Anyone else nervous about flying 737-MAX this week?

[Crusinsusan2]

Just checked our flight's. Leaving this Friday (15th) to FLL from PSP on AA returning March 27. 3 of 4 legs coming and going are the planes on the news tonight.  The 

good news is if the US grounds all we have 2 days to get to FLL before the K departs on the 17th and really good insurance so we can make that work. Question is if the US and Canada are the only countries in the world not grounding this plane by Friday would you still take it? We are not nervous flyers but the conflicting FAA folks on the news have me double checking.

[Aquahound]

AA only has 24 of those planes in their fleet, and you're on 3 of them?  That seems unlikely.  They have over 300 737-800s, which is their most common plane.  Are you sure you're on Max 8's and not 737-800s?  

Edited March 13, 2019 by Aquahound

[DaveOKC]

I have already been on them and of course no issues.  You never know though.  Did you check the airline's website to see what kind of plane you will be on?

 

[kazu]

I will honesty admit that when the news came out and the suspicions, the first thing I did was check the equipment I was flying.

 

Thankfully, it’s not listed.

 

I don’t get why the US and Canada have been so reluctant when so many airlines and countries have moved quickly.

 

I get that there is no proof yet but.... too many similarities means caution should be used IMO.

 

Such a sad tragedy, again 😞 

[Crusinsusan2]

Yep, checked twice. PSP to DFW confirmed with AA 737-80 Max. DWF to FLL Airbus. Both return legs also FLL/DFW/PSP also confirmed as 737-80 Max. Would be thrilled to hear if I received inaccurate info.   

[Crusinsusan2]

Thank you guys. And to be truthful although never thinking about it prior to this we have most likely flown on these planes since 2017 from Palm Springs CA. I can absolutely justify "I'm going anyway" and hopefully our paperwork/insurance is in order if something happens OR I can also justify in my head to cancel if we think the risk is there. Total 50/50 on this one and reason for the post.   

[Jammu2]

We are booked on the 737 max 8 Vancouver to Honolulu. I share your trepidation. Though I assume Canadian Westjet pilots have learned how to disconnect the auto stabilizer by now.

[twodjs]

Sorry, but with at least two additional pilots reporting the same nose-down dive issue on Max 8s shortly after take-off in the U.S.when the auto pilot was initiated, that's a 100% no go for me until their software is updated. Making an assumption isn't enough for me.

[Copper10-8]

North American orders and deliveries of 737 MAX aircraft:

 

Air Canada - 50 Boeing 737-800 MAX + 11 Boeing 737-900 MAX - 20 delivered so far

Alaska AL - 32 Boeing 737-900 MAX - None delivered so far

American AL - 100 Boeing 737-800 MAX - 22 delivered so far 

Southwest AL - 30 Boeing 737-700 MAX + 250 Boeing 737-800 MAX - 31 delivered so far

United AL - 36 Boeing 737-900 MAX + 100 Boeing 737-10 - 12 delivered so far

Westjet - 23 Boeing 737-700 MAX + 20 Boeing 737-800 MAX + 12 Boeing 737-10 MAX - 12 delivered so far

 

As of today. the U.S. FAA and Canadian TCCA have not yet grounded the 737 MAX models

Edited March 13, 2019 by Copper10-8

[AncientWanderer]

Not a chance that I'd get on one of those planes.  Europe always moves faster on things than we do.  

Nope, won't do it.

[trophy_23]

We flew it IAH-FLL two weeks ago, thankfully without issue.

[WTXCRUISER]

Most of American Airlines (AA) 737Max planes are routed through Miami.  Since you seem very concerned, I have checked the AA flight schedules from PSP-FLL.  It appears you are on the 737-800 which is NOT the MAX aircraft.  I hope this helps you feel more at ease.  On the AA website here is the difference:

 

738-Boeing 737 

M8-Boeing 737MAX 8

 

Again, on March 15 the only 737 scheduled on AA from PSP to DFW to FLL is the 738.  This is not the plane type involved in the recent two accidents.

[canadianbear]

It makes me very nervous.  I’ll have to check-we are flying United home from Ft Lauderdale via Houston to Vancouver on Saturday.  

[UnorigionalName]

I would think all 737-800 MAX pilots by now are well aware of how to cut off the MCAS.  

 

It does sound like a pretty retarded design/engineering/cost issue that should have been seen from a mile away, or at least indonesia.

[WTXCRUISER]

10 minutes ago, canadianbear said:

It makes me very nervous.  I’ll have to check-we are flying United home from Ft Lauderdale via Houston to Vancouver on Saturday.  

 

United Airlines (UA) does not fly the 737-MAX 8, which is the type involved in two crashes.

[Copper10-8]

13 minutes ago, canadianbear said:

It makes me very nervous.  I’ll have to check-we are flying United home from Ft Lauderdale via Houston to Vancouver on Saturday.  

 

Looks like UAL is flying the 737 Series 900 from FLL to IAH and the series 800 from IAH to YVR which are NOT the newer MAX models

[trophy_23]

26 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Looks like UAL is flying the 737 Series 900 from FLL to IAH and the series 800 from IAH to YVR which are NOT the newer MAX models

Ours was definately a Max (IAH-FLL) end of Feb (Max has huge double winglets).  Return flight was 737-800. IAH-YVR was A320.

Edited March 13, 2019 by trophy_23

[Crusinsusan2]

1 hour ago, WTXCRUISER said:

Most of American Airlines (AA) 737Max planes are routed through Miami.  Since you seem very concerned, I have checked the AA flight schedules from PSP-FLL.  It appears you are on the 737-800 which is NOT the MAX aircraft.  I hope this helps you feel more at ease.  On the AA website here is the difference:

 

738-Boeing 737 

M8-Boeing 737MAX 8

 

Again, on March 15 the only 737 scheduled on AA from PSP to DFW to FLL is the 738.  This is not the plane type involved in the recent two accidents.

True heart felt thanks WXT for the clarification. AA Tickets show aircraft as Boeing 738.   

[canadianbear]

6 hours ago, trophy_23 said:

Ours was definately a Max (IAH-FLL) end of Feb (Max has huge double winglets).  Return flight was 737-800. IAH-YVR was A320.

We were also on this flight.  

[Despegue]

Check Airman on B737 here, but no experience with the MAX myself as I am currently flying B747.

 

There is a very good reason why EASA ( European version of the FAA) and most other developped Aviation nations have grounded the B737-8 MAX and -9 MAX.

 

2 fatal accidents within 5 months, with a similar profile and a  new software system that is hugely critisized by the Airline pilot community as it is deficient and simply dangerous in design and operationand which was even hidden from us by Boeing until the Lionair crash in October makes grounding the aircraft the Safe option at the moment until we learn more and until Boeing comes up with a solution to the MCAS software.

yes, this so-called MCAS system, which is a software feature that basically pitches the nose down when it senses ( through outside sensors called angle-of-attack sensors) it needs to do so to avoid an unflyable situation. This goes against the flightcrew input as this happens ONLY in manual flight. ( reports that the MAX had similar behaviour with the autopilot ON is therefore of even greater concern) and is basedmon only 1 sensor, which is subject to being faulty or damaged. The crew would then have to struggle, close to the ground, an aircraft that basically wants to dive down into that ground, until 2 switches are flipped. This IS a so-called memory item, meaning that flightcrew on the MAX know this procedure by heart, but when things happen fast, close to the ground and in a potentially much more confusing situation, like lack of reliable airspeed, this is A typical swiss-hole situation. ( those with Safety experience will inow what I mean).

so why was this MCAS system installed anyway? Simply put: because otherwise, the B737MAX would not pass certification.

the aircraft is based on a design from the 60’s, and has been adapted over the years. With the new engines, certification aerodynamic characteristics would be unsatisfactory without a system to make this artificially better. 

I love the B737. It is a reliable, well designed aircraft that is mostly benign to fly. Unfortunately, and this is not only my opinion but that of many colleagues, Boeing used the design passed its sell-by date to be able to offer an economical answer to Airbus witht the A320NEO ( itself not without issues either, but more engine related).

also, please please understand that this is ONLY regarding the B737MAX and not about the B737-700/800/900 or earlier models.

the double-winglets shown in a picture above, with the claim that this is for sure a MAX. Because of this are by the way also fitted on recent B737-800’s and are NOT an indication that you fly a MAX.

you can most easily recognize a B737MAX by looking at the back of the engines. If they have sawteeth around the cowlings, it is a MAX.

 

 

 

Now for the unfortunately slightly Political part which I need to include to understand the reluctance of the FAA to ground the MAX, and which is deeply saddening...

Boeing has been working on a Software Update since November, but is delayed with bringing it out by several weeks, partly due to a government shutdown in the USA and the FAA not being able to cooperate with Boeing on  realization and certification of the software fix. 

At the same time, the US FAA is working with an Acting Administrator, who is very capable, but does see pressure from the top US Government, as that commander-in Chief  has his own “man” lined-up for the job ( one of his personal pilots actually)

At the same...

Boeing has been urging the Government NOT to ground the aircraft, and the CEO , mr. Muilenburg, has been placing calls with Washington for the last 48 hours.  At the same time, its CEO is a large financial contributor to the current persons in the White house.

we all claim that Safety is first. Unfortunaetly, often it is Politics first. 

 

Kind regards,

 

Despegue

Instructor/ Examiner B737.300-900

Captain B747-400/-8i

Maritime and Aviation Emergency and Evacuation auditor

Chairman TCAS Maritime and Aviation Safety

[Krazy Kruizers]

I know that I would be very concerned.  Thankfully where we live, all we get are the oldest planes that the airlines can find -- even going across country.

[Walfam]

I would be concerned but I would not change my flight. I'm much more likely to die in a car accident, hit  by someone drunk, high, or texting.  That is the sad reality where I live.  

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

I was concerned to the point that I checked the aircraft on upcoming Southwest flight this weekend. Not a MAX. Prior to that concern was Southwest's continuing issues with their mechanics. But I am still flying.

 

Yesterday's Wall Street Journal had an article called "What Travelers Need to Know." In the U.S, Southwest has 34 MAX8s, American has 24, and United has 14. Article said American flies its MAX8s to or from Miami mostly from New York airports. United flies its MAX8s mostly in and out of Houston, LA, Hawaii, and Orlando. Just reporting.

 

Thank you Despegue for that very detailed summary of what's going on.

[LMaxwell]

I would be concerned.  No one has my safety at heart more than myself.  Companies are FOR PROFIT.  We are just data entry numbers.  You have every right to feel nervous. 

[Tampa Girl]

10 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

I would think all 737-800 MAX pilots by now are well aware of how to cut off the MCAS.  

 

It does sound like a pretty retarded design/engineering/cost issue that should have been seen from a mile away, or at least indonesia.

 

But that is assuming that the MCAS is the problem!