Venice charge

[Hols4]

Hols4

Has anyone seen in the news today that Venice is bringing in a landing charge for short stay visitors and targeting cruise ship passengers from 2.50 euros up to 10 euros at peak times ?

[Zombatar]

Quite right too. They are the ones that can afford it. But of course it is the standard tourist tax that is charged in Rome  as well so pay your dues and enjoy the views. If you don't think this is fair then stay on the ship. Welcome to the 21st century.

[kruzseeka]

We paid a €4 p.p./night visitor tax staying in a hotel in Venice recently and more in Garda.  I suppose €10 isn't expensive as compared with entrance fees to visit attractions/sites of interest - and to me, Venice is one huge site of interest. I'd have no qualms about paying it as I feel very lucky to be able to go to this amazing city.  Yes it's crowded and expensive but away from St Mark's it's possible to buy reasonably priced coffees, iceceam and food so it doesn't need to be an exceptionally expensive day.  I often think of the cost of  going to the theatre, having a good meal out, the price of tickets for a concert,  football match etc. and €10 to 'get into' Venice for a whole day is a bargain comparatively.  And at least arriving on a cruise ship you are already there - it's possible to walk into the centre whereas some ports are distant from the main attraction (eg Civitavecchia for Rome, Livorno for Florence) that there's a often considerably more cost attached to just getting into these cities.  So for me a small price to pay to visit Venice especially in the context of the overall price of my holiday!

 

[fishnchips]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46721456

[Harry Peterson]

11 hours ago, Zombatar said:

Quite right too. They are the ones that can afford it. But of course it is the standard tourist tax that is charged in Rome  as well so pay your dues and enjoy the views. If you don't think this is fair then stay on the ship. Welcome to the 21st century.

Spot on.  It's a reasonable price to pay to visit the delights of Venice, given that cruise visitors spend so little by comparison with those who stay there.

 

 

[Scriv]

I don't blame them at all....  it's a small price to pay to visit such a beautiful old place and to help with its upkeep. They need to do something,  especially with the huge ships disgorging their thousands every day and the global problem of overtourism.

[Presto2]

To be honest we'd pay more --- but don't tell the Italians !

 

Worth every euro as long as the funds do go to the upkeep of this amazing place.

[thedriver23]

Sorry - I have to disagree.

 

I feel this could start a dangerous precident where other port location to start to charge.

 

As tourist the visitors are already putting extra money into the local economy - by paying for all the trips etc. 

 

Further the ship is already paying port fees.

 

It seems to me that tourist are just seen as a cash cow, where they are milked for as much as possible.

 

 

[john watson]

1 hour ago, thedriver23 said:

Sorry - I have to disagree.

 

I feel this could start a dangerous precedent where other port location to start to charge.

 

As tourist the visitors are already putting extra money into the local economy - by paying for all the trips etc. 

 

Further the ship is already paying port fees.

 

It seems to me that tourist are just seen as a cash cow, where they are milked for as much as possible.

 

 

 

In terms of other ports starting to charge.  My understanding that docking a ship anywhere results in a charge to the cruise line which they pass on to the passengers.  The amount of the charge varies enormously and certain ports are always oversubscribed in terms of how many cruise ships they can accommodate. There charges would be high.  Same applies to organised tours into cities and again places which are popular will want to restrict numbers to stop the place being ruined. Try driving into central London in your car. It is not helpful when cruise ships get larger as a small town can be overwhelmed by the tumult.  People coming into a tourist city might come in on coaches booked with somewhere unconnected with that city, drive in leaving hundreds of people walking about spending next to nothing and leave at the end.  Some cruise passengers wont even stop at a local restaurant as they have access to free food on board. Cruise passengers do not add a lot to the immediate local economy in many cases.  People staying in accommodation in that city are contributing in a significant way and cannot avoid city charges and need to buy food as they are staying longer. Their collective spend is much higher.

 

Excursion prices are high and the local operators do not get much of the take which is why booking independent excursions is much cheaper.  The passengers are a closed market to the cruise line which does not have to offer cut prices to a captive market.

 

Cruise lines dock at ports which they perceive are going to be attractive to passengers but they have to balance the port charges and any other charges to the passengers.  Too many ships try to stop at Venice and people still want to go there so that cruise could be easily sold, this is not true of lesser popular ports.

 

Regards John

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by john watson

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, thedriver23 said:

Sorry - I have to disagree.

 

I feel this could start a dangerous precident where other port location to start to charge.

 

As tourist the visitors are already putting extra money into the local economy - by paying for all the trips etc. 

 

Further the ship is already paying port fees.

 

It seems to me that tourist are just seen as a cash cow, where they are milked for as much as possible.

 

 

 

Many cities around the world already charge a tax on hotel rooms but it is normally just included in the price.  Some cruise pax contribute to the economy by spending quite a bit in a day but others just get off, walk around and then go back on board for lunch!  Most of the Port Fees go to the company that owns the port rather than into the local economy.

 

I would imagine that each ship will be charged on the basis of the number of pax aboard as it would be a nightmare to collect locally.  Amsterdam have also announced a similar tax.  The increasing numbers of people travelling - and on cruises in particular, the numbers arriving on one day - mean something has to be done to make tourism sustainable.

[Presto2]

Regarding excursions - I bet that the locals don't get much of that. We cruise with Celebrity and P&O and have done the exact same excursion with each company. Celebrity can be double the price for the same experience. Seems like it is the cruise lines that win out on any massive profits to be made from cruisers. Thinking of some of the main sites in the area, most churches are free, the Basilica most areas and the Doges Palace isn't expensive for admission. If we compare it to sites in the UK it is much cheaper.

 

I also see Venice as pretty unique. From what we have been told many locals leave and move on - there can't be that much money to be had staying put. Venice is a such an amazing place and I for one don't mind helping to maintain it for future generations. As I said, as long as the money we pay goes to the maintenance of the city and not in to someone's pocket I am happy… if you get my drift.

 

 

 

 

[kruzseeka]

And we did pay a daily tourist tax when we stayed there in a hotel this year and as already mentioned, as a tourist staying in the city, we bought meals and drinks out - with a daily spend far in excess of that as a cruise passenger to say nothing of the cost of the hotel.  Cruise passengers inundate cities like Venice and some passenger I agree will spend very little. 

I know of many passengers who by lunchtime are heading back to the ship for lunch rather then buy anything in port.  They take off again for the afternoon.  We'd never do that as we value our time exploring the culture, food and ambience of where we are visiting.  Not for me wasting a couple of hours ( as we see it) going back to the ship midday.  But each to their own!   

I'd still pay to get to spend a day in this fabulous city.  As for other cities following the example, at the end of the day it is supply and demand.  Those who want to see Venice will pay the tax and those who resent it presumably will stay away.  If it affects the city's income they may review their approach but somehow I doubt that will be necessary.  

[daiB]

We generally have a lunch when we go ashore but we do not have breakfast on that day. With me using a mobility scooter it is often easier when in warmer countries to have access to facilities as the cafe/restaurant is generally outside. 

 

We now now have a number of cafes we go to at ports we visit, including Venice after three visits looking for somewhere with reasonable prices.

[Eglesbrech]

I no longer enjoy a day in Venice and the massive groups of cruise ship tourists are a big part of that. It is a port of call I would now avoid where possible, along with the likes of Dubrovnik. I know that I am part of the problem as a cruiser however the success of cruising  means that lots of nice ports of call are now spoiled.

 

I first visited Venice when I was teenager and have been many times since. It has gone from being charming to being an expensive, crowded, tourist trap. While the main tourist areas were always expensive for coffee or a meal they are now a complete rip off. Even the side street cafes overcharge.

 

Charging a tourist tax will not stop the problem of having too many visitors. If they are serious, they should restrict the number of ships they allow to dock.

[Presto2]

8 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

Charging a tourist tax will not stop the problem of having too many visitors. If they are serious, they should restrict the number of ships they allow to dock.

 

Agree with limiting the number of ships. Same for Dubrovnik. We were on a cruise last year where we stayed over night and were looking forward to going in to the town at night. It was a nightmare and real disappointment - to say it was crowded is a massive understatement ! Never seen so many people anywhere before - including Venice ! We had once considered visiting Dubrovnik for a land based holiday - not a chance now. Even Venice was quieter late evening when we stayed there for 3 nights in August last year.

[Harry Peterson]

"On average, only about 30 per cent of the estimated 25 million people who flood the city annually stay for one night or more. But they account for around 70 per cent of tourism revenue, and for 100 per cent of tourist tax payments which amount to some €30 million per year.

The remaining 70 per cent of tourists are hit-and-run day-trippers, piling in on trains and being disgorged from immense cruise ships. They might buy a bottle of water, or pick up a souvenir which very possibly was produced somewhere in the Far East. They clog the narrow streets and pack the water-borne transit system to bursting point, generating rubbish, adding to the wear and tear on a delicate, extraordinary urban fabric and making life almost unbearable for any local who lives or works in the centro storico.

For this category of visitor, the pleasure has always come free of charge. The new tax on day visitors “will help us to run the city better,” tweeted a jubilant Mayor Luigi Brugnaro when the new legislation was announced. “We’ll come up with a fair, widely supported measure to protect all those who live, study and work here.”"

 

Says it all, really. 10 Euros is a minuscule price to pay to visit a city like Venice, which is being seriously damaged by the vast numbers of day visitors who contribute so little.

 

And I'd support any city (Amsterdam, for example) with similar problems and similar aspirations.  Cruising is great for those of us who can afford it, but let's not forget the environmental and other impacts.
 

[Scriv]

There's a lengthy article in The Observer this morning discussing the whys and wherefores of this suggestion and the views and reactions of the locals. Just for info.

[Eglesbrech]

There are a number of interesting newspaper articles about this. The city authorities have apparently also installed gates at two points in the city which are closed if numbers get too high in the centre. Only those who are resident with a pass or have a hotel booking get through.

 

So you could (in theory) go and not get into the centre or worse go and not be able to get back to the ship.

 

I feel sorry for the residents of Venice, it must be worse than Edinburgh in August and that is bad enough. 

 

 

[Denarius]

On 1/5/2019 at 4:59 PM, Presto2 said:

Agree with limiting the number of ships. Same for Dubrovnik

In the Travel supplement to Todays Sunday Times there is an article on the new Venice tax. In it it notes that Dubrovnik is to put a limit of two cruise ships in port on any one day. It does not say from when this will be effective. I can see other small picturesce cities and islands following suit.

[Presto2]

3 minutes ago, Denarius said:

In the Travel supplement to Todays Sunday Times there is an article on the new Venice tax. In it it notes that Dubrovnik is to put a limit of two cruise ships in port on any one day. It does not say from when this will be effective. I can see other small picturesce cities and islands following suit.

 

Looking back I think there were only 2 ships that evening any way ! We were on Celebrity Constellation and I think that there was a TUI ship in (one of the new Discovery ones?). I really think that some places need to limit how many ships call - it can't be doing them any good and must be a nightmare to actually live there !

[Scriv]

I'm sure I have read that Bergen were looking at restricting cruisers to 4000 a day... hmm, a bit hard if Iona wants to go there? Or any other cruise ship?

[daiB]

1 hour ago, Denarius said:

In the Travel supplement to Todays Sunday Times there is an article on the new Venice tax. In it it notes that Dubrovnik is to put a limit of two cruise ships in port on any one day. It does not say from when this will be effective. I can see other small picturesce cities and islands following suit.

 

Mmmmm I have seen 4/5 ships in at once. Some quite small. The worst part is the shuttle bus drop off point by the gated entrance. Once inside it’s not too bad.

[Presto2]

28 minutes ago, daiB said:

 

Mmmmm I have seen 4/5 ships in at once. Some quite small. The worst part is the shuttle bus drop off point by the gated entrance. Once inside it’s not too bad.

 

Honestly, when we were there in August it was horrific in the evening. I don't think we've ever been anywhere that was so crowded and that was inside the walls.

[daiB]

7 minutes ago, Presto2 said:

 

Honestly, when we were there in August it was horrific in the evening. I don't think we've ever been anywhere that was so crowded and that was inside the walls.

We tend to go late in the season. Would never consider August.

[Presto2]

7 minutes ago, daiB said:

We tend to go late in the season. Would never consider August.

 

Sadly, at the minute we have no choice due to the job. One day … we can only dream ;-)