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No more cruises to Cuba?

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, el-gee-bee-tea-jew said:

Hawaiidan, that's a reasonable point...but if we take every country that hasn't financed an oppressive regime off the "to see" list, it eliminates virtually the entire globe. Seriously, name some countries that haven't either financed an oppressive regime in another country or been led by its own oppressive regime that's unaccountable to the people.  I'm coming up empty.  Holding Cuba - and Cuba only - to this standard is absurd particularly when Russia is providing more aid to both Cuba and Venezuela than Cuba could ever dream of doing, and there's no limit on travel to Russia.

Thats a good point...we all can ponder.   The difference, as I see it, is Cuba is  in our neighborhood.  The actions of Cuba have had a direct effect on ourselves and that of our neighbor countries.    Its sort of like  if you had a crack house down the block from your home you would be concerned for yourself and neighbors.

You would be less concerned than if it were across town.

I see a big difference in you reasons, as you say of  countries that have not financed an oppressive regime at one time or another.  The fact is that most of the worlds countries  that have, have not continued to do so today.    Cuba is very active since 1960 doing this......   That is  the difference I see   You can disagree if you so choose...

Edited by Hawaiidan

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Cuba and Venezuela have been in bed with each other for 100 years.  Their governments are intertwined.  They exchange people for goods and Cuba has sent thousands of troops to Venezuela to act as their pseudo military.  Russia, on the other hand is in Venezuela for financial reasons.  Russia needs oil from Venezuela so they support the current repressive government.  Kind of like we need oil from the Saudis so we support their oppressive government.  Wait, the Saudi’s only repress 50% of their population, I guess that makes us different from the Russians.

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6 minutes ago, the more ports the better said:

Cuba and Venezuela have been in bed with each other for 100 years.  Their governments are intertwined.  They exchange people for goods and Cuba has sent thousands of troops to Venezuela to act as their pseudo military.  Russia, on the other hand is in Venezuela for financial reasons.  Russia needs oil from Venezuela so they support the current repressive government.  Kind of like we need oil from the Saudis so we support their oppressive government.  Wait, the Saudi’s only repress 50% of their population, I guess that makes us different from the Russians.

We actually do not need oil from the Saudi's  We produce more than they  today..   We are a exporter of oil today.    We buy from the Saudi s to give stability to the region.   In the region they are the lesser of 4 evils .

Russia is in Venezuela  for both economic, political and military expansion reason.  So yes the US relation is somewhat different   

If  in fact Cuban soldiers are in Venezuela.... then I think that there is a very strong chance of a total embargo as  I read prior.     

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On 4/17/2019 at 10:05 PM, cloudninecat said:

There is a difference between an itinerary and a destination. I booked a cruise that was listed as a "Cuba" cruise. It will be like booking one for Alaska and going to Canada instead. It's not what you booked. Now if I booked a Caribbean cruise that goes to St Thomas and they change it to St Maarten instead that's an itinerary change. I may have really wanted to go to St Thomas but it wasn't booked as a St Thomas cruise.  If they have to change the destination they should offer you the chance to cancel without penalty. 

 

On 4/18/2019 at 8:53 PM, JPR said:

So would anyone here want to go to Venezuela today? The regime is murdering its citizens, with the protection of Cuban troops. 

How many of &n

 

42 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

We actually do not need oil from the Saudi's  We produce more than they  today..   We are a exporter of oil today.    We buy from the Saudi s to give stability to the region.   In the region they are the lesser of 4 evils .

Russia is in Venezuela  for both economic, political and military expansion reason.  So yes the US relation is somewhat different   

If  in fact Cuban soldiers are in Venezuela.... then I think that there is a very strong chance of a total embargo as  I read prior.     

 

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How many of you posting have actually been to Venezuela? Lived in Venezuela? Worked in Venezuela? Have friends in Venezuela? Have Cuban Exile friends?

 

We lived and worked in Venezuela for many years. I had a bodyguard, our friends were kidnapped at the airport.......We also have friends who escaped Castro through Mexico. I know a little of what is happening.

 

Venezuela was once like the Garden of Eden not long ago.....full of natural resources and the best weather on the planet.  There was a thriving middle class.  Then the Castro brothers started meddling. Chavez instigated a coup and should have been executed but Caldero released him from  prison. Fidel became his mentor and Cuban mercenaries became his private army. Chavez went to Havana for medical care even though most  Venezuelan  doctors were trained in the US.

It has been downhill since the day Chavez was released from prison. Maduro was hand picked by Chavez when Chavez realized his time was up. Maduro was a bus driver picked off the streets of Caracas.

 

Venezuela is now Paradise Lost thanks to the thugs in Havana.

 

The Russians and Chinese are there for the oil but the government thugs have destroyed the oil infrastructure by stealing everything not bolted down. "

 

We bailed on our Cuba cruise on Monday. We were able to find an Eastern Caribbean cruise within our time frame.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Hawaiidan said:

A  new development as of today as Cuban military are possibly helping the socialist Venezuela president stop his coup. 

 The US state dept has  just today said if that is the case  the US will put full embargo on Cuba.   They have already,  I think, closed the embassy.

On another note, as Jan pointed out... our dollars are fueling an oppressive dictatorship  which has for 50 years spread terrorism and violence  throughout  latin america.....   Nothing really has changed 

   

The poor people of Cuba continue to suffer as long as we finance their oppressors...  Yes .you want to see Cuba... but at what price will you make the people there pay for you jaunt ????   

 

We cut off contact when Fidel Castro took over.   That didn't change regimes and it's been  sixty years. Other western countries continued tourism.  Our "jaunt" has little impact in my opinion.

Edited by HokiePoq

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2 minutes ago, HokiePoq said:

We cut off contact when Fidel Castro took over.   That didn't change regimes and it's been forty years.

But it stopped a lot more from expanding...Grenada, Bolivia?   It didnt change it..  It forced a lot of change in Cuba.  Things take time... we still have Raul...  to deal with   too soon to back off in my opinion.....  We  made a  shortsighted political driven decision to give the regime a break    Like Venezuela  things wont change  till the people revolt when it gets too bad...sad but true

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32 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

But it stopped a lot more from expanding...Grenada, Bolivia?   It didnt change it..  It forced a lot of change in Cuba.  Things take time... we still have Raul...  to deal with   too soon to back off in my opinion.....  We  made a  shortsighted political driven decision to give the regime a break    Like Venezuela  things wont change  till the people revolt when it gets too bad...sad but true

+ 1

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Different topic, but we do not export oil, we export refined petroleum products. To meet our daily gasoline usage needs we need to refine about 20 million barrels of oil per day. At 100% capacity, where we’re never at, we have refining capacity for about 18.5 million. The US is producing around 11.5 million barrels per day now, up from 9 million a couple of years ago. Therefore, we have to import about 7 million barrels per day of crude plus extra gasoline to meet our needs. 

 

We import about 2 million barrels per day from Venezuela. This is heavy crappy crude that can only be refined, here in the US, at four refineries. As a political note, the two million barrels per day the current government wants to bring down from Canada via the XL Pipeline is oil to replace the Venezuelan crude. Not only are their fields getting older and declining, but their political instability makes it better to get the crude from Canada.

 

Gasoline represents about 48% of the refinery stream from crude. Some of petroleum products produced from the other 52% of those streams are far in excess of our needs. It is those products that have long been exported, not crude!

 

Back to cruising!

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21 hours ago, the more ports the better said:

Cuba and Venezuela have been in bed with each other for 100 years.  Their governments are intertwined.  They exchange people for goods and Cuba has sent thousands of troops to Venezuela to act as their pseudo military.  Russia, on the other hand is in Venezuela for financial reasons.  Russia needs oil from Venezuela so they support the current repressive government.  Kind of like we need oil from the Saudis so we support their oppressive government.  Wait, the Saudi’s only repress 50% of their population, I guess that makes us different from the Russians.

 

Utterly ridiculous.

Russia produces 4x as much oil as Venezuela:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

 

Russia supports Maduro because it supports its client states' dictators to the hilt (cf. Syria). 

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So back to the topic at hand, we just booked Cuba on Oceania for December 2019 and looking forward to suggestions on shore excursions.   We will be there for NYE and make three port stops.  Oceania has an extensive list of shore excursions so it's a little hard to pick.  

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1 hour ago, ATSEAMYLIFE said:

So back to the topic at hand, we just booked Cuba on Oceania for December 2019 and looking forward to suggestions on shore excursions.   We will be there for NYE and make three port stops.  Oceania has an extensive list of shore excursions so it's a little hard to pick.  

There is lots of good information about Cuba on the Ports of Call section of CC with tours and guides recommendations

You could also look at the roll calls of other Oceania Cuba cruises to see what others are planning to do.

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On 5/6/2019 at 8:19 PM, ATSEAMYLIFE said:

So back to the topic at hand, we just booked Cuba on Oceania for December 2019 and looking forward to suggestions on shore excursions.   We will be there for NYE and make three port stops.  Oceania has an extensive list of shore excursions so it's a little hard to pick.  

I believe we are booked on the same cruise, leaving Dec. 21 from Los Angeles through Panama Canal to Miami, than Miami around Cuba and back to Miami. I am considering cancelling the Cuba section. These two legs of the cruise were advertised separately on the Oceania website. Deadline to cancel is June as far as I can tell. Have not discussed with TA yet, my spouse and travelling friends are reluctant to do anything until the situation is clarified..however I do not want to pay for this expensive leg of the cruise and have port changes to places we have already been. Any thoughts?

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Thank you for getting back to the topic at hand 👍

 

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Yes. Some really ignorant commentary. Cuba’s actions in Venezuela crossed every line. We are doing the right thing.

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11 hours ago, JPR said:

Yes. Some really ignorant commentary. Cuba’s actions in Venezuela crossed every line. We are doing the right thing.

 

11 hours ago, JPR said:

Yes. Some really ignorant commentary. Cuba’s actions in Venezuela crossed every line. We are doing the right thing.

WE sure are doing the right thing.  

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Let’s also keep in mind that Cuba and Venezuela are by far the most oppressive police states in our hemisphere and have also made it clear that they are enemies of the United States by their words and actions. According to 60 Minutes, Cuba deliberately used sonic waves to damage the health of our embassy personnel in Havana.

 

The closest analogies today outside of our hemisphere are Russia, Iran, Syria, and of course North Korea, and we would not visit any of them either. Unfortunately, Turkey is moving in that direction too....

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On 5/12/2019 at 8:30 AM, JPR said:

Let’s also keep in mind that Cuba and Venezuela are by far the most oppressive police states in our hemisphere and have also made it clear that they are enemies of the United States by their words and actions. According to 60 Minutes, Cuba deliberately used sonic waves to damage the health of our embassy personnel in Havana.

 

The closest analogies today outside of our hemisphere are Russia, Iran, Syria, and of course North Korea, and we would not visit any of them either. Unfortunately, Turkey is moving in that direction too.....

Turkey  already has crossed  it a few years back.. How about Burma too.  I agree with your rational  totally.   It amazes me people choose to ignore the obvious and that their visits give the regimes the hard cash they need to keep on doing what they are doing.   It may be s few dollars here  and there  but it adds up and becomes an ethical  situation.

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I can imagine people on Cruise Critic in Cuba, Venezuela, Turkey and Burma saying the same things about the U. S. now.

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23 minutes ago, wripro said:

I can imagine people on Cruise Critic in Cuba, Venezuela, Turkey and Burma saying the same things about the U. S. now.

Don't think many of those people are allowed to have internet and where they do those country's keep their people so poor that they can't afford to have it.  So therefor they are probably not saying anything.  

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I am booked on an Oceania cruise to Cuba in November. I have not heard that it is changed or canceled. Anyone hear different? I have traveled to Russia and China in the last year. I want to visit Cuba because I fear the world is closing up again.

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Wripro wrote “I can imagine people on Cruise Critic in Cuba, Venezuela, Turkey and Burma saying the same things about the U. S. now.

 

Huh?  So what? That’s classic sophomoric moral relativism. Do you mean the people in their corrupt and police state governments or the people oppressed by them? I’m surprised you left out Norh Korea. Would you have written the same thing about the Germany and Japanese people during WWII?

 

And you’re wrong to boot. Even the liberal press has found overwhelming support for Trump and the U.S. among the Venezuelan people. The people we spoke with in Cuba generally would love to have U.S.-style freedom and prosperity, and recognize that the country is crumbling while it exports its military and essentially enslaved physicians to other countries for hard currency. Erdogan just lost a key election in Istanbul (which like Maduro he has undemocratically overturned on totally specious grounds) and is increasingly unpopular there. (At least Turkey is still in NATO, for now. ) And Burma/Myanmar is at least as repressive as any of them, so who knows what its people think.

 

You have the right to go wherever you want (subject to U.S, Law, State Department policies, and that country’s rules) , even, say, Iran. But know that when you visit these these countries, your hard currency is going to the primary benefit of totalitarian regimes.

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The xenophobia on  this site is becoming absurd. I am booked on a cruise to Cuba in July. I don't consider myself unethical or un American. Give it up folks.

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9 hours ago, oceanbill457 said:

The xenophobia on  this site is becoming absurd. I am booked on a cruise to Cuba in July. I don't consider myself unethical or un American. Give it up folks.

Just the reality of how badly the people in there country's are repressed.  To sit here and say there is nothing we can do, so it is O.K. to let it go on.  So sad. 

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Never mind, I’ll check the Oceania site. I’m of the Rick Steve’s mind, “travel gives us a broader perspective.”

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