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39 minutes ago, killsport said:

 Yes, just like they can do at many land resorts where food is included. In Mexico. In Bali. In Costa Rica. In the Dominican Republic.

Just like they can on competing cruise lines. On Celebrity. On Princess.

 

Celebrity and Princess can meet their own bottom line anyway they want. If those who continue to demand unlimited food, including unlimited food hours which both those ships offer, then they have found their favored cruise lines.

 

HAL does not need to compete with either of them and should not let their dining free for alls set the standard practices on their own ships. Time for HAL to get out of this spinning squirrel wheel  competition with either Princess or Celebrity - let HAL carve out its own niche for travellers who can and do survive, knowing it is reasonable to expect moderation in all things offered while onboard.

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27 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Unfortunately, HAL really isn't interested in varied interpretations of what is fair, only in what is good for their bottom line.

 

Keeping control on costs, which therefore allows keeping control over entry cruise prices, is now a bad thing?

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4 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

Celebrity and Princess can meet their own bottom line anyway they want....

 

HAL does not need to compete with either of them...

 

You believe this? 

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I completely agree with this comment by cruisemom42 - "(Plus I have never yet had a land-based restaurant charge me for a phantom table-mate's food costs if I am dining solo...)"

 

I now travel solo in my own cabin with my two sons, but I pay the same as if 2 people were in my cabin with me. Do I get a rebate for the entree that non-existent person is not ordering - no. But if this policy goes fleet wide if I want a second entree for any reason (first one tasted fairly bad and didn't finish, I want to switch out the steak for lobster, etc.) I will have to pay $10 for it. That just doesn't sit right with me.

 

And you read those "live from..." threads and almost everyone is mentioning ordering a second entree for the table to share, or for two people to split, or to add another protein. Those people aren''t wasting food - the alleged reason for this policy.  I wonder if policy exceptions will be made by the Food and Beverage Manager for certain cruises or certain cruisers. 

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I find this entire thread, funny beyond belief.     It all, really boils down to CHANGE   People do not like change.   and find every every reason under the sun to oppose change., math , philosophy, you name it.      Anything and everything to prove a position

For decades the cruise lines have offered a  what the Germans  called" fressing"  eating 24/7 on cruise ships from pre- breakfasts to mid night buffets...  an orgy of food.         Now they want to stop it....  they see it is  overall un sustainable.  Its not a diabolical plot to get you, steal your last dollar, or corporate greed.  its reality.     

Simply pointed our no restaurant  anyone goes to would you expect anything near what you have gotten on a cruise... You can not argue that.

So, its change, just like any other change.. you don't have to agree with it  but that will not prevent change from happening.

Take a deep breath and relax, there are going to be a great many more changes in your  years to come, and you can not stop them.

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8 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

I find this entire thread, funny beyond belief.     It all, really boils down to CHANGE   People do not like change.   and find every every reason under the sun to oppose change., math , philosophy, you name it.      Anything and everything to prove a position

For decades the cruise lines have offered a  what the Germans  called" fressing"  eating 24/7 on cruise ships from pre- breakfasts to mid night buffets...  an orgy of food.         Now they want to stop it....  they see it is  overall un sustainable.  Its not a diabolical plot to get you, steal your last dollar, or corporate greed.  its reality.     

Simply pointed our no restaurant  anyone goes to would you expect anything near what you have gotten on a cruise... You can not argue that.

So, its change, just like any other change.. you don't have to agree with it  but that will not prevent change from happening.

Take a deep breath and relax, there are going to be a great many more changes in your  years to come, and you can not stop them.

 

The difference between fressen and essen is something it appears only the Germans appreciate. Tierfutter für alles Cruise Lines.

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9 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

The difference between fressen and essen is something it appears only the Germans appreciate. Tierfutter für alles Cruise Lines.

Richtig....sehr richtig...................  Spater Herr Alt Salz u.

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3 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

 

We probably agree about the loss of formal nights; just got tired trying to sweep back the sea on this topic. Glad I knew it when.

Well, we are part of an endangered species. At one time this used to be a hotly debated subject but not so much anymore as most lines have abandoned formal. There is no question, most guests appear to prefer no formal nights at all, roughly 70% do and 30% want to keep it. One interesting observation here though is that 30% in favor might assure that at least a few lines keep formal. Why? Look at the smoking issue, HAL stuck with balcony smoking when all the rest of the North American majors forbid it and they stuck with it for at least four years, this occurred when only 8% of the HAL faithful smoked. Albeit, after they were the only game in town more smokers booked them.

 

For us, Formal hearkens back to the days of yore, days of romantic ocean travel which some yearn for the return thereof.

 

We have only cruised on HAL, Princess and Regent. No more HAL for us and for a bit we were not sure what Princess was going to do, but they have held fast and provide excellent formal nights, which we just experienced for a month ending at the end of 2018.

 

Regent went the casual route, however they are a little different due to their ample number of tables for two in every venue allowing one to feel a little bit more comfortable dressing up regardless of the dress code. But, we were on Regent in October and November.  I was surprised to find that even on non-formal nights many guests still dressed up for dinner in defiance of their lax dress code. Made me feel like a slob one casual night, which was rare. We made up for it though.

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2 hours ago, RDC1 said:

Actually the requirements for formal nights on Princess are very similar to that for HAL.  A pair of slacks and a collared shirt is all one needs on Princess these days.

That is pretty much true, however, some of these cruise lines play coy with their dress language. They like to appear to have the best of both worlds. As far as I can determine, the only two left standing are Princess and Cunard. Been years since we have been on HAL, but do a lot of Princess and some on Regent. HAL even dropped the term "Formal". We have been on Princess for close to three months over the last year or so, Pacific Princess, they definitely have formal, no mistake about it.
 
HAL---"has mostly "resort casual" evenings along with a formal option. The line calls its formal nights "gala nights," and its formal dress includes a dark suit, tuxedo or jacket and tie for men, and cocktail dress, gown or dressy pantsuit for women.

Resort casual attire includes collared shirts and slacks for men (with a jacket and tie preferred) and dresses, skirts or slacks for women in all fine dining restaurants. Swimsuits and other pool wear, men's tank tops and shorts are not allowed in any of the restaurants during the evening hours. Jeans are OK, so long as they're not distressed, with the exception of gala nights, when they're restricted to the buffet." 

 

PRINCESS----" has formal and smart-casual nights. Formal attire is tuxedos, dinner jackets or dark suits for men and evening gowns, cocktail dresses or elegant pantsuits for women. Smart-casual attire includes pants and open-neck shirts for men and skirts or dresses, slacks and sweaters for women.

In the dining rooms, items such as shorts, pool wear and baseball caps are not permitted; shoes must be worn at all times. Jeans are permitted as long as they aren't fraying and don't have holes.

Number of Formal Nights: Five- to six-night cruises have one formal evening, seven- to 13-night cruises have two, 14- to 20-night cruises have three, 21- to 28-night cruises have four and cruises of 29 nights or more have a minimum of five. Short voyages (four nights or less) have a "dress to impress" night -- not technically a formal night, but a notch above daywear."

 

Some argue that on formal nights you can get by dressing casual in a specialty. One night we witnessed where a dude got bounced from the Crown Grill due to sub-standard dress, Polo shirt which is a collared T-shirt--- occurred on the Caribbean Princess in October a couple of years ago. Not a happy camper was he. Another thing they did then, when you called for reservations in a specialty on a formal night, they reminded you that it was a formal night and they couldn't accommodate you if you didn't agree with the dress stipulation.

 
After the cruise, I mentioned this happening on a pertinent C.C. thread, nobody else had heard of such, and we hadn't either before that. Having said that, we were on the Regal not long afterward on a low quality meal in the MDR Caribbean cruise and ate dinner six times in Sabatini's and Crown Grill, three nights when formal, there were some folk dressed in Hawaiian shirts and polo shirts in there then. Not us.

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Posted (edited)

I'm sure the crowd that thinks it's ridiculous , ridiculous that anyone would want a second entree is the same crowd that was furious , furious that HAL cut ballroom dancing and hosted bridge . We all have our own cruise essentials  😮

Edited by richstowe

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2 hours ago, kennicott said:
That is pretty much true, however, some of these cruise lines play coy with their dress language. They like to appear to have the best of both worlds. As far as I can determine, the only two left standing are Princess and Cunard. Been years since we have been on HAL, but do a lot of Princess and some on Regent. HAL even dropped the term "Formal". We have been on Princess for close to three months over the last year or so, Pacific Princess, they definitely have formal, no mistake about it.
 
HAL---"has mostly "resort casual" evenings along with a formal option. The line calls its formal nights "gala nights," and its formal dress includes a dark suit, tuxedo or jacket and tie for men, and cocktail dress, gown or dressy pantsuit for women.

Resort casual attire includes collared shirts and slacks for men (with a jacket and tie preferred) and dresses, skirts or slacks for women in all fine dining restaurants. Swimsuits and other pool wear, men's tank tops and shorts are not allowed in any of the restaurants during the evening hours. Jeans are OK, so long as they're not distressed, with the exception of gala nights, when they're restricted to the buffet." 

 

PRINCESS----" has formal and smart-casual nights. Formal attire is tuxedos, dinner jackets or dark suits for men and evening gowns, cocktail dresses or elegant pantsuits for women. Smart-casual attire includes pants and open-neck shirts for men and skirts or dresses, slacks and sweaters for women.

In the dining rooms, items such as shorts, pool wear and baseball caps are not permitted; shoes must be worn at all times. Jeans are permitted as long as they aren't fraying and don't have holes.

Number of Formal Nights: Five- to six-night cruises have one formal evening, seven- to 13-night cruises have two, 14- to 20-night cruises have three, 21- to 28-night cruises have four and cruises of 29 nights or more have a minimum of five. Short voyages (four nights or less) have a "dress to impress" night -- not technically a formal night, but a notch above daywear."

 

Some argue that on formal nights you can get by dressing casual in a specialty. One night we witnessed where a dude got bounced from the Crown Grill due to sub-standard dress, Polo shirt which is a collared T-shirt--- occurred on the Caribbean Princess in October a couple of years ago. Not a happy camper was he. Another thing they did then, when you called for reservations in a specialty on a formal night, they reminded you that it was a formal night and they couldn't accommodate you if you didn't agree with the dress stipulation.

 
After the cruise, I mentioned this happening on a pertinent C.C. thread, nobody else had heard of such, and we hadn't either before that. Having said that, we were on the Regal not long afterward on a low quality meal in the MDR Caribbean cruise and ate dinner six times in Sabatini's and Crown Grill, three nights when formal, there were some folk dressed in Hawaiian shirts and polo shirts in there then. Not us.

HAL certainly do NOT “prefer” jackets with ties on casual nights 😏

 

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18 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

HAL is a aggressively going after a younger demographic now and trying to move Carnival passenger up to higher priced cruise lines in the family.

The only reason we are on HAL next week it was $1700 cheaper then carnival and $2100 cheaper then Royal Caribbean and $3200 cheaper then disney 

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5 hours ago, J4NEC said:

I don’t understand why there is all this indignation.  Who would dream of ordering two main courses? 

A teenager who eats more then 4 bites if protien, who doesnt want to go to multiple venues to eat and likes a sit down dinner, and exploring new foods

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5 hours ago, Windsailer said:

I completely agree with this comment by cruisemom42 - "(Plus I have never yet had a land-based restaurant charge me for a phantom table-mate's food costs if I am dining solo...)"

 

I now travel solo in my own cabin with my two sons, but I pay the same as if 2 people were in my cabin with me. Do I get a rebate for the entree that non-existent person is not ordering - no. But if this policy goes fleet wide if I want a second entree for any reason (first one tasted fairly bad and didn't finish, I want to switch out the steak for lobster, etc.) I will have to pay $10 for it. That just doesn't sit right with me.

 

And you read those "live from..." threads and almost everyone is mentioning ordering a second entree for the table to share, or for two people to split, or to add another protein. Those people aren''t wasting food - the alleged reason for this policy.  I wonder if policy exceptions will be made by the Food and Beverage Manager for certain cruises or certain cruisers. 

 

I am sorry.....I am missing something.   Your complaining because you have to pay for 2.    I got that.    However. YOU+1 son+1 son = 3 people  and your mad because  you paid for 2.        Yet there are 3 of you, right ?        I dont get it....   

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

 

I am sorry.....I am missing something.   Your complaining because you have to pay for 2.    I got that.    However. YOU+1 son+1 son = 3 people  and your mad because  you paid for 2.        Yet there are 3 of you, right ?        I dont get it....   

Im assuming the boys are in a cabin, and shes in her own cabin, so she would pay single supplement for her cabin

 

 

Edited by Jareds_mommytoo

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Correct. I have my own cabin and the boys have their own cabin. And I pay the same as they do. 

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35 minutes ago, Windsailer said:

Correct. I have my own cabin and the boys have their own cabin. And I pay the same as they do. 

 

That was your choice up front, was it not?

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4 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

That was your choice up front, was it not?

It was her choice to pay double for the cabin, but for the cruise line to charge her for a 2nd entree on top of that is unconscionable. 

 

Roz 

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2 hours ago, Jareds_mommytoo said:

A teenager who eats more then 4 bites if protien, who doesnt want to go to multiple venues to eat and likes a sit down dinner, and exploring new foods

I’m not judging, I’m just surprised it’s an issue, Id never have thought of ordering 2 mains, but I can see if youre very hungry and it’s an accepted practice, then go ahead.

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So to those posters who have no issue with the charge for a second entree:

 

You go to your fav restaurant. This time, your entree has significantly reduced volume of food - previously 12 shrimps in Cajun Shrimp Dianne for example- now it is reduced to 6 shrimp.

 

You are ok with paying the same price for a reduced product - Right?

 

You adore the reduction in the product offering, you love it, no complaints, you willingly pay the same price for a reduced entree. Would never complain to the restaurant? All is perfect. You love it.

 

You support HAL in reducing options to the customer. Right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, RDC1 said:

Actually the requirements for formal nights on Princess are very similar to that for HAL.  A pair of slacks and a collared shirt is all one needs on Princess these days.

Lots of people dressed formally on the two formal nights, on Caribbean Princess a couple weeks ago.  In fact, next time I’m on a Princess cruise I’ll probably bring a black sport coat and white shirt, as well as a tie.  (On HAL I feel fine with a sport coat and dress shirt of any color, or even just slacks and polo.)

Edited by SetAnOpenCourse

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39 minutes ago, ABoatNerd said:

So to those posters who have no issue with the charge for a second entree:

 

You go to your fav restaurant. This time, your entree has significantly reduced volume of food - previously 12 shrimps in Cajun Shrimp Dianne for example- now it is reduced to 6 shrimp.

 

You are ok with paying the same price for a reduced product - Right?

 

You adore the reduction in the product offering, you love it, no complaints, you willingly pay the same price for a reduced entree. Would never complain to the restaurant? All is perfect. You love it.

 

You support HAL in reducing options to the customer. Right?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Love it, but you do know that for certain cheerleaders and for some companies, common sense and what’s right has no skin in the game? 😉 

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On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 2:25 PM, Bostonjetset said:

...A rule I’ve always tried to live by in my professional life is to under promise and over deliver. HAL is doing exactly the opposite with this move.  The advertising shows a glamorous ocean voyage on a refined ship and the onboard experience of charging $10 for an extra lamb chop or whatever does not fit with that.  Of course ads are meant to offer an idealized view and most people get that. However, over promising and under delivering for too long is a fast way to make people look elsewhere.  

 

This post, from a couple of pages back, made a very good point. Thanks, Bostonjetset. Yet, as Kazu noted, the "cheerleaders" will never agree. For some reason they will defend every cutback to the end. One that made me laugh out loud was a reference above to the effect that HAL was trying to position itself to be the line of "moderation". Huh? A cruise-line, pitching moderation to the masses on vacation?  I guess that would then include alcohol consumption--oops, no, that would cut into profit.

 

Really, the things that some people write to try to justify an unjustifiable decision...  

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HAL could save lots of money by not printing and delivering advertising sheets for spa treatments, jewelry, etc. The must be dozens delivered to each cabin every week. Would also help the environment.

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