Antigua

[dcrow72]

personally, Antigua is the only port where I take a ships excursion.  Our first visit there in the late 90's was less than impressive and not only was I frightened by the locals screaming and fighting over where they were going to take us, but it left a very impression.  I've been there at least 8 times and remain uncomfortable every single time.  I would be happy without it as a stop.  We have taken a Princess repositioning cruise out of NY 8 times and every single one has had to stop there.  Not a loss in my opinion.  

[Colo Cruiser]

1 hour ago, BarbinMich said:

Just looked at the ship schedule for Antigua in Nov 2018 and Nov 2019.  Here are the results: 

                                      2018        2019

Days with ships            18            13

Number of pax          68,550    45,247

 

So there is a decline in both the number of days with ships in port and in the number of pax in November (picked that month arbitrarily).  Don't know if it's because of the new dock construction or the PM's remarks.  I would assume the former rather than the latter.  I think the island has been popular with pax, especially those who like to have a beach day.

Those numbers do not look right at all. 

Where did those numbers come from?

[exgman]

We are on Regal next November and it’s scheduled to be in Antigua. There’s plenty of time to cancel the port, but we haven’t heard anything yet.

[BarbinMich]

1 hour ago, Colo Cruiser said:

Those numbers do not look right at all. 

Where did those numbers come from?

Too high?  Too low?  Remember the numbers refer to pax for the whole month of Nov. 

 

I assembled them from info on cruisett.com which shows what ships are in a port on a given day; that website also shows the capacity of each ship.  I assume it was ship's capacity at 2/cabin.  I did not independently verify the pax number for each ship.  I don't know of any other central website that gives this info.  In Nov. 2018 cruisett.com says the following 20 ships were in port sometime in Nov.:  Princess Caribbean (3), Crown and Regal; Norwegian Dawn (2), Gem and Jewel; RCCL Serenade OTS (3), Freedom (2), Grandeur; Celebrity Equinox, Reflection and Summit (2); P&O Arcadia and Oriana; Oceania's Riviera and Sirena; Carnival Breeze; HAL Rotterdam; MSC Divina; Cunard's Q Victoria; and Seven Seas Voyager.  Only a few of these ships made multiple stops at Antigua in Nov. 2018.  The numbers in parens are the number of times that ship stopped in Antigua in Nov 2018.  Hope this helps!

[BarbinMich]

2 hours ago, Colo Cruiser said:

Those numbers do not look right at all. 

Where did those numbers come from?

Oops, forgot to add my spreadsheet.  Here it is.

Antigua ship calls - Nov 2018.xlsx

[Colo Cruiser]

3 minutes ago, BarbinMich said:

Oops, forgot to add my spreadsheet.  Here it is.

Antigua ship calls - Nov 2018.xlsx

I initially read your first post wrong.

I thought it was for the year. But only Nov.

That now puts it in perspective.  

[caribill]

We are scheduled to be there on the Pacific Princess on New Year's Day. So far no change in itinerary.

[richsea]

We are scheduled to dock in Antigua on November 5th on Regal’s repo sailing. When trying to check “Calendar & Planning” for our sailing, I get an error message. Shore excursions are still listed, but it’s too early to book any. I would guess that they are in process of replacing Antigua with another port. Too bad as Antigua is one of our favorite islands.

[myfuzzy]

Has anyone gotten any information on replacement ports

 

[richsea]

40 minutes ago, myfuzzy said:

Has anyone gotten any information on replacement ports

 

Nothing for us yet. In fact, after a few days of getting sn error message when checking our itinerery, as of today, it’s back as originally listed, with Antigua. Our sailing isn’t untill Halloween, so a lot can change.

Edited March 29, 2019 by richsea

[myfuzzy]

3 minutes ago, richsea said:

Nothing for us yet. In fact, after a few days of getting sn error message when checking our itinerery, as of today, it’s back as originally listed, with Antigua. Our sailing isn’t untill Halloween, so a lot can change.

I'm sailing with you on the Repo, but was wondering what our options were, didn't care much for Antigua anyway, lots of other options.  Was wondering if anyone affected on earlier sailings than us got updated information.  I had no trouble on my personalizer, still showing Antigua as well.  

[Tak8]

Count me in on really liking this island.  Antigua has some great beaches and I never felt uneasy in the beach areas.   In the Carnival announcement, I remember reading that Tortola was one of the replacement islands for Carnival ships.  Don't know what Princess will do.  

[Hlitner]

US Corporations often have to tread a very fine line when dealing with foreign governments and their officials.  In some parts of the world, payoffs (bribes) are just a normal part of doing business.   Back in 1977 the US Government enacted the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) which does impact both RCI and CCL.  Put simply it means that the cruise lines cannot legally payoff (in anyway) a government or their officials to obtain anything in return.  Is this the problem in Antigua?   

 

We actually were on a ship that got caught up in this FCPA issue.  A few years ago we were on a long Prinsendam cruise that called at two ports in Tunesia (Gabes and Sous).  As I recall our ship docked in Sous for a normal port day.  When it came time to disembark the local authorities refused to clear our ship without first receiving some "consideration" which would have been in the form of money.  We sat at the pier for nearly 2 hours (past our normal departure time) while our Captain waited for instructions from HAL who apparently had contacted the State Department.  As the Captain  (Halle Gundersen) later told the tale, he finally explained to the local officials that if they did not permit us to depart we would miss our next port....which happened to be Gabes.  He further pointed out that if we missed Gabes this would cost Tunesia a lot of money in missed port fees and tourist revenue.  The local officials finally relented and released our ship (and we did proceed to Gabes with no further issues).  Although it would have been easier for HAL to simply have paid the small requested bribe, it would have been a serious violation of the FCPA.

 

There have been rumors flying around the Caribbean about the Prime Minister of Antigua (Gaston Browne) and his thoughts about how to "partner" with some tourist related ventures.  There is a very fine line between "partnering" and violating the FCPA and we wonder if this is part of the problem.   What is interesting is that some cruise lines (such as MSC) likely do not have to comply with the provisions of FCPO...which only applies to US Corporations.

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

US Corporations often have to tread a very fine line when dealing with foreign governments and their officials.  In some parts of the world, payoffs (bribes) are just a normal part of doing business.   Back in 1977 the US Government enacted the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act (FCPA) which does impact both RCI and CCL.  Put simply it means that the cruise lines cannot legally payoff (in anyway) a government or their officials to obtain anything in return.  Is this the problem in Antigua?   

 

We actually were on a ship that got caught up in this FCPA issue.  A few years ago we were on a long Prinsendam cruise that called at two ports in Tunesia (Gabes and Sous).  As I recall our ship docked in Sous for a normal port day.  When it came time to disembark the local authorities refused to clear our ship without first receiving some "consideration" which would have been in the form of money.  We sat at the pier for nearly 2 hours (past our normal departure time) while our Captain waited for instructions from HAL who apparently had contacted the State Department.  As the Captain  (Halle Gundersen) later told the tale, he finally explained to the local officials that if they did not permit us to depart we would miss our next port....which happened to be Gabes.  He further pointed out that if we missed Gabes this would cost Tunesia a lot of money in missed port fees and tourist revenue.  The local officials finally relented and released our ship (and we did proceed to Gabes with no further issues).  Although it would have been easier for HAL to simply have paid the small requested bribe, it would have been a serious violation of the FCPA.

 

There have been rumors flying around the Caribbean about the Prime Minister of Antigua (Gaston Browne) and his thoughts about how to "partner" with some tourist related ventures.  There is a very fine line between "partnering" and violating the FCPA and we wonder if this is part of the problem.   What is interesting is that some cruise lines (such as MSC) likely do not have to comply with the provisions of FCPO...which only applies to US Corporations.

 

Hank

[Felix331]

Princess may not have announced changes, but St. Maarten is showing Crown Princess there on the days the ship is currently scheduled for Antigua. http://201.220.14.28/sxm/MainMenu.aspx?ShipScheduleType=2

[reedprincess]

Princess hasn't cancelled any Antigua ports. At least not yet. And if they haven't by now, I'd be surprised if they did.. of course, anything g is possible

 

Somehow everyone seems to be missing that  just before Carnival "took their ball and went home" and the PM made his comments with regards to Carnival -  Antigua signed an $80 million development deal with GPH to develop the port area, piers, etc - chosen over the Carnival coalition deal. The GPH provides for more local access, more infrastructure development, more local business in the port, less "exclusivity" aka less closed off private port area separating visitors from actual Antigua. A much better deal overall for Antigua versus another private port where guests don't actually have contact with the actual country.    So, Carnival lost out on their bid and in punishment, and in perfect illustration of the PMs remarks about exploitation attempts - they cancelled several port calls.  Sure, losing around 15 or 18 total port calls over the next 18 months will hurt a little bit - but not all that much, particularly as part of the improvements include finishing the pier for the larger mega-ships, etc. 

[richsea]

Hlitner, where did you hear of those rumours flying around about Antigua’s PM?

[reedprincess]

1 hour ago, richsea said:

Hlitner, where did you hear of those rumours flying around about Antigua’s PM?

Read any of the articles at rhe time Carnival dropped Antigua. They cited comments by the PM with regards to tourism and cruise lines exploiting the island, etc. The PM of Antigua has had a long running theme with regards to AIs and th concessions they demand, and cruise lines and the concessions they demand in relation to the actual income that comes to the country due to either (very little in relation to the demands). 

[cclvr]

some very beautiful beaches on antigua...will miss going to them if princess pulls out

 

[teese]

My sailing on the Caribbean Princess still has Antigua listed, but I followed the above link to St Martin, and it now lists Caribbean Princess on the same day as our Antigua day.  Very interesting.

[Mike45LC]

There are beautiful beaches on many islands, and if we substitute another island for Antigua, I won't complain.

 

I think this whole mess is a pi$$ing contest over how much money the cruise line gets to keep, and how much money gets into the island coffers and how much money goes to corrupt officials.  They will ultimately reach a compromise!

 

I remember being warned about the huge ghetto area between the piers in Antigua and downtown, much worse than today!  With the cruise line warning us to take a bus or a taxi, and not to walk.  Of course, with that warning, I just had to walk!  I did not feel threatened, I was very friendly and the locals were friendly back, but the smells and sights were not great.  

 

[richsea]

6 hours ago, reedprincess said:

Read any of the articles at rhe time Carnival dropped Antigua. They cited comments by the PM with regards to tourism and cruise lines exploiting the island, etc. The PM of Antigua has had a long running theme with regards to AIs and th concessions they demand, and cruise lines and the concessions they demand in relation to the actual income that comes to the country due to either (very little in relation to the demands). 

The way I interpreted  hlitner’s inference was that the PM had his hand out. That’s not what I have read on line. Perhaps I missed it

[DrivesLikeMario]

Just had a friend dock in Antigua two weeks ago and they seemed to be very welcomed there and they had a fantastic time.   I'm sure there are plenty of ways of getting around the extra "consideration" but the islands really have to tread lightly or they could scare off valuable cruise ship visits all together.

[Ep010835]

If we ever happen onto another cruise stopping here, we’ve already decided we’ll spend a nice quiet day on board. 

[cruisequeen4ever]

Nothing has officially been announced, but I read one article from Dominica a few weeks ago indicating Princess is pulling out of Antigua, too this next winter. The article said the port agent had been notified of 17 sailings dropping Antigua. Our Pacific Princess itinerary was listed in their article but hasn’t changed yet when I log in. DH and I really like the beaches of Antigua so would be disappointed, but there are some islands we would enjoy visiting instead, like St. Maarten, Dominica, or St. Bart’s. If they are changing, I hope they announce it soon.