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SeaDog-46

New Ice Class in force 1st Jan. 2018

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We’re doing a 16 day “drive by” cruise on the Coral Princess with 4 Antarctica cruising days in Jan 2021, but the 14 day Celebrity Eclipse (2 cruising Antarctica days) and HAL Westerdam (4 Antarctica cruising days) are also offering drive by cruises in Jan 2021.

 

I thought the big date was Jan 2022 when the drive by Antarctica cruises?

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1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

We’re doing a 16 day “drive by” cruise on the Coral Princess with 4 Antarctica cruising days in Jan 2021, but the 14 day Celebrity Eclipse (2 cruising Antarctica days) and HAL Westerdam (4 Antarctica cruising days) are also offering drive by cruises in Jan 2021.

 

I thought the big date was Jan 2022 when the drive by Antarctica cruises?

... would no longer be allowed if your ship was not Ice Class 6 certified?

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6 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

We’re doing a 16 day “drive by” cruise on the Coral Princess with 4 Antarctica cruising days in Jan 2021, but the 14 day Celebrity Eclipse (2 cruising Antarctica days) and HAL Westerdam (4 Antarctica cruising days) are also offering drive by cruises in Jan 2021.

 

I thought the big date was Jan 2022 when the drive by Antarctica cruises?

 

4 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

... would no longer be allowed if your ship was not Ice Class 6 certified?

That is the "final" drop dead date, but as each ship undergoes it's statutory drydocking between 2018 and 2022, it's new certificate of class prohibits the ship from operating south of 60*S and north of 60*N.  So, each ship has an individual date when it can no longer sail to polar regions.

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On 5/15/2019 at 8:59 PM, SeaDog-46 said:

For those interested in the 2007 sinking of Explorer [near the Antarctic peninsular]  - ex Lindblad Explorer built 1969 [38 years old] - see the final report from Liberian authorities online.

The master was critisised for going too fast in ice at night that had growlers in it.  

The vessel had had the port side shell plating replaced but the starboard side that was damaged was original plating.

They were very lucky with the weather.  3 of 4 lifeboat engines did not start & they were towed by Zodiacs.  Two other vessels were fairly near & assisted.  

 

Polar Star - also built in 1969 [42 years old] as a Swedish icebreaker - hit an uncharted rock in 2011 & limped to a research station to off load passengers.  The vessel went to Las Palmas for repairs where it has remained after owners went bust.

Charts of these Polar regions are not so accurate that vessels can go where it may look safe - new hazards may lurk waiting to hole a vessel.

Explorer-sinking 2007.jpg

 

 

 

I was on that ship in the mid-'80s when it was owned by Abercrombie & Kent and took another couple of trips in later years on

Professor Mulchenoy and Fram.  We are doing the Westerdam in 2020 with crossed fingers that everything goes well.

 

Most passengers aren't aware of just how extreme the weather, rough seas and conditions are down there. 

On the Fram trip, we lost all the deck matting off the bow and took a wave between South Georia and Antarctica to the underside of the bridge which ripped off paneling and broke pipes and wiring. That same trip, Le Boreal lost all power half way between the Faulklands and SGI in rough seas and when we got to Ushuaia, we parked beside the Quark Endeavor which had a big rip in the side from hitting ice between Antarctica and port.  They were extremely fortunate that the tear was above the waterline.

 

A large cruise ship with many elderly passengers will present horrendous problems in evacuating them and I can't think of much of anything worse than trying to board and survive in those "dinky" lifeboats in Antartica conditions:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDTbopUYg20

  

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7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

That is the "final" drop dead date, but as each ship undergoes it's statutory drydocking between 2018 and 2022, it's new certificate of class prohibits the ship from operating south of 60*S and north of 60*N.  So, each ship has an individual date when it can no longer sail to polar regions.

Just wanted to let folks know there were still plenty of time to do drive by cruises before the prices for the expedition cruises go through the roof. Also, I’m still curious how this is all going to play out after Jan 2022 since Azamara has a couple drive by cruises listed in Feb 2022 on their Pursuit. 

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Looks like X isn’t following the polar code. There is no way they are retrofitting a Solstice class vessel for ice class standards.  
 

Jan 30 and Feb 13 in 2022 they have released two Antarctic Itineraries.

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1 hour ago, rimmit said:

Looks like X isn’t following the polar code. There is no way they are retrofitting a Solstice class vessel for ice class standards.  
 

Jan 30 and Feb 13 in 2022 they have released two Antarctic Itineraries.


I think RCCL, who owns Celebrity and other lines, is going to try to push expedition cruisers to Silversea.   Silversea already has a small sub-fleet of ice class.  The Silver Wind will be modified later this year to meet ice class requirements and a whole purpose built Silver Origin will join the fleet next year.   

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But that doesn’t explain the “drive by” cruises in Jan/Feb 2022 both Azamara and Celebrity have now currently available. It will be interesting to see what HAL and Princess offer in another month or so once they list their Jan/Feb 2022 cruises. 

Edited by Ken the cruiser

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23 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

But that doesn’t explain the “drive by” cruises in Jan/Feb 2022 both Azamara and Celebrity have now currently available. It will be interesting to see what HAL and Princess offer in another month or so once they list their Jan/Feb 2022 cruises. 


I wonder if it’s a lack of enforceability.  X and Azamara are basically saying “fine me, or penalize us.  we’re not paying it and you can’t make us.”  

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Is this polar class change due to the stuff breaking off Antarctica Ice Shelf?  But that doesn't explain Greenland that's actually below 60°N, but it's added anyway.

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22 hours ago, knittinggirl said:

Is this polar class change due to the stuff breaking off Antarctica Ice Shelf?  But that doesn't explain Greenland that's actually below 60°N, but it's added anyway.

 

As I understand it, it is all areas north of the 60th parallel and south of 60th parallel.  Some countries, like parts of Greenland have a warming current so the ice classification requirement does not apply.  Do I have this right, Cheong?

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43 minutes ago, Tampa Girl said:

 

As I understand it, it is all areas north of the 60th parallel and south of 60th parallel.  Some countries, like parts of Greenland have a warming current so the ice classification requirement does not apply.  Do I have this right, Cheong?

I believe Iceland and Norway (above the 60th parallel) are exempt because of the Gulf Stream, but I had heard Greenland was not exempt.

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There are two 60th parallels of LATITUDE - north & south.

Greenland except for a small area is totally north of Lat. 60 N & is fully in the excluded area because the exclusion zone south of Cape Farewell is at 58N 042W - see diagram .  South of Greenland is a very dangerous place due to icebergs, fog & mixing currents plus Arctic storms.  The brand new Danish ice stengthened supply ship Hans Hedtoft sank on its maiden voyage in this area in 1959 with loss of all 95 passengers & crew onboard. See Wikipedia.

The Gulf Stream moves North North East from the Grand Banks & keeps Iceland, UK & Norway clear of sea ice.

Arctic-Polar Code.jpg

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On 11/17/2019 at 8:24 PM, rimmit said:


I wonder if it’s a lack of enforceability.  X and Azamara are basically saying “fine me, or penalize us.  we’re not paying it and you can’t make us.”  

No, because you are talking about a "certificate of class", which is a certificate of seaworthiness given by a third party surveyor, and without which the ship cannot obtain insurance, and is not allowed to enter ports, so essentially it is unable to sail at all.  I looked at the Eclipse, which is the ship scheduled for these two cruises, and it does have an older "Polar Class" certificate, but these generally only equate to the lowest Polar Code rating, which does not apply to passenger vessels.  Not sure if Celebrity's technical department is fully up on the new Polar Code, and are thinking the Polar Class certificate is still acceptable, since it does translate to a new Polar Code rating.

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15 hours ago, SeaDog-46 said:

There are two 60th parallels of LATITUDE - north & south.

Greenland except for a small area is totally north of Lat. 60 N & is fully in the excluded area because the exclusion zone south of Cape Farewell is at 58N 042W - see diagram .  South of Greenland is a very dangerous place due to icebergs, fog & mixing currents plus Arctic storms.  The brand new Danish ice stengthened supply ship Hans Hedtoft sank on its maiden voyage in this area in 1959 with loss of all 95 passengers & crew onboard. See Wikipedia.

The Gulf Stream moves North North East from the Grand Banks & keeps Iceland, UK & Norway clear of sea ice.

Arctic-Polar Code.jpg

 

17 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

I believe Iceland and Norway (above the 60th parallel) are exempt because of the Gulf Stream, but I had heard Greenland was not exempt.

 

You are right.  I was thinking of Iceland and wrote Greenland.  Sorry.

 

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Any updates on what basis Celebrity and Azamara are operating these cruises and if any other lines doing "drive-bys"  have found a similar exemption/loophole to do so in 2022?

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On 10/7/2019 at 9:33 AM, Woofbite said:

 

 

 

I was on that ship in the mid-'80s when it was owned by Abercrombie & Kent and took another couple of trips in later years on

Professor Mulchenoy and Fram.  We are doing the Westerdam in 2020 with crossed fingers that everything goes well.

 

Most passengers aren't aware of just how extreme the weather, rough seas and conditions are down there. 

On the Fram trip, we lost all the deck matting off the bow and took a wave between South Georia and Antarctica to the underside of the bridge which ripped off paneling and broke pipes and wiring. That same trip, Le Boreal lost all power half way between the Faulklands and SGI in rough seas and when we got to Ushuaia, we parked beside the Quark Endeavor which had a big rip in the side from hitting ice between Antarctica and port.  They were extremely fortunate that the tear was above the waterline.

 

A large cruise ship with many elderly passengers will present horrendous problems in evacuating them and I can't think of much of anything worse than trying to board and survive in those "dinky" lifeboats in Antartica conditions:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDTbopUYg20

  

Just watched this on TV last night, they are very lucky every one got off. I can't imagine what it must of been like in those open life boats for I think they said 5 hours.

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On 3/25/2019 at 8:09 PM, knittinggirl said:

We're doing the November 27, 2020 from Santiago to Buenos Aires that also includes the eclipse.   

 

 

Knitting girl,

Your booking sounds fabulous.  Congrats

 

.

 

Is Veendam certified  Like  the R class ships mentioned   here  ?

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