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So called “Service Dogs” on board ships


kura
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1 minute ago, knittinggirl said:

 Always wondered how safe it was for animals to fly in the cargo hold of a plane.  I wondered if they could get by w/ less oxygen than humans.

 

Animals are flown in cargo holds. Every so often there's a news story about an animal escaping at the airport when the latch on the crate isn't secure. I think there was a cat that hid in the hold for several flights before it finally was found. 

 

This is another reason pet owners lie about the status of their pets. They don't want the pet to go in the hold. I get that; I couldn't do it with my pet. But I wouldn't lie about it.  I'd drive across country if I were relocating with a pet rather than put it in the hold.

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I am not going to copy all the comments I am responding to and I don't mind if someone tells me something I misstated.  I am going from my experience as a service dog handler/user and having experience with a past friend who had an emotional support dog.

 

My service dog is on duty 24/7.  I know to some this may sound cruel, but he certainly gets downtown and isn't "actively" working all that time.  I have mobility issues and also get blackouts - don't know why yet.  At home, he will recover things I can't reach or alerts me before a blackout to sit.  I actually don't have the black outs but 2-3 times a month, so that doesn't happen much and I also have a grabber/reacher, so I don't call on him much at home; but he is available to me if needed.  A service dog is not required, per ADA, to wear identification, however, out in public I do have him in his vest - this just  makes him more noticeable and less questions.

 

Not only is the running up and grabbing the rear dangerous to the blind but because of my mobility issues, I was almost pulled over when some kids did this to Halo; this after I told them he was working and to not distract him.  I sure wish their parents were there, I would have said something to them.  Halo has not had any other negative experiences and is a very calm dog.  But anything that sounds like feet coming up on him, a blowing leaf, will startle him.

 

My friend had an ESA and would let that dog walk on the couches and tables in a coffee shop we went to.  She would put up a big fight about being let into a restaurant with her ESA and then feed it from the table.  I finally had enough and told her she made those of us that had a "real" service dog look bad.  If you see above the word "past" friend, this is part of the reason; she didn't like being called out.  She was a veteran and had PTSD.  I did suggest that she look into getting a trained service dog, in that it was hard for her to function in public without her dog.  I am happy to say she did take that suggestion and now has a fully trained service dog.  Being that we don't hang out anymore, I do only hope that she is following guidelines such as "4 on the floor" and not feeding her SD out in public.  

 

I did not get my dog from a group that trains the dogs, I don't consider him self trained - maybe he is, I did and continue to use a service dog trainer.  I know I am more than happy to do some of the testing, such as Canine Good Citizen and Public Access, to gain the certificates and prove he is trained to be out in public.  I do wish they would require this as a minimum and allow for this evidence to be presented if asked.  My fear when out with him is these, so called, service dogs will attack him.  Halo can totally walk by an out of control dog and barely give it a glance and any trained service dog will act the same way.  The real SD's usually give their handler a look of what is wrong with them.  I have had him on a plane curled into his ball in his spot (he is 90 pounds and some people don't even see him because he is so quiet) and an ESA or "service dog" will be walking by and come into his space and want to play with him.  I now put his back pack in front of him with my legs in front of the backpack until the plane is loaded.

 

Linda and Halo

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A lot of people don't know how to train a dog, whether it's a pet or emotional support dog. Our neighbors have a new puppy and they have hired a trainer to come to the house and work with them. Just basic pet obedience, not support or service. I watched them in the back yard the other day. The trainer was training THEM as much as the puppy. 

 

Too many people don't know how to manage a dog in public. I was thinking about this thread just this morning when I was at our local farm market. Bringing your dog to the farm market is the "thing to do." Most people are good about using a short leash, but there's always a few idiots with a large dog on an extender leash, and those are always the dogs that want to jump on people or lunge at other dogs. 

 

What's the saying? There are no bad dogs, only bad owners?

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5 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

A lot of people don't know how to train a dog, whether it's a pet or emotional support dog. Our neighbors have a new puppy and they have hired a trainer to come to the house and work with them. Just basic pet obedience, not support or service. I watched them in the back yard the other day. The trainer was training THEM as much as the puppy. 

 

Too many people don't know how to manage a dog in public. I was thinking about this thread just this morning when I was at our local farm market. Bringing your dog to the farm market is the "thing to do." Most people are good about using a short leash, but there's always a few idiots with a large dog on an extender leash, and those are always the dogs that want to jump on people or lunge at other dogs. 

 

What's the saying? There are no bad dogs, only bad owners?

Actually most animal training is about training the handler, I know I had to turn to a friend for advice on some issues of training Max and I have years of experience, i breeding, training, showing and urging dogs, just there was one thing I isnt know how to get him to do the first time.

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For pets in the cabin (legitimate pets in carriers and their passage is paid for) the weight limit is 20 lbs including the carrier.  The carrier must meet the under seat size specifications for the aircraft you are flying on.   The check-in counters usually do not weigh the pet and carrier, they just look to see if the carrier is within the size limits and if the dog (or cat) is not crammed in there with no ability to turn around and stretch out.   If your pet is over 20 lbs, then it must fly in the cargo hold in a hard-sided pet carrier.   The flight crew is notified that live animals are in the cargo hold, so they make sure the temperature is warm enough.   The cargo holds are always pressurized to the same level as the passenger cabin.   There is only a porous metal floor with carpeting dividing the passenger cabin and the cargo hold.  So the whole interior of the plane is pressurized equally.  There is no difference in oxygen levels between the 2 areas.  But there is a temperature difference, and when they are notified, the flight crew keeps the cargo hold warm enough for pets.

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One of my friends, her Marine Corps husband and the kiddos were TDY'd to Japan a couple of months ago.  They took their dog with them.  She flew in the hold - she is a small golden retriever size.  They transferred planes at LAX - they were allowed to take her and and walk her and have her relieve herself.  The entire family made it through the flights and are now happy in Japan.  The dog is the neighborhood mascot!!

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  • 1 year later...

I am a Disabled Vietnam Veteran with a Service Dog...a true service dog trained and certified and I am a trained and certified handler.  I take my dog everywhere but have not gone on a cruise with him yet.  People that take their imitation "Service Dog" make it extremely difficult for those that need a Service Dog for mobility and other issues.

 

It is my understanding that the ADA defined what is a service dog and what is not.  Please do not ruin it for those of use that are truly in need of these unique and wonderful service dogs.

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On 5/13/2019 at 4:57 PM, kura said:

“Service Dogs” on board ships....should they be allowed?

I don’t often make comments on here, but I have been following John and Dianne’s Lucky Number 7 thread from the Amsterdam World Cruise with discussions about so called “Service Dogs” that are currently on board the World Cruise and decided to start a separate thread to see if other people also have an objection to these animals on board.

Obviously they are approved by someone in an office who has no idea that they are not properly trained.

 

I do love dogs.....love our two “Granddogs” ....but not on ships! I have no objection to a properly trained Service Dog that is on a harness, but have no time for these people who seem to be able to bring on their pets by calling them Comfort Dogs. 

 

The following is a quote from John and Dianne’s latest thread....

  • This morning in the gym, there wasn’t just exercising going on.  A group of people, including the wife of one of the ship’s top officers, had an angry discussion going on about the dogs on board.  I think I may have mentioned them before.  A couple boarded the ship somewhere in Europe and, with HAL’s permission, brought aboard two “comfort dogs.”  Apparently the husband had had heart surgery recently and felt he needed the comfort of his two dogs.  Unfortunately, these are NOT service dogs, which I realized when one “escaped” their cabin one morning and ran helter-skelter down the hallway.  Apparently the situation has become worse rather than better.  During one show in the Queen’s Lounge, one of the dogs began to bark and then to howl, continuing until removed from the room.  Also, one pooped in the elevator and another peed on the carpet somewhere on the ship.  In addition, the couple brought their dogs to The Pinnacle for dinner and a conflict broke out with other diners which required that security be called.  We don't know the outcome of that situation.  Of course the person who approved this doesn’t have to deal with the consequences, but both passengers and especially crew do, and officers and crew at the very highest levels are really fed up with the whole thing.  I realize that some people really do need their (well-trained) service dogs wherever they go, but noisy, badly-trained ankle biter dogs are certainly not a good idea.  I know that it’s possible to find “service dog” certificates online, but I think the situation should require a letter from a vet certifying that the dog is actually a trained service dog as well as a letter from a physician explaining why the person needs such a dog.  That would not violate the ADA, but it would keep situations like this from arising.  Enough said.

 

I have experienced first hand one of these dogs last year on the Prinsendam in Europe and Holy Land and decided to now share some of the stories from that cruise.

A lady from New York had a “Service dog “. ...an Australian Sheepdog that is not bred to be a Service dog, but to round up and chase sheep!! This dog was totally out of control. It was apparently to protect her Personal Space! .....but invaded the space of many other passengers and crew!

 

The first we were aware of it, my husband said there was a strange noise that sounded like a dog barking when he was on the balcony.

This dog was seen by us and other passengers and crew.....

......bounding up the stairs on the ship on a very long lead

......off the lead in the Crows Nest, licking the tables and eating any dropped nuts off the floor and tables

......Off the lead on the back pool deck looking to be patted and jumping up on people

......pooping on the deck....instead of in his tray

.......according to the Dining Room Manager it jumped up on waiters, and the lady was ordering the best steak off the menu and feeding it under the table....the Dining Manager said he objected to the dog being given the HAL dining china to eat off and he found it a plastic dish. There were many confrontations apparently in the dining room and the lady was moved from several tables when people objected!

.......On an excursion the dog was in the front seat, with paws up on the partition over the driver and drooling on to the driver.

...... other passengers were asked by the lady if they would hold the lead while she went into some of the churches etc in Israel where dogs were not allowed.

......the lady was seen ashore on a few occasions without the dog in ports where it was not allowed (she was travelling with a friend so assumed the friend looked after it)

...the worst for me was while on an excursion, whilst climbing some stairs, this lady and her “Service Dog” raced passed me ......the dog went one side of me and the lady the other the dogs lead caugh my legs and I fell heavily on a landing on the stairs.

This dog was NOT a service dog and should never have been allowed! I made this quite clear in our cruise evaluation also.

 

Apart from the above, it is not fair to the dog to be confined like this

I hope I never encounter these so called Service Dogs on a ship again.

It is my understanding that you have to provide the cruise lines with the appropriate papers certifying the dogs are true service dogs.  They also have to have all of the appropriate vaccinations. So I don't think anyone can just bring their dog along!

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3 hours ago, silversneakers said:

It is my understanding that you have to provide the cruise lines with the appropriate papers certifying the dogs are true service dogs.  They also have to have all of the appropriate vaccinations. So I don't think anyone can just bring their dog along!

There is no governmentally recognized "certification" for service dogs, and it is illegal to ask for such. And the abuse of this is widespread on cruises 

Edited by chengkp75
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1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

There is no governmentally recognized "certification" for service dogs, and it is illegal to ask for such. And the abuse of this is widespread on cruises 

I thought the law had changed recently and that it was perfectly fine to ask...

 

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2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

There is no governmentally recognized "certification" for service dogs, and it is illegal to ask for such. And the abuse of this is widespread on cruises 

We have seen this abused as well including someone bring two dogs to Pinnacle that ended up biting another guest.

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22 minutes ago, grest said:

I thought the law had changed recently and that it was perfectly fine to ask...

 

I believe a person with a "service dog" may be asked "does the dog perform a service for you?"  and "what service?"  Beyond that, I don't think they can be required to produce any certification/authorization to confirm the dog's status.

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6 hours ago, silversneakers said:

It is my understanding that you have to provide the cruise lines with the appropriate papers certifying the dogs are true service dogs.  They also have to have all of the appropriate vaccinations. So I don't think anyone can just bring their dog along!

I wonder if the service/comfort dogs will need a covid vaccine to board the ships?😆

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26 minutes ago, Shmoo here said:

I believe a person with a "service dog" may be asked "does the dog perform a service for you?"  and "what service?"  Beyond that, I don't think they can be required to produce any certification/authorization to confirm the dog's status.

 

I volunteered at our hospital for 13+ years. We were never allowed to ask a person if their dog was a service dog. As a matter of fact, my sweet husband had surgery. He told the nurse he missed our dog (who was well behaved but not a service dog) she got us permission for our dog to visit my husbands room! This was 2015.

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1 hour ago, Seasick Sailor said:

 

I volunteered at our hospital for 13+ years. We were never allowed to ask a person if their dog was a service dog. As a matter of fact, my sweet husband had surgery. He told the nurse he missed our dog (who was well behaved but not a service dog) she got us permission for our dog to visit my husbands room! This was 2015.

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

 

From that link:

 

Staff may ask two questions: (1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.

 

 

Also:

Where Service Animals Are Allowed

Under the ADA, State and local governments, businesses, and nonprofit organizations that serve the public generally must allow service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas of the facility where the public is allowed to go. For example, in a hospital it usually would be inappropriate to exclude a service animal from areas such as patient rooms, clinics, cafeterias, or examination rooms. However, it may be appropriate to exclude a service animal from operating rooms or burn units where the animal’s presence may compromise a sterile environment.

 

Now, as to whether some people/facilities "look the other way" - I'm sure it happens, but that's what the ADA laws say about it.

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  • 1 year later...

I know that this is an old conversation but I have a crushed leg and need a service (assistance dog in Europe) to ensure that I don't fall and break the graft holding my leg together. He is well trained, went to school and is my second service dog. Be aware the is no certification standard in the US nor is "certification" required. Before COVID we were on a cruise with a gentleman with a large dog he said was a service dog. I was unconvinced to say the least. He had the dog playing in public places and encouraged the passengers to play with the dog. He said he had to have the dog off leash and playing several hours a day!!!! I was so angry I had to excuse myself and leave the room.

NONE of that meets the standard for the Public Access test or the ADA regulations. People like that make life difficult for those of us who need these dogs. Dogs are still dogs and sometimes bark, dash out a door and do things we wish that they wouldn't. HOWEVER a working Service Dog is a wonder to behold.

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10 minutes ago, STI said:

I know that this is an old conversation but I have a crushed leg and need a service (assistance dog in Europe) to ensure that I don't fall and break the graft holding my leg together. He is well trained, went to school and is my second service dog. Be aware the is no certification standard in the US nor is "certification" required. Before COVID we were on a cruise with a gentleman with a large dog he said was a service dog. I was unconvinced to say the least. He had the dog playing in public places and encouraged the passengers to play with the dog. He said he had to have the dog off leash and playing several hours a day!!!! I was so angry I had to excuse myself and leave the room.

NONE of that meets the standard for the Public Access test or the ADA regulations. People like that make life difficult for those of us who need these dogs. Dogs are still dogs and sometimes bark, dash out a door and do things we wish that they wouldn't. HOWEVER a working Service Dog is a wonder to behold.

I agree! TRUE service dogs such as yours, are well trained. Playing while working is not acceptable. 
 

I saw 2 tiny so called  service dogs on the 2019 WC. They peed everywhere, barked at people, and bit someone while in the Pinnacle Grill. Definitely not the expected behavior of a trained service dog!

 

A service dog is on alert and watching their owner. 

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I have seen well trained service dogs while on a few different cruises, they were not a problem.  I would however have a major problem with any animal running, barking or peeing in a public space.  I would think the cruise line would object.  Or at least make sure the dog was truly a service animal.

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18 minutes ago, Banditswife said:

I have seen well trained service dogs while on a few different cruises, they were not a problem.  I would however have a major problem with any animal running, barking or peeing in a public space.  I would think the cruise line would object.  Or at least make sure the dog was truly a service animal.

Since this thread began the airlines have clamped down hard on what is a service animal. Of course pets are allowed but under different rules.

 

 I have only seen one non-service service animal on HAL and fortunately it was well behaved and the owner quite pleasant and in total control 

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3 hours ago, sandiego1 said:

I agree! TRUE service dogs such as yours, are well trained. Playing while working is not acceptable. 
 

I saw 2 tiny so called  service dogs on the 2019 WC. They peed everywhere, barked at people, and bit someone while in the Pinnacle Grill. Definitely not the expected behavior of a trained service dog!

 

A service dog is on alert and watching their owner. 

2 “service” dogs for same owner? By your inflection here I understand their true status was quite questionable. 
 

Which brings up a Legitimate question here: Why would one person need 2 service dogs?

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53 minutes ago, TiogaCruiser said:

2 “service” dogs for same owner? By your inflection here I understand their true status was quite questionable. 
 

Which brings up a Legitimate question here: Why would one person need 2 service dogs?

Supposedly one of the tiny dogs was for him and one for his wife. Henk, the Hotel Director, did tell us and other passengers that the couple completed all of the “necessary paperwork “ to confirm they were service dogs. Based on the way he said it, I surmised that he didn’t believe it either.

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2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Since this thread began the airlines have clamped down hard on what is a service animal. Of course pets are allowed but under different rules.

 

 I have only seen one non-service service animal on HAL and fortunately it was well behaved and the owner quite pleasant and in total control 

@Mary229 may I ask, when and where did you see a non-service animal on a HAL ship - was it crew family? I understand HAL (all of CCL) has very tight policy on animals.

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