Can Oceania survive Viking Ocean?

[UDSpud]

[docmark]

2 minutes ago, UDSpud said:

 

Try to be a little more "informative", title without any reasons/observations not very helpful 

[UDSpud]

Due to the large number of new ships ( six and counting ) that Viking has, or will have, I am raising the question of competition. 

 

Viking does not seem to be a corporate subsidiary cruise line ( although I am not sure of how connected it is with Viking River cruises).

Having seen what Carnival Inc. did to Holland American a few years back, I fear what Norwegian Inc. could do to Oceania during the next US or worldwide recession.  This board seems to have all ready had many complaints recently about "cost cutting" and added "nickel and diming" on Oceania.

 

Sorry that this thread explanation was not included with the thread title.

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

OP: certainly you're joking.

Viking aspires to be like Oceania but will be lucky if, ultimately, it only manages to get compared to Celebrity. 

The Oceania NEXT comprehensive update of the four R ships (over the next year) and the addition of two new (first ever) Allura Class ships in 2021 and 2025 will cement Oceania's role as the prime mover in "ultra premium" cruising. 

At best, with its reportedly mediocre attempt at good food, Viking would do better to try to match Azamara.

 

[UDSpud]

Thanks to Flatbush Flyer for the earlier response.   I made an effort to consider a future drop in demand coupled with the increased supply (ie Viking ship count growth).  One other question.  If Oceania's role can be considered "... the prime mover in "ultra premium" cruising...", then what does Norwegian corporate consider Regent to be ?

 

Again, thanks to any and all who comment as I react to:

1) lots of Viking mail

2) lots of Oceania CC threads on tipping, children, old people, shore excursions and the decline of the "R" ships.

 

[Paulchili]

21 minutes ago, UDSpud said:

Due to the large number of new ships ( six and counting ) that Viking has, or will have, I am raising the question of competition. 

Quantity is not the same as quality.

Will do our first Viking Ocean in May - can comment more specifically afterwards but I don't think Viking Ocean spells doom for Oceania.

[ano]

Since there seems to be many cruise lines currently and very few have gone out of business, I wouldn't believe any one would put another out of business easily. Maybe you could give some other examples where that has happened. If Oceania felt it was in serious jeopardy, what's stopping it from copying Viking?  Adding perks like free excursions isn't hard to copy.

 

Oceania is just one brand of Norweigian, so are you saying Norweigian Cruise Lines is in trouble? How about Regent, also owned by Norweigian?  

 

I would imagine its very hard to put a cruise company out of business due to competition. They just drop prices, and sure enough, customers will arrive.  By the way, Norweigian just reported earnings and its on very solid footing.

 

The number of ships and capacity is growing faster than customers, so if the economy tanks, and it does look like its heading in that direction, you may see some go under, but my guess is Norweigian, Carnival, and Royal Caribbean won't be among them. 

[LHT28]

can you tell me  what the nickel & diming  are on Oceania ?

I think over the years they have become more inclusive of things  EG  they used to charge  for bottled water, sodas  & photos

now  no photographers to hound you

bottled water & sodas included

If you drink alcohol  that was always  extra along with excursions & spa treatments

 

as for Viking   they do not appeal to me on many levels

JMO

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, LHT28 said:

as for Viking   they do not appeal to me on many levels

JMO

I certainly resent their policy of requiring full payment 12 months ahead. I was able to change it to 6 months but I understand that they no longer allow that.

I guess they need the cash to pay for all those new ships.

[GeezerCouple]

5 hours ago, Paulchili said:

I certainly resent their policy of requiring full payment 12 months ahead. I was able to change it to 6 months but I understand that they no longer allow that.

I guess they need the cash to pay for all those new ships.

 

DH has been asking about Viking (not sure why; probably the pretty pictures in the ads )

But full payment 12 mos in advance?  What is the cancellation policy?  Is it all non-refundable at that point?

 

Thanks.

GC

[sitraveler]

As someone who has been in both, Viking has an inferior product when you actually compare both.  Their included tours are brutal, often just a bus tour.  Their food tries, but is not up to Oceania.  Their customer service is terrible.  Some of Vikings itineraries are outstanding and different and their decor is modern, their bathrooms wonderful.  But lack of solo pricing, prohibition of children, and early payment policy leaves them off my radar.  They have forced O to make several changes for the better. O life, modernization of the ships, non bottled water.  O is doing well.

[RJB]

I guess we will have to try them sometime just to compare their product to O.  Some friends of ours have given them some very high marks but we will need to see for ourselves.  Would be nice to have more choices. 

[LHT28]

12 minutes ago, RJB said:

I guess we will have to try them sometime just to compare their product to O.  Some friends of ours have given them some very high marks but we will need to see for ourselves.  Would be nice to have more choices. 

lots of  choices out there & more on the way

Ritz-Carleton

Virgin Cruises

 

[Paulchili]

4 hours ago, GeezerCouple said:

But full payment 12 mos in advance?  What is the cancellation policy?  Is it all non-refundable at that point?

It’s a sliding scale:

https://www.vikingcruises.com/terms-conditions/index.html

[sammiedawg]

9 hours ago, Paulchili said:

I certainly resent their policy of requiring full payment 12 months ahead. I was able to change it to 6 months but I understand that they no longer allow that.

I guess they need the cash to pay for all those new ships.

 

I am amazed people are willing to pay in full a year in advance.  Both of our Viking trips were booked close to sailing date at a significant discount.  But late bookings won’t  work for exotics or anything requiring a visa.  So I don’t spend much time reading their mailings.

Viking has a nice product that is a step up from mass market lines.  Passengers are thrilled with the freebies- bottled water, wine with meals, an included tour at each port.  Their ships are beautiful and we loved their two specialty restaurants.    But Oceania beats them in the most important aspects - food, service and ship comfort.  Spend five minutes at the Viking pool deck and you will wish you were on Oceania.  

 

[GeezerCouple]

26 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

It’s a sliding scale:

https://www.vikingcruises.com/terms-conditions/index.html

 

Thanks.

 

Aside from the long advance that they hold the full amount, it's not that different from others.

 

We were more upset with Hurtigruten.  For those, we need to book much further in advance, as there are *very* limited suites on most of the suites.  And their deposit was 20%.  A year or two ago, there was a $350 cancellation penalty pp, no matter how far in advance.  But that wasn't harsh enough; they switched that to losing the entire deposit from the date it was made, even if, say, 2 years in advance.  (Even with CFAR insurance [Cancel For Any Reason], one would lose 25% of that amount, plus the amount of a higher starting insurance cost.)

 

When we have refundable deposits, if we need to cancel, which does happen when we make reservations really far in advance, I just consider it a portion of the travel budget pre-paid/set aside.  Of course, if interest rates keep going up... This was less of a concern when the money "sitting there" wasn't earning much of anything...  But it still doesn't add up to that much.  We consider it "the price" to select accommodations of choice, and sometimes to get better rates or specials (which does make sense).

 

GC

[orchestrapal]

2 hours ago, sammiedawg said:

 

I am amazed people are willing to pay in full a year in advance.  Both of our Viking trips were booked close to sailing date at a significant discount.  But late bookings won’t  work for exotics or anything requiring a visa.  So I don’t spend much time reading their mailings.

Viking has a nice product that is a step up from mass market lines.  Passengers are thrilled with the freebies- bottled water, wine with meals, an included tour at each port.  Their ships are beautiful and we loved their two specialty restaurants.    But Oceania beats them in the most important aspects - food, service and ship comfort.  Spend five minutes at the Viking pool deck and you will wish you were on Oceania.  

 

For the most part we found the food excellent on Viking.

The service was amazing from day one.

Everyone knew our names and our steward was as good as any  butler we have had on O. The suite was fantastic and compadred favorably to the OS on O with the exception that it did to hav a powder room. Viking is putting out a very good product and

we hope O (our 14-15th) Riviera in the fall will wow us.

[Jancruz]

With all the changes and additions O is making I think the question should be can Viking survive Oceania..

Jancruz1

[RJB]

4 minutes ago, Jancruz said:

With all the changes and additions O is making I think the question should be can Viking survive Oceania..

Jancruz1

Too bad some of the change include taking away some of the loyalty perks that we had before.  Not a good thing for O to do at this time with all the new ships coming on line in  the next few years. 

[wripro]

Why does one have to survive the other? Let's hope they both survive and continue to offer us options.

[golfguyhhi]

RJB,

 

I really studied the Viking website, but I was unable to determine the details of the Viking Loyalty Program.  Perhaps you could share with us what you know of what they offer?  I would be interested in comparing their program to Oceania's.

[sitraveler]

11 minutes ago, golfguyhhi said:

RJB,

 

I really studied the Viking website, but I was unable to determine the details of the Viking Loyalty Program.  Perhaps you could share with us what you know of what they offer?  I would be interested in comparing their program to Oceania's.

Nothing like O's.

[RJB]

6 minutes ago, golfguyhhi said:

RJB,

 

I really studied the Viking website, but I was unable to determine the details of the Viking Loyalty Program.  Perhaps you could share with us what you know of what they offer?  I would be interested in comparing their program to Oceania's.

Having never sailed with Viking I have no idea it they even have a program.  That being said with all the new ships coming on line ( Viking will have 16 ships in a  few years) and Virgin with 3 I think it seems a pretty bad Idea to take away something we already have. We have been a pretty loyal  group and they are not being  loyal to us.  Looks like a one way street when they will need their old customers the most.   Love O, but it makes me think if we need to try something else that we might not of if they kept the old program in place. Don't know. 

[keithm]

18 hours ago, ano said:

Since there seems to be many cruise lines currently and very few have gone out of business, I wouldn't believe any one would put another out of business easily. Maybe you could give some other examples where that has happened. If Oceania felt it was in serious jeopardy, what's stopping it from copying Viking?  Adding perks like free excursions isn't hard to copy.

 

Oceania is just one brand of Norweigian, so are you saying Norweigian Cruise Lines is in trouble? How about Regent, also owned by Norweigian?  

 

I would imagine its very hard to put a cruise company out of business due to competition. They just drop prices, and sure enough, customers will arrive.  By the way, Norweigian just reported earnings and its on very solid footing.

 

The number of ships and capacity is growing faster than customers, so if the economy tanks, and it does look like its heading in that direction, you may see some go under, but my guess is Norweigian, Carnival, and Royal Caribbean won't be among them. 

Not really sure Oceania is a "brand" of Norwegian. Most people heard of Norwegian "buying" Oceania/Regent. From what I read, it was the holding co. that owns Oceania/Regent(Apollo mgt.)That actually bought out Norwegian. I just hope they continue to keep them separate.

[bob brown]

At this point in time, there seems to be very little “synergy” between three NCLH lines.

Just at the top corporate levels so far.

Each line is still pretty independent in their management and product.  Perhaps some savings in bulk purchasing...

 

You can get your shareholder OBC on any, so there is at least that.😎

Edited February 11, 2019 by bob brown