Celebrity orders 5th Edge Class Ship[

[Mynki]

1 minute ago, jan-n-john said:

 

The quality of what lands on your plate depends on a lot more than just the identity of the suppliers.  For openers, all big suppliers supply a range of qualities.  For another, the ship can choose different and better ingredients and preparations, and more modern dishes -- I saw no beef wellington or baked alaska, but I did see what I would view as more updated menu items, and that matters.  I imagine it's part of the reason Celebrity introduced the four MDR concept.  Finally, the kitchen staff themselves do have an impact.  I assume Celebrity put the better performers in the newest kitchen.  

 

I'm not saying the difference was night and day; more like 6 vs. 8 o'clock.

 

I'm sure that your local two star restaurants buy at least some things from the same supplier(s) as your local greasy spoons and chain places, but the food certainly isn't the same for a host of reasons.

See I've had a head chef advise that all menus and all suppliers are determined by Miami head office and that they have very little chance to create their own menus on board. The only exceptions being the buffet and one of the three crew restaurants. Simply ask the head chef during any 'heart of the operation tour' onboard and they'll confirm this. 

So whilst you may have preferred the food on Edge I don't believe the quality will have been any better. 

[justcrusn]

23 hours ago, kitty9 said:

Can someone explain the whole IV thing?  I’ve looked at the pics on the X website, but it doesn’t explain much.  

The IV differs from a traditional verandah or balcony. First of all it can be closed or open like the windows in your car. Sometimes by the ship, sometimes by you.

it has been described as an oceanview where you can open the window.

The complaints are mostly that if you open the folding door to the verandah, the AC in the cabin is disabled. Also, there are not curtains so if you wake early and go out on the balcony your companion will have the bright light too and cannot sleep in. The only cabins NOT equipped with IV are sunset verandah which are traditional balconies.

[jan-n-john]

4 minutes ago, Cruise Junky said:

No, footstools were an amenity of a Concierge balcony

 

Well gee, thanks. I'm barely 50.  Most young people I know are off renting their Balinese villas with private plunge pools or hotels such as the blue palace in Crete for a fraction of the price of Edge.  A window that half opens isn't going to get their attention.

I doubt they're getting them that cheap.  

 

There has been much complaining about Edge pricing.  A bit of critical thought would surely suggest that RCL knows what they're doing.  They have a sophisticated yield management department whose job it is to maximize revenue., short and long term.  I don't doubt they are doing just that -- yes I have a lot of RCL stock so thats what I like to see.  Don't forget, if they sell 2500 trips at 2000 each they make a lot more money than 3000 trips at 1000.  They're not a charitable organization.  Nobody is forced to buy, and anybody who does presumably is getting more value than they are spending.  No seller is obligated to give up any more (what economists call) consumer surplus than they have to.  That's life in a private marketplace. 

 

[Cruise Junky]

7 minutes ago, jan-n-john said:

I doubt they're getting them that cheap.  

 

There has been much complaining about Edge pricing.  A bit of critical thought would surely suggest that RCL knows what they're doing.  They have a sophisticated yield management department whose job it is to maximize revenue., short and long term.  I don't doubt they are doing just that -- yes I have a lot of RCL stock so thats what I like to see.  Don't forget, if they sell 2500 trips at 2000 each they make a lot more money than 3000 trips at 1000.  They're not a charitable organization.  Nobody is forced to buy, and anybody who does presumably is getting more value than they are spending.  No seller is obligated to give up any more (what economists call) consumer surplus than they have to.  That's life in a private marketplace. 

 

 

Have you seen what's been happening to prices after final payment?  What was the hottest ticket in town, the Maiden Transatlantic?  The Repo from London to the Med? a fraction of what they were. Kids Sail Free, 4 Perks, free cruise to casino players... not sure they expected to have to do  that. They're trying hard to keep the pricing high before final payment by throwing every perk in the book at her.

Edited April 12, 2019 by Cruise Junky

[jan-n-john]

7 minutes ago, Mynki said:

See I've had a head chef advise that all menus and all suppliers are determined by Miami head office and that they have very little chance to create their own menus on board. The only exceptions being the buffet and one of the three crew restaurants. Simply ask the head chef during any 'heart of the operation tour' onboard and they'll confirm this. 

So whilst you may have preferred the food on Edge I don't believe the quality will have been any better. 

You're missing the point.  Miami determines what you say they do, but they can have a different determination for different ships.  In particular, menus on Edge are not the same as the other ships, in large part because the restaurants are different.  The whole restaurant set-up is different.  The menu items on Edge are more up-to-date than the rest of the fleet.  And RCL has an obvious interest in people finding the food is really good during these early days, so they can certainly make sure that happens by using higher quality ingredients and various other steps.  It's true that all the food on all the, say, Solstice ships is pretty much the same, and even the M ships, but Edge is a different breed of cat.  

 

I've had extensive discussions with head chefs on many ships, to the point of being on first-name-basis sometimes.  I extensively discussed the need for better gluten-free and other signage on a transpac four years ago with Chef Green for example, to which he commented that he was going to press for some of those ideas to be implemented.  They have since been implemented.  Connection? I don't know, but it couldn't have hurt. 

[jan-n-john]

12 minutes ago, Cruise Junky said:

 

Have you seen what's been happening to prices after final payment?  What was the hottest ticket in town, the Maiden Transatlantic?  The Repo from London to the Med? a fraction of what they were. Kids Sail Free, 4 Perks, free cruise to casino players... not sure they expected to have to do  that. They're trying hard to keep the pricing high before final payment by throwing every perk in the book at her.

I've occasionally checked the movements of pricing on the web sites that have such information, and haven't noticed anything remarkable, but I haven't made a study of it.  In any case, whatever yield management does to improve yields is fine with me.  Perks are hardly new. And as I noted earlier, keeping rates high and accepting a few empty cabins can certainly be the best strategy, ie maximize revenue.

Edited April 12, 2019 by jan-n-john

[UnorigionalName]

2 minutes ago, jan-n-john said:

I've occasionally checked the movements of pricing on the web sites that have such information, and haven't noticed anything remarkable, but I haven't made a study of it.  In any case, whatever yield management does to improve yields is fine with me.  Perks are hardly a new strategy.

 

Don't you see, the edge is bleeding money like crazy, that's why they can't wait to build a 5th one to lose even more money. 😉

[Mynki]

7 minutes ago, jan-n-john said:

You're missing the point.  Miami determines what you say they do, but they can have a different determination for different ships.  In particular, menus on Edge are not the same as the other ships, in large part because the restaurants are different.  The whole restaurant set-up is different.  The menu items on Edge are more up-to-date than the rest of the fleet.  And RCL has an obvious interest in people finding the food is really good during these early days, so they can certainly make sure that happens by using higher quality ingredients and various other steps.  It's true that all the food on all the, say, Solstice ships is pretty much the same, and even the M ships, but Edge is a different breed of cat.  

 

I've had extensive discussions with head chefs on many ships, to the point of being on first-name-basis sometimes.  I extensively discussed the need for better gluten-free and other signage on a transpac four years ago with Chef Green for example, to which he commented that he was going to press for some of those ideas to be implemented.  They have since been implemented.  Connection? I don't know, but it couldn't have hurt. 

lol  I've not missed the point, but you clearly have. The quality is the same whether M, S or E class if sailing out of South Florida. That's it. An apple in the buffet on Edge, Equinox or Infinity came from the same supplier. Trust me it won't taste any different no matter how much people want it too. 

It's not rocket science. 😉 

[Cruise Junky]

4 minutes ago, jan-n-john said:

I've occasionally checked the movements of pricing on the web sites that have such information, and haven't noticed anything remarkable, but I haven't made a study of it.  In any case, whatever yield management does to improve yields is fine with me.  Perks are hardly a new strategy.

I'll save you the work...here's the drop in the Iberian Peninsular Balcony price

Price	Created	Updated
$ 3,199	2019‑02‑09	2019‑02‑13
$ 2,549	2019‑02‑13	2019‑02‑14
$ 1,699	2019‑03‑17	2019‑04‑12

[jan-n-john]

Just now, Mynki said:

lol  I've not missed the point, but you clearly have. The quality is the same whether M, S or E class if sailing out of South Florida. That's it. An apple in the buffet on Edge, Equinox or Infinity came from the same supplier. Trust me it won't taste any different no matter how much people want it too. 

It's not rocket science. 😉 

Sorry but if you think that apples being the same (they aren't necessarily) means all the food that lands on your plate on every ship is therefore the same quality then you are sadly misinformed.  The food on Edge is very different from the other ships, and better.

[Mynki]

1 minute ago, jan-n-john said:

Sorry but if you think that apples being the same (they aren't necessarily) means all the food that lands on your plate on every ship is therefore the same quality then you are sadly misinformed.  The food on Edge is very different from the other ships, and better.

What makes the apples in the buffet on Edge better than the apples in the buffet on Equinox then? 

[jan-n-john]

7 minutes ago, Mynki said:

What makes the apples in the buffet on Edge better than the apples in the buffet on Equinox then? 

That's not what I said.  What I said was that while the apples may be the same, or not,  that tells you nothing about the quality of food on the ship.  The Edge's food is better, in my observation, because the menus are better and more up to date, and perhaps Miami is specifying better quality ingredients and choosing better-qualified personnel, but even if they aren't the new and more up-to-date menus alone make the food better on Edge. 

 

It's not rocket science.  It's logic, combined with facts.

Edited April 12, 2019 by jan-n-john

[Mynki]

2 minutes ago, jan-n-john said:

That's not what I said.  What I said was that while the apples may be the same, or not,  that tells you nothing about the quality of food on the ship.  The Edge's food is better, in my observation, because the menus are better and more up to date, and perhaps Miami is specifying better quality ingredients and choosing better-qualified personnel, but even if they aren't the new and more up-to-date menus alone make the food better on Edge. 

 

It's not rocket science.  It's logic, combined with facts.

Logic and facts? Interesting. Most people believe food is subjective. Are they all wrong? 

Are you sure the Luminae and Blu menu are different on Edge? Celebrity are very big on standardisation after all. 

[floridacruisers]

I know that Apex is the next one out the door. I think the next three Edge class ships should be named MOE, LARRY and CURLY...

JMHO.......

 

P.S. We'll go on the Edge as soon as the price is closer in line with the "S" class ships.

 

 Phil.....floridacruisers

 

[Oville]

12 minutes ago, Mynki said:

Logic and facts? Interesting. Most people believe food is subjective. Are they all wrong? 

Are you sure the Luminae and Blu menu are different on Edge? Celebrity are very big on standardisation after all. 

All the main dining rooms, Blu and Luminae are the same as other ships.  The difference is in the 4 MDRs there are regional specialty dishes that do not change each day.  For example, Normandie has additional French choices, Cyprus has Mediterranean options.

[vtcruising]

The Edge Luminae did roll out a new menu in January - not sure if that is fleetwide yet?  It was similar, but they did tweak the menu.

 

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2624217-edge-luminae-new-menus-now-serving-everyday-items/?tab=comments#comment-56564160

[BeeMinor]

On 4/11/2019 at 1:39 PM, Mynki said:

I would think so. Replacing IV cabins with traditional balconies would be an admission that they got it wrong after massive marketing hype. I just cannot imagine them going back on the design. 

I think it will be interesting to see if the next generation of ships they build will have them. Or if any other line employs the same concept. 

 

Silversea is using IVs on the ship it is currently building for Galapagos sailings. The overall ship appears to be heavily modeled on the Celebrity Flora, which also has IVs.

[jan-n-john]

2 hours ago, Oville said:

All the main dining rooms, Blu and Luminae are the same as other ships.  The difference is in the 4 MDRs there are regional specialty dishes that do not change each day.  For example, Normandie has additional French choices, Cyprus has Mediterranean options.

In addition, there are significant changes in the Specialties.  For one, Murano is gone, I guess you could say "replaced" by Eden.  Without too much exaggeration, there could hardly be two restaurants more different from each other than those two, and by the way that change perfectly encapsulates how Edge is designed to appeal to a younger crowd.  Downplay of fancy waiters and tableside preparations.  Grand Bistro/Little Chef is basically new.  Raw on Five is an extension of Sushi on Five but has different items.  Martini Bar has been tamed and has a totally different vibe. BBQ is being offered on Deck 15. And the offerings in Oceanview are different, with more fresh items, a more extensive breakfast selection (tho without much daily change), and more emphasis on grilled items, in short, a twist toward more healthy eating, or at least what many view as that. And I like the wash stations at the entrance, tho I was one of the few users -- if there is a Noro breakout, you can bet use of that area won't be optional, at least I hope not.

[jan-n-john]

2 hours ago, BeeMinor said:

 

Silversea is using IVs on the ship it is currently building for Galapagos sailings. The overall ship appears to be heavily modeled on the Celebrity Flora, which also has IVs.

It's essentially the same ship, built in the same yard.  It was originally going to be assigned to Celebrity but for whatever reason RCL decided to assign it to Silversea.  Stay tuned.

[jan-n-john]

3 hours ago, Mynki said:

Logic and facts? Interesting. Most people believe food is subjective. Are they all wrong? 

Are you sure the Luminae and Blu menu are different on Edge? Celebrity are very big on standardisation after all. 

Food is certainly subjective.  If for you that means Burger King is the equal of Per Se (or insert the British equivalents), that's fine.  Most people are capable of grasping the difference.

 

Luminae and Blu are available to only a small proportion of those on the ship, and thus are not really relevant to the broader discussion, unless you insist of course.  They probably haven't changed, but either way it doesn't change the basic point.  We used to go Aqua but gave it up long ago because Blu, the footstool, etc. didn't justify the price difference for us; in fact, Blu to me is probably the most boring restaurant of all time, with the traditional  MDR close behind.  JMHO.  We've never sprung for a suite and unless my portfolio takes a sudden huge upward leap probably never will, so I can't comment on Luminae.  Have to leave that for others more exalted.  

[Mynki]

11 hours ago, BeeMinor said:

 

Silversea is using IVs on the ship it is currently building for Galapagos sailings. The overall ship appears to be heavily modeled on the Celebrity Flora, which also has IVs.

Now that is a real shame. Particularly for ships offering a more upscale cruise experience. 

[Mynki]

8 hours ago, jan-n-john said:

Food is certainly subjective.  If for you that means Burger King is the equal of Per Se (or insert the British equivalents), that's fine.  Most people are capable of grasping the difference.

 

Luminae and Blu are available to only a small proportion of those on the ship, and thus are not really relevant to the broader discussion, unless you insist of course.  They probably haven't changed, but either way it doesn't change the basic point.  We used to go Aqua but gave it up long ago because Blu, the footstool, etc. didn't justify the price difference for us; in fact, Blu to me is probably the most boring restaurant of all time, with the traditional  MDR close behind.  JMHO.  We've never sprung for a suite and unless my portfolio takes a sudden huge upward leap probably never will, so I can't comment on Luminae.  Have to leave that for others more exalted.  

Interesting. Those who've seen beyond their own shores (And sadly not everyone has) would know that Burger King is found all around the globe. I'm not really sure why my nationality is of any relevance though. lol

 

You're the one making spurious claims about the food being better on Edge to which you offer zero evidence and then finally admit it is subjective! You also claim the food is different despite many menus being the same, not just in Blu and Lumnae. 

Perhaps a change in broker or more research might help with you joining the exalted ones? After all you've never experienced the best Celebrity has to offer until you've sailed suite class. Though whether or not the E class suite experience offers value for money when compared to the competition is very much a different discussion. 

P.S Have a look at SXX.L   ;) 

[jan-n-john]

Gosh yes, I am one of those provincial Americans.  You caught me.  Even tho I have lived (not visited, lived) in Switzerland, Chile, and Singapore, and visited probably 50 or so countries (real visits, not cruise stops), I never once noticed there are American fast food places anywhere except right here in the good ol' US of A.   I'm so grateful you pointed it out!   

 

I "admit" food is subjective?  Of course it's subjective.  Nevertheless, a reasonable person can accurately convey to another reasonable person that A is better than B.  Sadly, not everyone is reasonable.  Try it; it helps one's outlook on life. This may come as a shock, but even tho not all things can be quantified, that doesn't mean they are all the same.

 

As to culinary differences on the Edge, Edge has 8 (not a typo) specialty restaurants/eating places that are unique to it -- they don't appear on any other Celebrity ship.  There is also a ninth one (Petit Chef) which is being rolled out to the rest of the fleet, so OK, not unique.  Murano and Tuscan Grille have been eliminated, along with a few lesser others such as Lawn Club.  On top of that, Edge also has a new MDR setup, with four "main" restaurants in place of one on the other ships, each having a slightly different theme and menu variations.  There are also some new twists in Oceanview.  So we're up to maybe (objective count) 13 different dining experiences on Edge compared with the rest of the fleet. But if you wish to claim that the food is the same on this ship, that's your privilege. 

 

I'll say it one last time and then I'm done with this discussion which has turned boring.  I'm a foodie (tho I don't care for the word).  Good dining is the main thing I look for when cruising or traveling in any manner.  In my opinion, based on a recent trip on Edge, food on the Edge is more interesting and better than I have experienced over many trips on the rest of the fleet dining in practically every venue.  If you don't agree, good for you.

 

Oh, and thank you for your concern but I will remain perfectly happy not joining the exalted ones in the suites.  I sail Regent or Crystal, not Celebrity, when I'm looking for an upscale luxury experience.  And BTW the food is definitely better on those.

 

[RickT]

On 4/11/2019 at 2:14 PM, Mynki said:

Is Constellation still up for sale? I know it was a year or so ago. 

Just went yachtworld.com and there is an M-Class ship listed. $350 Million.

[Mynki]

51 minutes ago, jan-n-john said:

Gosh yes, I am one of those provincial Americans.  You caught me.  Even tho I have lived (not visited, lived) in Switzerland, Chile, and Singapore, and visited probably 50 or so countries (real visits, not cruise stops), I never once noticed there are American fast food places anywhere except right here in the good ol' US of A.   I'm so grateful you pointed it out!   

 

I "admit" food is subjective?  Of course it's subjective.  Nevertheless, a reasonable person can accurately convey to another reasonable person that A is better than B.  Sadly, not everyone is reasonable.  Try it; it helps one's outlook on life. This may come as a shock, but even tho not all things can be quantified, that doesn't mean they are all the same.

 

As to culinary differences on the Edge, Edge has 8 (not a typo) specialty restaurants/eating places that are unique to it -- they don't appear on any other Celebrity ship.  There is also a ninth one (Petit Chef) which is being rolled out to the rest of the fleet, so OK, not unique.  Murano and Tuscan Grille have been eliminated, along with a few lesser others such as Lawn Club.  On top of that, Edge also has a new MDR setup, with four "main" restaurants in place of one on the other ships, each having a slightly different theme and menu variations.  There are also some new twists in Oceanview.  So we're up to maybe (objective count) 13 different dining experiences on Edge compared with the rest of the fleet. But if you wish to claim that the food is the same on this ship, that's your privilege. 

 

I'll say it one last time and then I'm done with this discussion which has turned boring.  I'm a foodie (tho I don't care for the word).  Good dining is the main thing I look for when cruising or traveling in any manner.  In my opinion, based on a recent trip on Edge, food on the Edge is more interesting and better than I have experienced over many trips on the rest of the fleet dining in practically every venue.  If you don't agree, good for you.

 

Oh, and thank you for your concern but I will remain perfectly happy not joining the exalted ones in the suites.  I sail Regent or Crystal, not Celebrity, when I'm looking for an upscale luxury experience.  And BTW the food is definitely better on those.

 

I actually stated food quality was the same. You've been unable to back up your argument and provide any evidence so you've resulted to twisting what I'm saying now. But thanks, it shows you've proved my point. :) 

I take my hat off to LLP and her marketing team though, if they can convince a deluded few that the apples and oranges are better on Edge as compared to the rest of the fleet they've done a fabulous job! 

Better luck with the stock picks in the future then.  :)