Jeans, Hat & Full Quills

[nicenspicy]

My husband and I are on opposite ends on this one: he thinks that since wearing nice starched jeans, a starched button up, full quill boots & a COWBOY hat is "formal" in Texas that it should be allowed as (at least) informal on the ship. PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE tell me he is wrong. We are crusing on Celebrity Millennium for 7 nights.

[hajekfam]

What cruiseline?

I can't comment on other lines, but on Celebrity according to their daily, jeans are not permitted in the dining room at any time. And I know there was a discussion of cowboy hats in the past, but I was always taught that hats on men are not worn indoors.

[Cruise Arizona]

First you need to tell us which cruise line you are on and where you are departing.

 

NCL departures from Galveston are the only cruises as far as I know that allow for "Western" informal/casual with the jeans and startched shirt.

 

I live in AZ and moved here from TX. So I am familiar with this attire and know that it is often appropriate business attire in both states.

 

However, a cruise ship, in general has different standards. Most cruise line specify "No Jeans in the Diningroom." Look in your travel brochure, or online at your cruises web site for the details.

 

The reason for this is that cruise ship dining is a more elegant experience than even most nice restuarants that we dine at when we are home. Food isn't nessisarily better, just fancier, service is full serivce more attentive ect. Waiters wear tuedoes on the formal nights.

 

So, for most cruise lines, a pairt of dockers are the approiate item to wear other than jeans for the casual, smart casual, or informal nights.(Usually with jacket on "Smart Casual" or informal. On formal nights, a dark suit or tux. (if husband wants to keep the western look, there are very elegant western tuxes avaiable at places like Western Warhouse.)

 

You don't have to spend a lot of money if he doen't already have these in his wardrobe. You can even get the wrinkle risitant, staint proof no name dockers at Walmart for under $20.

 

Now with all that said, you will, see people dressed in what you described.

 

Please see my next post for the answer to your hat questions.

[Cruise Arizona]

Not being a hat etiquette expert myself, I decided to research the subject of where and when it is considered appropriate to wear a hat.

I went to 4 different web sites to see if I could get a concensus on where and when it is appropriate to wear a hat.

Recent history of hat ettiquette

In general the rule has been that a man should always remove his hat. For women the rules were often just the opposite. Traditionally womens hat were often pinned on or really part of her hair do. It would be impractical and belittling for a woman to remove all her pins and displace her hair do. Women also for a long time required to wear a head covering in a Christian place of worship. So for many years the rule was that a man must remove his hat when entering a building, while a woman could leave her’s on or even be required to don a head covering.

John F. Kennedy was the first many of prominence not to wear a hat when he ventured out doors. And since his presidency, men no longer consider a hat an important part of business attire. That has more become a casual fashion statement, such as a ball cap, trucker hat or cowboy hat. Women’s hair styles have become more simplified, and hat styles have become more unisex. In the middle of all this it has become increasingly unclear as to when and wear is the proper time to wear a hat.

The rules of hat etiquette date back to Victorian times, a times when having good manners was never more important. The rules of those days stated the following:

A man should always remove his hat indoors especially when entering a church, restaurant, theater, or courtroom.

However even by strict Victorian standards there were exceptions to this rule. You’ll note the practicality of these exceptions. They are generally pass through areas, or an area where one’s hand might be in use, and therefore unable to hold one’s hat.

A man need not romove his hat in:

1. Certain public building such as a post office or train station,

2. The main parlor area of a saloon or general store

3. While seated at a lunch Counter of a diner of café

4. In entrance halls or Corridors of office buildings, or hotels.

5. In an elevator, unless a woman is present.

6. If carrying packages or bags and both hands are occupied upon entry.

7. If the man is a performer and the hat is bing worn as part of a costume or performance.

The whole ideas is that one removes their hat when they are in a more personal intimate setting to show respect for other around them. In a home the host should be respected, and hence one removes their hat. Dining at a restarant is considered an intimate experience with one’s table mates, hence the hat should not be worn. However, when dining at a lunch counter, one generally dines alone, so this is not considered an intimate experience, so the diner can leave his hat on. Hallways and saloons are not considered intimate spaces, but public places, and hence one may leave their hat on.

For women the rules have changed slightly. If a woman wears a traditionally feminine hat that is pinned on, or so intricate that it would be hard to remove, then the old rules apply. A woman may also still wear a hat in church or at a funeral if it is a traditionally feminine style. However, if the hat is a unisex style like a ball cap or a cowboy hat, then she should follow the men’s rules.

The other area that has become a little grey in the last 50 years is ball caps worn for casual dining. People go to sports bars wearing a cap from their favorite team. Or maybe they have been out and about running errands in their ball cap all day long. When they stop at a fast food place or a casual dining restaurant most people do not revoe their hats because they would have really really bad hat hair. So for the most part wearing a hat a casual dining place has become acceptable. People should understand that if the restaurant serves their food on a fine table cloth, with fine china and silver, and crystal glasses, this is a fine dining establishment, not a causual dining venue, and hence even though the dress codes might be casual, the atmosphere is definitely not appropriate for hats at the table.

So how does all of this apply to a cruise ship. Here’s the cruise ship equivalent of the traditional hat rules:

One should never, never, never where a hat in the formal dining room. Again even though the dress codes might be casual, the atmosphere is definitely still formal.

Post office, Train Station, Main Parlor of a General Store, = not really a exact equivalent here, but you could probably equate the purser’s desk, and the shopping areas to these areas.

 

http://www.bcvc.net/hats/index.htm

 

 

http://www.askandyaboutclothes.com/...ts_and_caps.htm

 

Hats are removed when inside, except for places that are akin to public streets, like lobbies, corridors, and crowded elevators (non-residential). In a public building (where there are no apartments) the elevator is considered a public area.

 

And from:

 

http://www.theldom.com/askthelma/column/20040921.html

 

 

http://www.western-cowboy-hats.com/...-etiquette.html

 

 

Whenever you enter a building, you should remove your hat. If it is an informal event you may put the hat back on again, however it should be left off if it is a formal event.

 

Although I love cowboys and cowboy hats, it doesn't seem to be considered proper to wear them during formal dinner, However if your husband insist, you can make him eat at the Bar (kind of a lunch counter) or just have him sing a few songs with the musicians in the dinning room.

 

And as long as he stays in the hallways, and Lobby (Artrium) of the cruise ship, he can leave his hat on all night too. Just don't take the elevator.

 

[nicenspicy]

You are awesome! Thanks so much!:D

[caviargal]

My husband and I are on opposite ends on this one: he thinks that since wearing nice starched jeans, a starched button up, full quill boots & a COWBOY hat is "formal" in Texas that it should be allowed as (at least) informal on the ship. PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE tell me he is wrong. We are crusing on Celebrity Millennium for 7 nights.

 

Celebrity is a more formal line and requests no jeans in the dining room at dinner. If this is what he chooses to wear, he needs to understand that he may well be turned away and asked to change.

[bububr]

FYI

 

Per X Daily:

 

Jeans, t-shirts, tank tops, swimsuits, robes, barefeet are NOT PERMITTED in the restaurant at any time. Shorts are NOT PERMITTED during dinner.

Guests ARE EXPECTED to RESPECT this sailing tradition for the ambiance of the cruise.

 

I Have seen them deny entry to the diningroom and also the theatre for those who are not in compliance.

 

As for the rest. Leave the boots at home, its going to be too hot. bring jeans only for excursions or walking around during the day.

 

Pack his bag for him (advice only) as a guy who cruises a lot this is what I would bring for him.

 

First cruise I would spend the $75.00 or whatever and rent a tux so you dont have to drag it along and it won't get wrinkled. Its an experiance.

 

You will have 3 casual nights. He needs to wear dress slacks, or khakis and a sports shirt ( polo or hawaiian..etc ) bring 1 pr pants , 3 shirts.

 

You will have 2 informal nights where he will need at least a sportscoat, and slacks...there is a grey area about a tie or not. Use the same slacks from casual night if they are 'dressy'. I bring 1 pr dress slacks 1 white shirt (can wear it both nights) and a navy blazer and 2 ties.

 

You will have 2 formal nights. Either rent the tux ( maybe the dinner jacket also) so you don't need to bring it, or he does NEED a DARK SUIT and tie. There is no way to get around this if you want to eat in the main restaurant. Not sure about the alt. dining as I have never done it. bring dark suit 1 dress shirt 1 or 2 dark ties...boots might be acceptable if they are black and polished...I think even 'W' wears his sh*tkickers to formal occasions.

 

For the rest of the time its shorts, t-shirts and bathing suits. Don't need too many because you can wear them over again, especially the shorts. And laundry is available if you need to have some things washed.

 

Hope that helps.

 

If not tell him just because its formal in Texas doesn't mean is correct everywhere else. Hey, formal in a nudist colony would be? Heck I'm not going bare-assed to dinner....I might drop my fork...Ouch!!!!:D

 

 

Dave:eek:

[judy&steve]

Forgive my ignorance, but what kind of boots are they?

Inquiring minds want to know!!

Judy (abord the Serenade now!)

[Keith1010]

Bottom line it is inappropriate on Celebrity ships and in the restaurant on most other cruise lines. I would tell him to leave the outfit at home and wear it in Texas, but not to dinner on the cruise ship.

 

Keith

[Ehpride]

To satisfy him, maybe he could wear the starched shirts on casual nights with slacks. Or maybe he could find a western style tuxedo for rent from home to wear on formal night.

[Cruise Arizona]

Full quill boots are made from ostrich hide, and full quill refers to the "goose bump" pattern made that remains after the ostrich has been plucked.

 

These are usually some of the most expensive and most comfortable boots.

[judy&steve]

Thanks, Suzanne. I figured it had to do with feathers, but being an Easterner, I didn't have a clue.

I have a pair of (faux) ostrich loafers. Now I know what makes the bumps on the leather!

--Judy