Pre-cruise: Zurich to Civitavecchia via Cinque Terre

[Bruin Steve]

I just booked back-to-back cruises out of Rome for July 2020...

Typically, we will fly in anywhere from 2-10 nights early...and spend a little time either in the area of our embarkation port--or elsewhere in the region.  In the past few years, when cruising out of Italy, we've spent time pre- or post-cruise in Orvieto, in Tivoli, in Florence, and driving from Milan to Venice via Merano, Verona and Padua...

Looking for something a little different this time...

 

First thought (and we've got 14 months to plan this) is, perhaps to fly into Zurich, spend a few days in Switzerland (we haven't been there--except passing through St. Moriitz on the way from Milan to Merano--in over 35 years)...then a short stop at the Cinque Terre...before making it to the ship in Civitavecchia. We can probably manage at least a week--maybe an extra day or two more than that if needed (Obviously, we haven't booked the air yet this early)...

 

We could do this by rental car, ending in Civitavecchia...or by train...

 

Where would you recommend stopping in Switzerland?  How many days in each town?  Where in the Cinque Terre?  How long?

Any other recommendations?  Anything not to miss?

 

Thanks...

[euro cruiser]

The Cinque Terre in July does not sound attractive, the crowds are insane.  It's also not a place for a car, you'd need to find a place to park it while you are there.

 

Switzerland sounds great to me, I've only ever changed planes there and it's on my list of places to get to.

 

Even if you do decide to travel by car, one of these train rides sounds like a great idea: https://www.travelandleisure.com/articles/best-train-trips-switzerland

[Bruin Steve]

24 minutes ago, euro cruiser said:

The Cinque Terre in July does not sound attractive, the crowds are insane.  It's also not a place for a car, you'd need to find a place to park it while you are there.

 

Know that I am aware there are better times to travel in this region other than July...however, for us, this is not a question of choice.  My wife works for a school district and we are tied into taking vacations only during school vacation times.  July is our one window for longer trips.

 

As to driving in the Cinque Terre, my thought was not to take a car through there--rather to stay in La Spezia, Livorno or elsewhere and visiting with a guide or organized tour as a "day trip"...My daughter did this last year while visiting Florence...

[cruisemom42]

There are a lot of other options you might consider instead of Cinque Terre (I'm afraid I agree with euro cruiser regarding the summer crowds -- I don't know how you'd get any sense of the charm of the place).

 

You could head to the Piedmont region and see Turin. Somewhere I've always wanted to go to is Aosta (an ancient Roman city originally). Or you could do some driving in the Lombardy region.

 

Frances Mayes just came out with a new "guidebook" of sorts (See You in the Piazza) that describes a number of smaller Italian towns, from the North to the South of the country -- with tourist places like the Cinque Terre getting ever more crowded, I think it would be a great idea to check out her book (or other regional guides). Italy has such a variety of interesting towns and cities that are not (yet) tourist magnets. Go to see them, it will be an experience.

 

 

 

 

[John Bull]

The secret of great Alpine scenery and traffic-free roads is to take to the mountain passes on the "old" main roads - through-traffic and trucks all take the modern motorways and tunnels. The cost is only your time, but if you drive for the journey as much as for the destination, this is the way to go.

 

Get past Zurich soonest - it's a bland modern city full of bean-counting gnomes - and book your first two nights (minimum) in Lucerne, something under an hour's drive from the airport..

Lucerne will charm you for whatever time you have left of the day you arrive.

Buy a "Golden Round-Trip" at the tourist office in Lucerne rail station on the next day - lake paddle-steamer, cog railway to the top of Mt Pilatus, gondola & ski-lift back down, short local bus ride back to Lucerne. (but best done in the opposite direction).

It'll take you the best part of a full day.

https://www.pilatus.ch/en/discover/golden-round-trip/

There are other sights and activities in and near Lucerne - they'd cost you another day or two.

 

Lucerne to Interlaken is about an hour by the direct main road thro the valley.

Or a little over 3 hrs if you follow the lake shores then take the Susten Pass for your first real taste of the Alps.

https://goo.gl/maps/8wNfWDAjGmMrCLXQ9

And add a little detour to Grindelwald for the best view of the Eiger, and / or the little village of Lauterbrunnen.

One night in Interlaken, two if you want to take the train to "the top of the world". 

https://www.jungfrau.ch/shop/en/

This is a tricky one to recommend. The Jungfraujoch train is expensive and pre-booking is recommended - but if the weather isn't clear it's not worth the waste of a day, let alone the cost of the tickets. Can be booked to start in Interlaken or Grindelwald.

 

The Italian border on Lake Maggiore is something over 4 hrs by the route I'm suggesting, so it's worthy of an overnight thereabouts.

From Interlaken, retrace your steps along the lake then take the Grimsel Pass to Gletch. Here you can walk inside the glacier.

Then past the glacier and up the Furka Pass toward Andermatt

(nb - Googlemaps won't let me take you that way. I'm guessing that's because it doesn't open til sometime in May - I've had similar problems in Winter & Spring when planning Summer routes elsewhere in the world including the US of A).

Just before Andermatt take the old Highway 2 south through the St Gotthard Pass and on to Lake Maggiore. 

Highway 2 old & new roads cross each-other a number of times heading down this valley, so from this point onward on you can save time (at the expense of leisurely scenic driving) by switching to the fast road. 

https://goo.gl/maps/5rWmcGGPyKj8DfND7

 

https://expertworldtravel.com/epic-roads-drive-passes-switzerland/

 

You're now 7 hrs from Civi.

There are stax of variations on this route, others might suggest some of them.

 

Consider Ferrari at Modena & Maranello.

Consider Portofino (if you have deep pockets)

If you're going to consider Cinque Terre  buy a day-pass on trains at La Spezia station - but our day there was awful due to the crowds. On a tuesday. In mid-September.👎

 

JB 

 

[Bruin Steve]

10 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

There are a lot of other options you might consider instead of Cinque Terre (I'm afraid I agree with euro cruiser regarding the summer crowds -- I don't know how you'd get any sense of the charm of the place).

 

You could head to the Piedmont region and see Turin. Somewhere I've always wanted to go to is Aosta (an ancient Roman city originally). Or you could do some driving in the Lombardy region.

 

Frances Mayes just came out with a new "guidebook" of sorts (See You in the Piazza) that describes a number of smaller Italian towns, from the North to the South of the country -- with tourist places like the Cinque Terre getting ever more crowded, I think it would be a great idea to check out her book (or other regional guides). Italy has such a variety of interesting towns and cities that are not (yet) tourist magnets. Go to see them, it will be an experience.

 

I think I noted that on our last visit, we spent time in Orvieto and Tivoli...But, aside from the major Italian cities (Rome, Florence, Venice, Milan)...and the multiple cruise ports we've visited (Ravenna, Bari, Catania, Naxos, Amalfi, Naples, Livorno) we have also visited from those cruise ports or visited on land trips(San Marino, Alberobello, Capri, Taormina, Etna, Positano, Ravello, Sorrento, Pompeii, Herculaneum, Tarquinia, Pitigliano, Sienna, San Gimigniano, Voltera, Pisa, Lucca, Lake Como, Merano, Verona, Padua...plus all of those places we've been to while driving between a lot of those places.

 

The only place of major note that we seemed to have missed somehow is the Cinque Terre...

 

I guess what I'm trying to do with this one is, really, to visit somewhere OTHER THAN Italy this time (though, of course, on our back-to-back cruises, we'll have several stops IN Italy:  Aside from Civitavecchia, we have port stops in Messina, Venice and Naples.  So, really, the main point of this inquiry is what to see in Switzerland...and, hopefully, working in a visit to the Cinque Terre on the way down to Civitavecchia--even if just a day trip amongst the crowds whilst staying a couple of nights in La Spezia or Florence...

 

I believe the drive from Zurich to Civitavecchia is only about 8-10 total hours of driving...so, say leaving 3 nights of the 7-9 after a last stop somewhere in Switzerland (or, perhaps, Chamonix?), we could split that drive into two shorter drives, staying somewhere NEAR the Cinque Terre in between, perhaps?

[Bruin Steve]

11 minutes ago, John Bull said:

The secret of great Alpine scenery and traffic-free roads is to take to the mountain passes on the "old" main roads - through-traffic and trucks all take the modern motorways and tunnels. The cost is only your time, but if you drive for the journey as much as for the destination, this is the way to go....

JB 

 

 

Thank you, JB...This is the sort of advice I was seeking...

My wife and I were in Lucerne as part of our honeymoon (many years ago) and have fond memories...Prior to that, when I was a college student, I had visited--and went on a gondola up the Schilthorn...and hiked down--ALONE-- in a very unsummer-like snow storm--in July!  Two days, spending the night as the only guest here:

 

https://muerren.swiss/en/summer/content/eatstay/gastronomie/schilthorn-hut/

 

...quite a memorable experience...

[euro cruiser]

Rather than La Spezia, which is perfectly nice but kind of vanilla, consider staying in Portovenere.  You can get the ferries to Cinque Terre from there and it's a beautiful little waterfront town, with enough restaurants and a range of hotels to choose from.  There's also a large municipal parking garage where you can safely leave the car.

Edited May 2, 2019 by euro cruiser

[cruisemom42]

15 minutes ago, Bruin Steve said:

 

I guess what I'm trying to do with this one is, really, to visit somewhere OTHER THAN Italy this time (though, of course, on our back-to-back cruises, we'll have several stops IN Italy:  Aside from Civitavecchia, we have port stops in Messina, Venice and Naples.  So, really, the main point of this inquiry is what to see in Switzerland...and, hopefully, working in a visit to the Cinque Terre on the way down to Civitavecchia--even if just a day trip amongst the crowds whilst staying a couple of nights in La Spezia or Florence...

 

 

 

Sorry, guilty as charged. (It is the Italy forum, after all....😎). I have no experience with Switzerland other than a brief visit 40 years ago. 

 

But for others (or for other trips), there are many fascinating places in Italy that deserve time, if one wants to explore Italy.

 

I've always wanted to spend a real "Italian" beach holiday in Gaeta -- stayed there a few days and would like to go back, maybe take a ferry to the Pontine islands. 

 

And Lecce, which I discovered last year, is a gorgeous city with a lot to explore. 

 

And Umbria...

 

And lots more.

 

Anyway, good luck with your latest travels. 

 

 

[John Bull]

12 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

 

 

https://muerren.swiss/en/summer/content/eatstay/gastronomie/schilthorn-hut/

 

.

 

 

No thanks, Steve. 

I'm now way too knackered and unfit for that 

 

BTW via Chamonix is way less scenic than other options - mainly through valleys and a long tunnel under the most scenic part.

 

Came across this neat video about the Jungfraujoch.

There's more to it than I'd thought.

But, as the guy acknowledges, he was lucky (or should that be "not unlucky") with the weather.

 

JB 

 

[BarbinMich]

FWIW, we've have spent whole weeks in some of the places you or others have mentioned, using them as a base for day trips (these were small group tours).  For example, our first trip to Europe was a one-week (8-9 days counting air travel to/from) group tour to Lucerne.  From there we did several day trips into southern Germany and to Swiss towns like Interlaken & Bern, a ride on the Glacier Express, etc.  We had one free day in Lucerne to enjoy what it has to offer.  We have done something similar in Italy, staying for a few days in a mountain town with visits to Assisi, Orvieto, etc. and a few days in a "spa" town outside Rome.  Your itinerary sounds like a lot of time in your car.

[Host Bonjour]

I get it about Zurich and Cinque Terre, and wanting to see Switzerland by rail (didn't that come up in the thread....well...it was spectacular going from Zurich to Lugano, bringing me to....)

 

So....

 

On my very first trip to Europe, which was by rail and planned for me by a well-traveled friend who went often for business and pleasure at the same time I think, I was in Zurich but not really. I actually stayed down the lake in a place called Rapperswil which was actually charming, has a 12th century (or 13th?) small castle, market days, a uniformed band that appeared in the square for reasons I never ascertained, pretty gardens and other delights including swans-a-plenty swimming just outside yes, Hotel Schwanen where I stayed. Regular trains went into Zurich fast and easy and to be honest, I found the city to be interesting but then I am a city person and I had some places of interest I wanted to see and other things that surprised me unexpectedly. 

From there I took the train down to Lugano - my aunt and uncle were there just last week and while I haven't yet had the direct verbal account, the online reports seem to be glowing and I'm glad because I suggested Lugano to them as an add-on to Como. They were thinking Maggiore which would be phenomenal but isn't easy to access by bus/train the way they wanted from Como and then back to Milano. Allora, I really like Lugano a lot anyway - when I was there in Switzerland (!!) I could think of only one other place I love like it (surprisingly, it's way up north in NYS near Canada and Vermont near mountains too, and yes, tends to be cold!) and yet, it has that Italian but it's still Switzerland thing going on, following that brilliant train ride. Imagine it'd be kind of busy in July too, but probably more so with other Europeans or whomever tourists than....whomever else? I don't know. 

 

And yes, the other regions cruisemom mention are worth looking into as well. I watched a crime series on Netflix recently....it was set in the Aosta region and on that alone, I was all "add that to the list!" of places to get to, along with places like Trieste and yes, Piemonte, etc., Dolomites....bit more work to get there but when you see what's there, you kind of get it. Cinque Terre was once this way. I remember when my friend first told me about it in the 90's and sent me the tiniest guide book as a gift/incentive to go an visit this 'unknown' place, the guide wasn't even a half inch thick and published by, I don't know, the same company Wile E. Coyote bought all his stuff to catch Road Runner with that as yet has proved fruitless; the guidebook was a success though. 😉

 

JB has given you some great advice on other alternatives in Switzerland...Interlaken was on my preliminary "first Euro-trip" and I was excited about that possibility too but as I wasn't in charge of making it, nor brave enough to do so (I sooooo needed to be pushed into doing the trip and was grateful for the nudge!) that I welcomed the assist and whatever choices ultimately made, I decided to trust because they all sounded great and they were. If I could have done them all, I would have, including Interlaken....look at it! My sister also loved Lucerne, she went there with her husband pre-kids. Honestly....it's Switzerland....pick a place. There's no bad choices here, really. Even Geneva, the "work" city - would I turn down a chance to go there if it's my ONLY option? Not really. It's on a lake, it's in Switzerland, they've got some of the best trains, restaurants and probably even unsold rooms available in the world. I'm going. But since there's lots of other places in Switzerland to choose from....well, you've got options and....Geneva is kind of to the west a bit but...anyway, you've been there before, you know. 

 

PS: Last year my aunt and uncle went to Cinque Terre too but....also in April. They loved it, it was not too crowded. But....if your heart is set on Cinque Terre, try to pick a day when as few ships are in port and/or smallest ships, and/or Mon/Tues/Weds because summer and the weekends.....challenging....I'm haunted by a Saturday in Paris in July. I avoid my own city in season - I mean, Manhattan and many attractions. But not always, and sometimes I'm pleasantly surprised. A lot of the time you have to just do it and go anyway but....know before you go and so you will. Have options and a plan. Everything will be alright 🙂

 

 

[ollienbertsmum]

On 5/1/2019 at 11:17 PM, Bruin Steve said:

..We could do this by rental car, ending in Civitavecchia...or by train...

 

?

 

Thanks...

 I have scrolled down and cannot see if anyone else has addressed this - but surely the cost of hiring a car in Switzerland and leaving it in Italy would be really high.  

 

 

Have you considered doing the pre-cruise road trip to Croatia/Slovenia/Albania and then doing a short flight to Rome??

[Bruin Steve]

11 hours ago, ollienbertsmum said:

Have you considered doing the pre-cruise road trip to Croatia/Slovenia/Albania and then doing a short flight to Rome??

 

We've actually been to Dubrovnik several times, Kotor twice, Split and Koper...also Corfu three times...

And THIS cruise (actually back-to-backs) visits Rijeka, Zadar, Split, Kotor twice and Corfu...

[John Bull]

16 hours ago, ollienbertsmum said:

 I have scrolled down and cannot see if anyone else has addressed this - but surely the cost of hiring a car in Switzerland and leaving it in Italy would be really high.  

 

 

Have you considered doing the pre-cruise road trip to Croatia/Slovenia/Albania and then doing a short flight to Rome??

 

5 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

 

We've actually been to Dubrovnik several times, Kotor twice, Split and Koper...also Corfu three times...

And THIS cruise (actually back-to-backs) visits Rijeka, Zadar, Split, Kotor twice and Corfu...

 

 

When we drove the Balkans (beautiful) by car rented in Croatia (and returned to the same airport) we learned that some Italian rental agencies wouldn't permit their cars to be driven into some Balkan countries. Same might apply to Swiss rentals.

 

Renting one-way Switzerland to Italy would be less-fraught, I don't know the one-way fee but I'm guessing it would be very heavy.

Renting in Switzerland, returning in Switzerland, and then completing the journey to Civi by air or rail might be less-expensive.

 

JB 

[Bruin Steve]

In the past, we've rented cars in:

--Italy ...and returned in Germany...

--France...and returned in Italy...and in...

--Italy , returning in Italy, but driving through Switzerland...

 

...among other rentals...

We've never hard any car rental agency restrict where we could take the car...

Yes, it can be a bit expensive...but we've learned a few things--like, a better deal to rent through Kemwel than directly through Hertz.

 

For this one, I'm thinking it may makes sense to stay in, maybe, four towns, at least two for multiple days--Say, depending on when we can get a flight into Zurich, to head to Lucerne for maybe one night, then to Interlaken, perhaps for three nights--using it as a base, then down to the Cinque Terre are and spend three nights--perhaps in Portovenere, as Euro Cruiser recommended, then down to Civitavecchia for just the night before the cruise...

 

It may make sense to use the trains in Switzerland to go from Zurich to Lucerne to Interlaken...and rely on local transportation to explore from there...and then down to Portovenere, using the ferries to explore the Cinque Terre...Then to rent a car for just one day in Portovenere/La Spezia to use to drive directly to Civitavecchia (last visit, we used the trains to go from Rome to Orvieto--then rented a car for one day in Orvieto and returned it in Civitavecchia--which was not very expensive at all...and more convenient since the trains all route via Rome and train changes can be an adventure).

 

I notice that we could buy "Swiss Travel Passes":

 

https://www.sbb.ch/en/leisure-holidays/travel-in-switzerland/international-guests/swiss-travel-pass.html

 

...that allow for unlimited rail travel plus buses, boats and museums for $281 (actually in Swiss Francs--but the exchange rate is currently about 1:1 with the US $) pp for 4 days or $232 pp for 3 days.  I'm wondering if that might not be the best way to get around Switzerland...Then I'd guess we'd need a single trip fare from Interlaken to La Spezia...Anyone have an opinion of the rail pass versus just buying trains on a fare by fare basis?

 

[bennybear]

 

We've visit Switzerland several times, my family emigrated from there many years ago. Recently, we  spent a week a few years ago in Switzerland, it was incredible!   We stayed in a small village in a hotel from the 1600s!   It was near Lake Neufchâtel,  and near La Chaux  de fonds where they make the high end watches.    You could take a train into Berne, drive to the train to the Jungfrau or visit Gimmelwald.  Driving was an adventure and we headed to Italy via Lugano.  The Italian canton and town of Bellinzona were incredible.

 

Being a fellow Italophile and teacher I understand about the cinque terre,  but with high temperatures and crowds....  the Lake District of Italy is incredible, we loved Garda and Sermione for some other ideas.     

 

Other suggestions, visit the Italian riviera and amazing Villa Grock in Imperial, now the national clown museum.  I second the area around Trieste as a place that could give the Cinque Terre a run for its money.  Also agree with Cruisemom, loved Lecce and the whole Deep South Italy,  Matera, Alberobello....   A whole region waiting to be explored away from the maddening crowds.  

[ollienbertsmum]

On 5/16/2019 at 3:21 AM, Bruin Steve said:

In the past, we've rented cars in:

--Italy ...and returned in Germany...

--France...and returned in Italy...and in...

--Italy , returning in Italy, but driving through Switzerland...

 

...among other rentals...

We've never hard any car rental agency restrict where we could take the car...

Yes, it can be a bit expensive...but we've learned a few things--like, a better deal to rent through Kemwel than directly through Hertz.

 

For this one, I'm thinking it may makes sense to stay in, maybe, four towns, at least two for multiple days--Say, depending on when we can get a flight into Zurich, to head to Lucerne for maybe one night, then to Interlaken, perhaps for three nights--using it as a base, then down to the Cinque Terre are and spend three nights--perhaps in Portovenere, as Euro Cruiser recommended, then down to Civitavecchia for just the night before the cruise...

 

It may make sense to use the trains in Switzerland to go from Zurich to Lucerne to Interlaken...and rely on local transportation to explore from there...and then down to Portovenere, using the ferries to explore the Cinque Terre...Then to rent a car for just one day in Portovenere/La Spezia to use to drive directly to Civitavecchia (last visit, we used the trains to go from Rome to Orvieto--then rented a car for one day in Orvieto and returned it in Civitavecchia--which was not very expensive at all...and more convenient since the trains all route via Rome and train changes can be an adventure).

 

I notice that we could buy "Swiss Travel Passes":

 

https://www.sbb.ch/en/leisure-holidays/travel-in-switzerland/international-guests/swiss-travel-pass.html

 

...that allow for unlimited rail travel plus buses, boats and museums for $281 (actually in Swiss Francs--but the exchange rate is currently about 1:1 with the US $) pp for 4 days or $232 pp for 3 days.  I'm wondering if that might not be the best way to get around Switzerland...Then I'd guess we'd need a single trip fare from Interlaken to La Spezia...Anyone have an opinion of the rail pass versus just buying trains on a fare by fare basis?

 

 

I am interested by your experiences with  car hire between countries.  I will get a quote rather than dismissing it next time I need that sort of travel.  

 

The Swiss Rail passes can be a bargain.  They are also so convenient.  You do have to do your sums and work out what is best for your trip.  Do know that the Swiss trains are very well organised and reliable.  You also get those boat and mountain train tickets at a reduced fare.  

 

I don't think that a single night in Lucerne is enough.  Lucerne is so pretty - and you need to visit Mount Rigi and the lake.  

 

I’ve added  a picture from Lugano.  It was gorgeous.  Such a difference to the German and French areas of Switzerland.  I have been to Cinque Terre and Lugano which I believe is similar to the Lakes of Italy.  I loved both.  Whichever choice you make will give you a great trip.  

[LouieT]

On 5/1/2019 at 9:25 PM, euro cruiser said:

Rather than La Spezia, which is perfectly nice but kind of vanilla, consider staying in Portovenere.  You can get the ferries to Cinque Terre from there and it's a beautiful little waterfront town, with enough restaurants and a range of hotels to choose from.  There's also a large municipal parking garage where you can safely leave the car.

Do you know what town the ferry is? This sounds like a great idea. We had planned to go to Cinque Terre too but based on others feedback about crowds, I like your idea better. Any hotel and restaurant suggestions in Portovenere or nearby?

Edited May 17, 2019 by LouieT
Adding another question

[LouieT]

Sorry a couple more questions...how long is the ferry ride? Going to have my friend's grand daughter with us who is 5 years old. Can you experience Cinque Terre in one day OR need more than one day. 

[euro cruiser]

The length of the ferry ride depends on where you're going.

 

From Portovenere to the first stop in Cinque Terre, Riomaggiore, takes 35 minutes.

 

You can see the summer schedule here:  https://www.navigazionegolfodeipoeti.it/en/lerici-timetable-valid-from-04202019-to-09292019/

[Bruin Steve]

We're now within11 months, so I am able to flesh out the trip a little more...

 

As of right now, using Celebrity Air, I have "cancellable" flights...We will arrive in Zurich at 3:15 pm on June 26...and fly home after the second cruise on July 21 from FCO.  I have reserved my favorite hotel in Rome for the two nights post cruise, so that is taken care of.

 

For the pre-cruise, I have booked the #1 rated B&B in Civitavecchia (per TripAdvisor) for July 4...Which leaves me June 26-July 4 to plan out.

 

My original instinct was to rent a car in Zurich and return it in Civitavecchia.  We've done one-way rentals many times in Europe before, but today's pricing was a culture shock--Every source we looked at (Kemwel, Hertz, Kayak, Expedia) is showing incredible one-way dropoff charges...bringing the price of any automatic transmission vehicle to close to $2,000 or more for the mere 8 days!!!  Add in the cost of gas and it's downright crazy.

 

My second instinct was to replace a lot of the driving with trains.  A five day Eurail Pass would cost us $574 for two of us...and we could use that to travel around Switzerland for 4 days, then down to La Spezia/Porto Venere...Then, rent a car in La Spezia for one day--June 3-4--which would cost $112 (much smaller drop-off charge, but we'd have to drop it at FCO and take a train back to Civitavecchia).  Plus, the train ride from Anywhere in Switzerland to La Spezia would be several hours and involve at least two changes...and my wife dreads schlepping heavy luggage on and off trains...

 

So, the current thinking looks like this:

 

Rent a car in Zurich for one week ($327 for an Alfa Romeo Giuletta or similar...no drop-off since we'd return it to Zurich Airport)...Pick up on June 26, return July 3...Book a flight from Zurich to FCO on Alitalia on either July 3 or 4--11:00 am flight, arrives FCO 12:30 pm (cost for two on a rate that allows a 50 lb. checked bag each--$437 or $397).  If we flew out on the 3rd, we'd either extend our stay in Civitavecchia an extra night--or just stay near FCO.  If we fly out on the 4th, we'd probably still turn n the car on the 3rd, late afternoon and just stay near the Zurich Airport in order to get to the airport early morning for the 11:00 am flight...

 

So, the big question that would remain IF we go that route, is how to plot out an itinerary for June 26-July 3...My wife loves Lucerne--We were there on our honeymoon, albeit many years ago--and wants to stay there at least the first night.  She would also love to visit the Cinque Terre--if that still works in some sort of a 7 day loop from Zurich...The rest of the time, we'd like to spend in Switzerland.  With a car, we figure we have some flexibility--though having to backtrack to Zurich takes away a little of that edge.

 

So, the question is:  If you had those 7 days to work with, what route would you take and where would you stay each night?

 

Thanks...

[euro cruiser]

Check rental pricing with the consolidators, autoeurope.com and kemwel.com, they often have better packages of rental and insurance than going directly to the supplier.  It's counterintuitive but I've often found it to be true in Europe.

 

Also, before buying a rail pass price out the individual segments.  I'm not sure about other parts of Europe but I know that passes almost never pay out in Italy.

 

Since Switzerland is not part of the European Union, I wonder if that has an impact on drop off fees for cars in EU countries.

Edited August 15, 2019 by euro cruiser

[Bruin Steve]

Kemwel and autoeurope were actually higher...

But it looks like another alternative might be to fly into Milan instead...rental cars from there to Rome FCO have a much lower one-way charge...so a VW Golf with auto would be around $618 for 8 days--26th through the 4th...We'd have to drop it off at FCO and take the train back to Civitavecchia on the 4th...  but, that may allow a little more flexibility to loop up through Switzerland, then down past the Cinque Terre and to continue down the coast to FCO...

[Bruin Steve]

And...we've now done that...

I was able to switch the reservation from Zurich to Milan Malpensa (arriving 4:30 pm)...and saved almost $600...Airfare went down from $1277 to $983 per person...AND, I was able to rent a car directly from Hertz--a Fiat 500 automatic--for $451 total for the full time--June 26 to July 4...with, importantly, the ability to drop it off right in Civitavecchia...believe it or not, a much better deal than I could find with any of the consolidators...

 

So, now we are able to proceed with planning a route by car, leaving the airport in Milan late afternoon on Friday the 26th and ending in Civitavecchia on Saturday, July 4...Looking at the map, it's about an hour drive to Lugano, 2:45 to Lucerne.  Of course, we're getting in late in the day after a long plane ride...So, perhaps, Friday night we stay close...Stay in Milan?  Or make the short hop to Lugano? ...and continue to Lucerne for Saturday night...and Interlaken Sunday?  Use that as a base?  Or keep moving around?  Still looking for help on the itinerary...