Cruisers and terrorism

[Aplmac]

1 hour ago, sail7seas said:

While docked inCuracao, some years ago,  the company   that insures HAL had divers on site at the doc k and sent   those divers down to check the hull. 

After seeing that it made me think that many of the ships / cruise lines could possibly  have crew who are divers  that  check the hull regularly in port to be certain, no evil meaning  someone   attached anything while the ship was in port.

.

I have seen similar routine practice drill and checks at Bridgetown Port, Barbados

complete with our local Bomb Disposal Truck to hand.

Geez, I didn't even know Barbados had a Bomb Disposal Truck!

 

I asked someone "What's up with all this??"

Answer: a routine practice drill that they carry out every so often

usually after most folks have left the ships and gone ashore for the day.

The Port was involved, local Police were involved
and all the ships were too!

[Toofarfromthesea]

3 hours ago, sfaaa said:

Remember terrorists only need to get lucky once. And they get to pick the time and place to strike.

 

And the chances of you being in that place at that time are ridiculously miniscule.  

[MicCanberra]

57 minutes ago, Toofarfromthesea said:

 

And the chances of you being in that place at that time are ridiculously miniscule.  

I suppose some people are luckier than others.

[calliopecruiser]

56 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

I suppose some people are luckier than others.

Exactly.  It's all luck of the draw.

[PapaSquatch]

MicCanberra & Gwendy, thats where my OP meant to go.

 

Calliopecruiser, if you do not know, a CCW is concealed carry weapon.

Edited March 24, 2019 by PapaSquatch

[calliopecruiser]

7 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

I do not think being aware of what is happening around you is the same as living in fear

Then why are you doing it......To see how the other half lives?  Because you enjoy people watching?  To save you time by finding the shortest line in the supermarket?

I'm guessing the answer is because you're afraid that something bad might happen and you want to be prepared.

[MicCanberra]

11 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

Then why are you doing it......To see how the other half lives?  Because you enjoy people watching?  To save you time by finding the shortest line in the supermarket?

I'm guessing the answer is because you're afraid that something bad might happen and you want to be prepared.

Being alert to possible dangers and being afraid are two differing things as well.

[Toofarfromthesea]

4 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

Exactly.  It's all luck of the draw.

 

With the chance of 'winning' (in this context dying in a terrorist attack) being vanishingly small.  

People really have no intuitive grasp of the meaning of risks associated with ultra-low probability events.

[lifes-a-beach]

10 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

Then why are you doing it......To see how the other half lives?  Because you enjoy people watching?  To save you time by finding the shortest line in the supermarket?

I'm guessing the answer is because you're afraid that something bad might happen and you want to be prepared.

 

As a father and retired law enforcement professional I have always taught my son and daughter that they are responsible for their own safety.  Both are experts in situational analysis, a variety of weapons including handguns and edged weapons, and were taught at a very early age, especially after the school shootings at Columbine when they were very young, to protect themselves at all times.  Neither of them have contemplated a career in law enforcement either.    They are business professionals; my son in oil and my daughter in academia.  

 

Ever been afraid you couldn’t make your expenses?  Did you go out and work or sit in the home you were sure to lose if you didn’t?   Action turns fear into confidence.  

 

[calliopecruiser]

12 hours ago, lifes-a-beach said:

I have always taught my son and daughter that they are responsible for their own safety.

Of course - who else is responsible?  That doesn't translate into living in fear or preparation for a horrible happening.  I am not an expert in any type of weapon handling, but I still don't think someone else is responsible for keeping me safe.  I think you're mixing up two different ideas (not living in fear, and not taking responsibility for myself), one of which is not at all related to anything I've said.

 

I'm not sure what your statement about expenses is about, and again I think you're ascribing to me ideas that I never claimed and don't hold.  I'm not sitting around expecting someone else to look after my safety or my finances, but I'm also not living in constant wariness watching to ensure someone doesn't snatch either away from me - being fearful that those around me are waiting to do me (personal or financial) harm. 

 

Action doesn't turn fear into confidence, it turns fear into bravery.  One can be fearful while taking action - that's what bravery is (doing something even though you're afraid).  Only repeated successes turn fear into confidence; action alone isn't enough.  Well, unless it's a false sense of confidence. 

[ldubs]

On 3/23/2019 at 8:58 PM, calliopecruiser said:

Then why are you doing it......To see how the other half lives?  Because you enjoy people watching?  To save you time by finding the shortest line in the supermarket?

I'm guessing the answer is because you're afraid that something bad might happen and you want to be prepared.

 

I'm reading your comments and scratching my head.  So, when you board an airplane, you ignore where the exits are because the chances of an emergency are small?  You skip muster drills cause it will never happen to you?  You don't worry about fire drills?

 

I understand your point that the risk is small, but I think you are taking issue with just common sense awareness.  

[MicCanberra]

I am not sure they are being that reckless, more like they ignore anything that isn't directly affecting them at the time. I would rather not wait until then if it is avoidable.

[calliopecruiser]

9 hours ago, ldubs said:

So, when you board an airplane, you ignore where the exits are because the chances of an emergency are small?  You skip muster drills cause it will never happen to you?  You don't worry about fire drills?

 

No, I don't ignore things, I just don't worry about them.  It's not a binary choice - there are a lot of options in the middle. 

 

I don't ignore where the exits are (how would you even do that, since they usually include the entrance?), but I don't scout out all the options of places to leave the building when I enter it -- I find what I need when I need it.  I go to the muster drill because the crew (cruise line) has a plan in place in case it's needed, and so I listen to those who know more about the plan than I do -- but if they didn't tell me about their plan, I wouldn't search down the purser to ask what their safety plan was, nor would I spend any energy devising my own (If cruising worried me that much, I wouldn't do it).  I evacuate during a fire drill because, again, there is a warning in place to alert me to most fires - but I don't check every building I go into to make sure they have fire alarms and that they've been tested, and to be sure that they've practised their drills.   I have fire alarms in my apartment, but I don't practice evacuating my apartment every month to be sure I remember how to do it.

 

I don't ignore the things that are there to help me, but I don't spend any energy or emotion worrying that what's in place might be insufficient.  I don't ignore the brake pedal on my car, but I don't feel the need to learn evasive driving techniques either.

[SRF]

On 3/22/2019 at 4:11 PM, lenquixote66 said:

 

 In 1997 I was mugged.The guy put a gun to my head,pulled the  trigger.The gun jammed  and I was able to get away. On September 11,2001 I had an appointment to be in the World Trade Center at 9AM.My appointment was cancelled.In 2002 I slipped on ice and went flying head first through the glass door of a store.

I have not stopped leaving my house.

 

Remind me to stay away from you. 😄

 

 

[MicCanberra]

4 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

 

No, I don't ignore things, I just don't worry about them.  It's not a binary choice - there are a lot of options in the middle. 

 

 

Not a binary choice for me either and no worry is involved with being alert to your surroundings.

[lifes-a-beach]

21 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

 I don't ignore the brake pedal on my car, but I don't feel the need to learn evasive driving techniques either.

 

 

[calliopecruiser]

3 hours ago, lifes-a-beach said:

 

 

Have you learned evasive driving skills - how to lose the car that's tailing you and how to evade attacks?

[lifes-a-beach]

I’m afraid I’ve never experienced a criminal tailing me.  I thought you meant using only the brakes to avoid an accident instead of using the steering wheel also.  

 

I will say that if I felt I was being followed I would drive to the nearest law enforcement facility while calling them and asking for help.  In the event of an attack I would definitely respond in kind.  

[MicCanberra]

Not sure I have ever been tailed but then if I was then the police would be utilised as above.

[sail7seas]

On 3/23/2019 at 4:25 PM, Aplmac said:

.

I have seen similar routine practice drill and checks at Bridgetown Port, Barbados

complete with our local Bomb Disposal Truck to hand.

Geez, I didn't even know Barbados had a Bomb Disposal Truck!

 

I asked someone "What's up with all this??"

Answer: a routine practice drill that they carry out every so often

usually after most folks have left the ships and gone ashore for the day.

The Port was involved, local Police were involved
and all the ships were too!

 

Good

 

I am  happy to read of all efforts put forth to keep the ships and ports  as safe as possible.

 

 

 

sail.noordam@gmail.com

[sail7seas]

On 3/23/2019 at 8:28 PM, MicCanberra said:

I suppose some people are luckier than others.

  Tell that to survivors and/ or family of those who perished  in  any of  the world wide terrorist attacks.

 

 

[MicCanberra]

2 hours ago, sail7seas said:

  Tell that to survivors and/ or family of those who perished  in  any of  the world wide terrorist attacks.

 

 

I don't know how you want me to respond to this. Nothing would sooth their pain and suffering, so telling them they were lucky or unlucky would not achieve anything.

[calliopecruiser]

7 hours ago, lifes-a-beach said:

I’m afraid I’ve never experienced a criminal tailing me.  I thought you meant using only the brakes to avoid an accident instead of using the steering wheel also.  

Ah, I get it.  No, I was talking about the extra skills for driving in extraordinary situations, because this whole post is about extraordinary situations.  There are courses for security drivers (of people who feel at risk of being kidnapped/attacked) regarding evasive techniques. 

[MicCanberra]

I think I saw some documentary displaying this, 'Baby Driver' I think.

[capriccio]

On 3/23/2019 at 2:42 PM, sail7seas said:

Think Achile Lauro,,,,,,   terrorism at sea in the early 70's(  or was it late 60's ?)

Hundreds of millions of people have cruised safely since.

sail.noordam@gmail.com

The Achille Lauro hijacking and the murder of passenger Leon Klingoffer occurred in the fall of 1985.  That was a time of great unrest in Europe (I know; we were living in Rome) and the Middle East with a number of plane hijackings including TWA 847 in the summer of 1985 when a US navy diver, Robert Stethem, was murdered.

Edited March 27, 2019 by capriccio