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Boeing 737 max 8 and 9 flights are now suspended in the US.....

 

Be prepared for flight delays if you are on AA or Southwest....

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Air Travel is going to be a mess everywhere.  Lots of International carriers who fly into the US affected too.  Lots of cancellations and rebooking onto carriers who don't fly the Max 8 or 9.

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9 minutes ago, ghstudio said:

Boeing 737 max 8 and 9 flights are now suspended in the US.....

 

Be prepared for flight delays if you are on AA or Southwest....

United reportedly flies Max 9's.

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39 minutes ago, Ma Bell said:

The software glitch is one thing, the political stuff is another. This is a cruise board.

 

Good reminder!

So lets ALL stick to the topic, stop the childish bickering and comments that add absolutley nothing of value.

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2 hours ago, kimberpuppy said:

 

I knew someone on the internet would blame Trump for these plane crashes, just didn't realize it would come from the CC forum.

 

 

No one blamed Trump for the crashes. Boeing and the FAA were being blamed for reluctance to grounding the planes in the US after the latest crash. Now everyone is on board and the planes are grounded. So we can move on.....

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12 minutes ago, wpgcycler said:

 

Just not on a 737 Max. :classic_wink:

Might be safer on road bike these days, eh?

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3 hours ago, Despegue said:

Check Airman on B737 here, but no experience with the MAX myself as I am currently flying B747.

 

There is a very good reason why EASA ( European version of the FAA) and most other developped Aviation nations have grounded the B737-8 MAX and -9 MAX.

 

2 fatal accidents within 5 months, with a similar profile and a  new software system that is hugely critisized by the Airline pilot community as it is deficient and simply dangerous in design and operationand which was even hidden from us by Boeing until the Lionair crash in October makes grounding the aircraft the Safe option at the moment until we learn more and until Boeing comes up with a solution to the MCAS software.

yes, this so-called MCAS system, which is a software feature that basically pitches the nose down when it senses ( through outside sensors called angle-of-attack sensors) it needs to do so to avoid an unflyable situation. This goes against the flightcrew input as this happens ONLY in manual flight. ( reports that the MAX had similar behaviour with the autopilot ON is therefore of even greater concern) and is based on only 1 sensor, which is subject to being faulty or damaged. The crew would then have to struggle, close to the ground, an aircraft that basically wants to dive down into that ground, until 2 switches are flipped. This IS a so-called memory item, meaning that flightcrew on the MAX know this procedure by heart, but when things happen fast, close to the ground and in a potentially much more confusing situation, like lack of reliable airspeed, this is A typical Swiss cheese-hole situation. ( those with Safety experience will inow what I mean).

so why was this MCAS system installed anyway? Simply put: because otherwise, the B737MAX would not pass certification.

the aircraft is based on a design from the 60’s, and has been adapted over the years. With the new engines, certification aerodynamic characteristics would be unsatisfactory without a system to make this artificially better. 

I love the B737. It is a reliable, well designed aircraft that is mostly benign to fly. Unfortunately, and this is not only my opinion but that of many colleagues, Boeing used the design passed its sell-by date to be able to offer an economical answer to Airbus witht the A320NEO ( itself not without issues either, but more engine related).

also, please please understand that this is ONLY regarding the B737MAX and not about the B737-700/800/900 or earlier models.

 

You can most easily recognize a B737MAX by looking at the back of the engines. If they have sawteeth around the cowlings, it is a MAX.

 

 

 

Now for the unfortunately slightly Political part which I need to include to understand the reluctance of the FAA to ground the MAX, and which is deeply saddening...

Boeing has been working on a Software Update since November, but is delayed with bringing it out by several weeks, partly due to a government shutdown in the USA and the FAA not being able to cooperate with Boeing on  realization and certification of the software fix. 

At the same time, the US FAA is working with an Acting Administrator, who is very capable, but does see pressure from the top US Government, as that commander-in Chief  has his own “man” lined-up for the job ( one of his personal pilots actually,  not the ones assigned to AF1, but flying the private B757).

At the same...

Boeing has been urging the Government NOT to ground the aircraft, and the CEO , mr. Muilenburg, has been placing calls with Washington for the last 48 hours.  At the same time, its CEO is a large financial contributor to the current persons in the White house.

we all claim that Safety is first. Unfortunately , often it is Politics first. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Despegue

Instructor/ Examiner B737.300-900

Captain B747-400/-8i

Maritime and Aviation Emergency and Evacuation auditor

Chairman TCAS Maritime and Aviation Safety


 

 

 

First part of your post is appreciated as factual comments from someone in the know. Second part, the political part is opinion  and absolutely unnecessary on a cruise board.

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3 hours ago, kimberpuppy said:

 

14,830 people died last year in bathtubs in the US.   

Hey buddy, you're comparing apples to oranges here.

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8 minutes ago, dkjretired said:

 

First part of your post is appreciated as factual comments from someone in the know. Second part, the political part is opinion  and absolutely unnecessary on a cruise board.

No, it are FACTS explaining why there has not been an update yet, and why the FAA was reluctant in a grounding.

 

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18 minutes ago, dkjretired said:

 

First part of your post is appreciated as factual comments from someone in the know. Second part, the political part is opinion  and absolutely unnecessary on a cruise board.

I don't see any opinion offered (perhaps implied by the poster or inferred on your part) only facts. Maybe they're facts that not everybody wants to hear but they are facts nonetheless.

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5 minutes ago, wpgcycler said:

I don't see any opinion offered (perhaps implied by the poster or inferred on your part) only facts. Maybe they're facts that not everybody wants to hear but they are facts nonetheless.

I think the salient issue of the political comment part was this quote:

 

" Boeing has been working on a Software Update since November, but is delayed with bringing it out by several weeks, partly due to a government shutdown in the USA and the FAA not being able to cooperate with Boeing on  realization and certification of the software fix."

 

That said, it could be extrapolated that had the government shutdown not happened it's possible all the 787 Max 8 & 9 aircraft may have had the software fixes earlier. Of course no one can say that as fact, but the fact does exist that there was a federal shutdown that caused a lot of problems in many ways.

 

I didn't see the post as shooting at anyone in particular, but that was my inference in having read the comments several times to make sure I understood them.

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1 minute ago, dkjretired said:

He even said it was political and others commented to keep politics out of it.

Political? Yes, and he stated the context was potentially political. No opinion was offered however. The facts stated were widely reported.

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United is not flying many of the 737 MAX9, they ordered under 30.   Southwest, on the other hand, ordered 250 of the 737 MAX 8s.   I would bet there will be a much bigger impact on Southwest.   We are booked on United on an A310 to Florida.

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1 minute ago, dkjretired said:

He even said it was political and others commented to keep politics out of it.

Why don’t you reread my post instead of acting insulted for some obscure reason.  At no time do I blame or state political bias.

I merely state that companies and politics are closer connected than some people realize, that companies are closer connected to Federal agencies. Fact of life, and certainly not limited to the USA or current Administration.

 

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Not insulted and have no political agenda except that I have been on this board since it’s inception and don’t like politics injected which you admitted. By the way I have admired your posts for years.

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American Airlines put a message on their website. They have 24 737 Max 8's that were operated on about 85 flights a day.

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18 hours ago, kimberpuppy said:

 

14,830 people died last year in bathtubs in the US.   

 

A statistic that is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.  Apples and oranges....

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14 hours ago, Covepointcruiser said:

United is not flying many of the 737 MAX9, they ordered under 30.   Southwest, on the other hand, ordered 250 of the 737 MAX 8s.   I would bet there will be a much bigger impact on Southwest.   We are booked on United on an A310 to Florida.

They still fly the A310?? How old are these planes??

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So if someone misses their cruise because there are not enough planes to move those thousands of passengers to their destination, will insurance cover the cost?

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16 hours ago, dkjretired said:

Not insulted and have no political agenda except that I have been on this board since it’s inception and don’t like politics injected which you admitted. By the way I have admired your posts for years.

Trust me, I also dislike Politics on this forum, but I did feel the need to give some background info regarding the reason why the FAA was reluctant to ground the MAX and why Boeing has not come-up with a fix yet. 

 

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On 3/12/2019 at 8:41 PM, WTXCRUISER said:

737-9MAX is not the type of aircraft involved in the two fatal accidents.  Only the 737-8MAX is involved.

The crashes were 8Max but in the US they have grounded both the 9Max and 8Max.

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20 hours ago, sasset said:

United reportedly flies Max 9's.

That they do.   I'm currently booked on one but they have been substituting 737-9 instead.   On my flight they used a plane with same number of rows and seats so seat selection remained the same.

 

United mostly fly it out of Houston and LA

Edited by Jim_Iain

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