Canadians who can’t afford Out of Country insurance

[gadaboutgal]

Another way around the out of country insurance issue:  book the cruise from the US port, but join up with the cruise at the first Canadian port.

People miss the sailing of ships all the time; they are then responsible for catching up with the ship -but are not penalized for missing the initial port. 

 

[chengkp75]

4 hours ago, gadaboutgal said:

Another way around the out of country insurance issue:  book the cruise from the US port, but join up with the cruise at the first Canadian port.

People miss the sailing of ships all the time; they are then responsible for catching up with the ship -but are not penalized for missing the initial port. 

 

This would result in the very same problem with Canada's CTA, if you boarded at the first Canadian port and disembarked at the end in Canada.  What you say is correct, that many people can join at a later port, but for instance, if the cruise is out of Miami, and the next port is Key West, if you miss embarkation in Miami, you cannot board in Key West, you would have to wait until the first foreign port, unless the reason for missing embarkation was the cruise line's fault (booked air with them), then they should cover the fine and let you board in Key West.

 

So, saying that they are not penalized for missing the initial port is not always correct.

[FrugalSunseeker]

Last cruise we were on, round trip from the states a couple came on the elevator with their suitcases and said they were disembarking to the port . It was a Caribbean Island (I can't remember which one) and I assumed they had family on the island . I thought it was a clever idea. Book a cheap cruise and save the price of a flight and enjoy a cruise to the island . If I knew what cabotage was I would have queried them on how much it cost them to do it . Maybe they just emptied their cabin and left . I don't know . 

 

The thing that should have raised red flags with me is...I wondered why MORE people don't do it.  Thanks to chengkp75 now I know . 

 

there is a reason.

[chengkp75]

No, because if they board in the US, but disembark in an island, that voyage is not pertinent to the PVSA, but it does require permission in advance from the cruise line, since it changes the passenger manifest for the remainder of the voyage, and that can lead to extra expense for the cruise line with CBP handling the disembarkation.

[gadaboutgal]

Thank you, chengkp75, for your clear explanations.  I never knew the details of the laws--so complicated!   

 

[FrugalSunseeker]

if there is a silver lining to my financial faux pas it is the chances of us going on this cruise is much higher than if I realized the blunder. It is non-refundable. And I know from seeing other passengers that many are much frailer than my parents. And they go. The (presumably) get health insurance.

 

Had I known about cabotage laws before I would not have booked, and missed out on a potential lovely family vacation . I am less discouraged now. At worst we don't go. At best . ....we do!

 

 

 

[mexico8]

I hope it all works out for you and your parents to go on the cruise.   It does sound promising because of the credit card coverage?   Keep checking - you are sure to discover the possibilities.    Nice to hear of a daughter wanting to please her elderly parents (I am one of the latter).

[FrugalSunseeker]

For those following the thread. This was the response to the request to disembark early in Halifaxfrom the cruise leaving from Montreal. 

 

We are contacting you regarding your reservations on the Holland America Zaandam. We have contacted the cruise line regarding your inquiries and were advised of the following:

 

Regarding disembarking in Halifax rather than Boston, we were advised that this would not be possible as it would be in violation of the Jones Act, which requires you to reach a U.S. port before disembarking. 

 

[FrugalSunseeker]

My next question is why does the Jones act  (American law) apply to a cruise that originated from Montreal Canada with the final Canadian port being Halifax before the last two stops in America. The 

[Mary229]

Have you tried searching for Canadian travel insurance.  I notice Allianz offers it and I have always found their rates affordable and their service reliable

Edited May 24, 2019 by Mary229

[GeezerCouple]

4 minutes ago, FrugalSunseeker said:

My next question is why does the Jones act  (American law) apply to a cruise that originated from Montreal Canada with the final Canadian port being Halifax before the last two stops in America. The 

 

They may have given the right answer (not sure) but definitely for the *wrong* reason.

 

We had something like this happen when we wanted a different cruise line to allow us an overnight off the ship, and the Jones Act did NOT apply, but they cited it anyway.

And we've heard of others who wanted, for example, to get off in Asia at one port, and catch up again a few days later.  "Jones Act" was the reason to, initially in that case, disallow it, even though there isn't even a remote connection.  (There may have been other laws/regulations, but I doubt it, because in one of those cases, the people WERE allowed to leave the ship and then return to the ship again a few days later in a different port.)

 

IF there are laws (Canadian or US) that disallow this, then it doesn't really matter if they gave you the wrong reason, unfortunately.  IF it would be allowed, then it might well be worth going further up the food chain, so to speak.

 

GC

[FrugalSunseeker]

Thanks GeezerrCouple. I respect and acknowledge Marine law.  However I believe it is incumbent on the cruise line to give accurate information. I have contacted my member of parliament in Canada for confirmation if  the Jones act applies, and what Canadian  Maritime law applies. 

[GeezerCouple]

1 hour ago, FrugalSunseeker said:

Thanks GeezerrCouple. I respect and acknowledge Marine law.  However I believe it is incumbent on the cruise line to give accurate information. I have contacted my member of parliament in Canada for confirmation if  the Jones act applies, and what Canadian  Maritime law applies. 

 

My understanding is that the PVSA (and the Jones Act) are USA laws.  Note that the Jones Act applied to cargo; the PVSA applied to passengers.  The term "Jones Act" is often used incorrectly to refer to passenger rules.  Same underlying principles as far as I understand it.

 

The cruise lines are not always accurate, even about relatively simple things!

I doubt that if you get confirmation from Parliament about what the appropriate Canadian law/regulation is, that the cruise line folks will care, or start answering similar questions "properly", unfortunately.

 

Also, keep in mind that especially from the cruise line's perspective, it's more important to give out - and enforce - the correct policy than to get the "name" of any law/regulation/etc., right.

 

GC

 

 

[d9704011]

I believe the situation is covered by Canada’s Coasting Trade Act.

[Essiesmom]

4 hours ago, FrugalSunseeker said:

Thanks GeezerrCouple. I respect and acknowledge Marine law.  However I believe it is incumbent on the cruise line to give accurate information. I have contacted my member of parliament in Canada for confirmation if  the Jones act applies, and what Canadian  Maritime law applies. 

But you already know what law applies.  It was explained by chengkp75 in post #8 of this thread, and acknowledged by you in a subsequent post #28.   EM

Edited May 25, 2019 by Essiesmom

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, FrugalSunseeker said:

Thanks GeezerrCouple. I respect and acknowledge Marine law.  However I believe it is incumbent on the cruise line to give accurate information. I have contacted my member of parliament in Canada for confirmation if  the Jones act applies, and what Canadian  Maritime law applies. 

 

4 hours ago, d9704011 said:

I believe the situation is covered by Canada’s Coasting Trade Act.

As I stated before, neither the Jones Act nor the PVSA apply to your situation, but the Coasting Trade Act does.  The statement you received was a "blanket" or "canned" response from a customer service representative, where the vast majority of these requests are affected by the PVSA (note that they can't even get the correct US law that applies, as most cruise line customer service personnel refer to the PVSA as the Jones Act).  As for the cruise line being responsible for giving accurate information, I consider advice given by a telephone or email CSR to be about as reliable as home improvement advice given by someone at Home Depot.

 

By all means feel free to contact your MP, but you will receive the same answer, it is not allowed, but you may get a more detailed and correct reason for the denial.  I say, may, because I don't hold most politicians' knowledge of the law much above the clerk in Home Depot's knowledge of plumbing codes.  I would contact CBSA (Canadian Border Services Agency) for the most comprehensive answer to your question, but you must be specific and detailed in describing your situation (name and flag of ship, ports from embarkation to disembarkation, etc).

 

And, while the actual law involved was misquoted, the answer to why your request was denied was included in the response you received "which requires you to reach a U.S. port before disembarking."  Which is the definition of Canada's Coasting Trade Act.

Edited May 25, 2019 by chengkp75

[FrugalSunseeker]

11 hours ago, Essiesmom said:

But you already know what law applies.  It was explained by chengkp75 in post #8 of this thread, and acknowledged by you in a subsequent post #28.   EM

 

 

I received information from the cruise line that the Jones Act applies. Thanks to the insightful posts by chengkp I now believe that this information was incorrect.  Chastising me for wanting to have a better understanding of Maritime law is not helpful.

[FrugalSunseeker]

For those of you following the home game.  We've booked flights from Boston and we will be doing the complete cruise. I want to thank so much for the helpful replies especially from chengkp75. 

 

When someone asks a question on this forum it is not only beneficial for the original poster, but for others that are looking for the same information on the internet.

 

As for the person who chimed in to chastise me for asking asking for clarification re my queries (who has posted over 25,000 posts) ,- people like you are the reason others are reluctant to post questions.

 

Thanks again for all the helpful comments and advice.

 

Fingers crossed that all goes well!

 

 

 

[Mary229]

Maybe I missed something, what are you going to do about the insurance?

[FrugalSunseeker]

Legally a Canadian does not need health insurance to visit the United States.  However that would be foolish in my opinion. We are looking for options. My uncle said his friend was denied health insurance but went on his planned trip anyway. Luckily he did not get sick and returned back to Canada with no problem. This would not be a risk I would take.

[Mary229]

5 minutes ago, FrugalSunseeker said:

Legally a Canadian does not need health insurance to visit the United States.  However that would be foolish in my opinion. We are looking for options. My uncle said his friend was denied health insurance but went on his planned trip anyway. Luckily he did not get sick and returned back to Canada with no problem. This would not be a risk I would take.

I think as close to home as you are going to be any emergency could be handled easily. 

[FrugalSunseeker]

The cruise line will not cover the insurance. And yes, it is only two ports in America. I want to thank the person who suggested the credit card insurance available and my father will be covered. We will get appropriate insurance for his wife, or we wont go.

[Benthayer Gonbak]

You know that the doctors aboard ship are expensive too, right?  We took my 91 yo MIL to Alaska and used the ships insurance because it was cheaper and we would still be taking her to the US where her local insurance would cover an emergency only.  We risked the larger evacuation coverage that the insurance we normally do has, but figured it wasn’t insurmountable to get her to the other coast as needed. 

 

We returned almost unscathed.  She tripped on a ledge in the buss on a ship sponsored tour in Juneau and went head first into the windshield.  Her daughter was with her and they assured her they would take care of her and get her back to the ship, and did.  The tour was whale watching and the captain didn’t want to risk her going.  She was returned to the ship, checked by the doctors without any charge to her.  We assume that the cruise line did not bill the insurance and we certainly did not.  Had she simply had a stroke aboard ship the insurance we had would have covered her care on the ship.

[MandD]

On 5/2/2019 at 9:51 AM, FrugalSunseeker said:

Hello Folks. I am an avid cruiser and know my elderly father and his wife would love the experience, but they are in their late 80s with significant pre-existing health issues such that travel insurance outside Canada is not attainable. 

Try contacting www.TripInsuranceStore.com  or toll-free (US & Canada) 1-888-407-3854  steve@tripinsurancestore.com www.TripInsuranceStore.com