What’s included on other lines that’s an extra charge on NCL?

[calliopecruiser]

On 5/21/2019 at 9:59 AM, Joebucks said:

"nickle and dime" horror stories

Nickle and diming is about facts, not emotional responses.......it's a simple acknowledgement of small-amount items or services that are typically included in the price from other companies, but in the case of this company/situation are charged extra for, usually in exchange for a lower sticker price.  Whether or not someone is bothered by "nickle and diming" is the emotional question, but not the one that was asked.  I hate it --- I want to know the price up front and not be surprised by a bunch of little extra charges, even if they don't add up to a lot of money.  Other people don't mind, and are content to assess each little extra charge separately.    The facts are the same, but the emotional response is different.  

 

[SantaFeFan]

2 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

Nickle and diming is about facts, not emotional responses.......it's a simple acknowledgement of small-amount items or services that are typically included in the price from other companies, but in the case of this company/situation are charged extra for, usually in exchange for a lower sticker price.  Whether or not someone is bothered by "nickle and diming" is the emotional question, but not the one that was asked.  I hate it --- I want to know the price up front and not be surprised by a bunch of little extra charges, even if they don't add up to a lot of money.  Other people don't mind, and are content to assess each little extra charge separately.    The facts are the same, but the emotional response is different.  

 

 

One way to look at this is to compare a cruise to a typical land vacation. Rare is a land vacation "all inclusive", and in most cases requires payment for "little extra charges" such as meals at restaurants, admission prices to museums or tourist sites, transportation, souvenirs, entertainment, etc. Like many, I prefer most of the items on a cruise to be included in the base fare or paid for in advance. But when on a land vacation, I have no problem with paying for extra fee items since that is how such vacations work.

 

I find it interesting that people in general tend to consider a cruise experience differently than a land vacation. Not criticizing anyone, just commenting on my own level of tolerance differences for extra fees for the two different types of vacations and how it seems to match what many people feel. 

[GenghisQuan]

So, wife and I took our honey moon on the NCL Pride of America, and the main thing we notice is that at least where dining is concerned, the "Freestyle Dining" is anything but, and the variety of restaurants (with very little space in each of them) seem more designed to push passengers towards paying extra for the specialty restaurants. Dining venue times were stacked awkwardly, and the buffet is also limited in variety.

 

Oh, also the whole "no bringing water on board, and no you're not allowed to fill water bottles from the buffet or the gym" nonsense, which you know is nonsense because no one enforced it ever.

 

The spa massages was also extremely unsatisfying. We got a sampler, and it was not so much a massage as a series of gentle caresses, like they didn't want to give you anything so you'll spend money on something that's actually on the menu.

 

Full review here https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=582398

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, SantaFeFan said:

 

One way to look at this is to compare a cruise to a typical land vacation. Rare is a land vacation "all inclusive", 

...

 

I find it interesting that people in general tend to consider a cruise experience differently than a land vacation. Not criticizing anyone, just commenting on my own level of tolerance differences for extra fees for the two different types of vacations and how it seems to match what many people feel. 

This thread is about NCL — which blatantly advertises “free drinks”, “included gratuities”, etc.  And cruises generally ARE marketed as all inclusive - your fare covers room, transportation, entertainment, etc.

 

So, for purposes of this discussion, you should contrast - not compare - a cruise to a typical land vacation.

 

Then, the line, and NCL in particular goes about chiseling away at the included elements which made traditional cruising so very  different from land vacations.

[calliopecruiser]

2 hours ago, SantaFeFan said:

I find it interesting that people in general tend to consider a cruise experience differently than a land vacation.

 

That's because it is different. 

 

Not only is it structurally different (on a cruise, virtually everything comes from the same provider), it's marketed differently.  Advertisements for cruises promote all the inclusions, only putting the extra charges in the small print, often on a different page and in a different font -- yes, it is virtually a bait-and-switch -- and that's different from land vacations where vacationers know they are shopping for each piece from a variety of possible providers.   When doing price comparisons between my preferred inclusive cruise line and a mainline cruise line, I struggled to find prices for the things I would be paying extra for if I were to sail on a mainline voyage (specialty dining, alcoholic and non-alcoholic drinks, using the sauna, taking an exercise class).....they were very opaque because, I guess, they think that there will be no option for price shopping once on board. 

[Joebucks]

5 hours ago, calliopecruiser said:

Nickle and diming is about facts, not emotional responses.......it's a simple acknowledgement of small-amount items or services that are typically included in the price from other companies, but in the case of this company/situation are charged extra for, usually in exchange for a lower sticker price.  Whether or not someone is bothered by "nickle and diming" is the emotional question, but not the one that was asked.  I hate it --- I want to know the price up front and not be surprised by a bunch of little extra charges, even if they don't add up to a lot of money.  Other people don't mind, and are content to assess each little extra charge separately.    The facts are the same, but the emotional response is different.  

 

 

The problem is the statement of what "should be included" This is a mass-market cruise. Comparing it to luxury cruise lines is like comparing McDonald's and Ruth's Chris. In your fare, you get a room, food, and entertainment. You can do all of those things without "nickel and dimes". The best this thread has really come up with is that you can buy better food. To make the model more accessible, it is industry-standard that higher quality food options are available at an extra fee. You also leave out the things that are included now, but didn't used to be included.

[SantaFeFan]

4 minutes ago, calliopecruiser said:

 

That's because it is different. 

 

Not only is it structurally different (on a cruise, virtually everything comes from the same provider), it's marketed differently.  Advertisements for cruises promote all the inclusions, only putting the extra charges in the small print, often on a different page and in a different font -- yes, it is virtually a bait-and-switch -- and that's different from land vacations where vacationers know they are shopping for each piece from a variety of possible providers.   

 

Good point. Thanks for your thoughts. 

[NLH Arizona]

1 hour ago, GenghisQuan said:

Oh, also the whole "no bringing water on board, and no you're not allowed to fill water bottles from the buffet or the gym" nonsense, which you know is nonsense because no one enforced it ever.

 

You can fill them from the buffet and gym.  What you can't do is fill them directly from the faucet; you have to fill a glass and pour the water from the glass into your water bottle.  You are correct, they don't enforce those that fill their water bottles directly from the faucet and that drives me crazy.  After my last cruise, I suggested a wire addition to the faucets which would stop anyone putting the top of their bottles on the faucet, thus not allowing filling the bottle directly, but I seriously doubt they will do it.

[SantaFeFan]

11 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 

The problem is the statement of what "should be included" This is a mass-market cruise. Comparing it to luxury cruise lines is like comparing McDonald's and Ruth's Chris. In your fare, you get a room, food, and entertainment. You can do all of those things without "nickel and dimes". The best this thread has really come up with is that you can buy better food. To make the model more accessible, it is industry-standard that higher quality food options are available at an extra fee. You also leave out the things that are included now, but didn't used to be included.

 

Your comment is quite valid. The comparison in dining experiences is certainly a consideration when deciding how much to spend. Much like many hotels provide rudimentary continental breakfasts with room rates, I wouldn't consider it "nickle and diming" if I decide to dine in the hotel's extra fee restaurant instead and paid to have a better breakfast. Nor would I consider the option of choosing a better meal in a specialty restaurant on a cruise ship to be "nickle and diming". 

Edited May 22, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[sparks1093]

My memory was jogged about a charge for something on Royal that isn't charged for on CCL. Popcorn. Royal has a popcorn maker set up before the entrance of the theater and they sell popcorn before and during the show. $5 for a small bag of popcorn. We went to a movie theater a couple of weeks ago and the child's small was bigger than the bag offered by Royal and it was only $2.50. So certainly NCL isn't the only cruise line doing it's best to separate passengers from their hard earned dollar.

[mjkacmom]

17 hours ago, GenghisQuan said:

So, wife and I took our honey moon on the NCL Pride of America, and the main thing we notice is that at least where dining is concerned, the "Freestyle Dining" is anything but, and the variety of restaurants (with very little space in each of them) seem more designed to push passengers towards paying extra for the specialty restaurants. Dining venue times were stacked awkwardly, and the buffet is also limited in variety.

 

Oh, also the whole "no bringing water on board, and no you're not allowed to fill water bottles from the buffet or the gym" nonsense, which you know is nonsense because no one enforced it ever.

 

The spa massages was also extremely unsatisfying. We got a sampler, and it was not so much a massage as a series of gentle caresses, like they didn't want to give you anything so you'll spend money on something that's actually on the menu.

 

Full review here https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=582398

I would not base the whole cruise line on POA, we’ve sailed on 4 different NCL ships, the cabin size adequate, could always find food at all times, and never waited for a table for our family of 7. We never book excursions, too overpriced, on all lines. You can fill up your water bottle, just use a glass. The spa is independent of NCL, leased space.

Edited May 23, 2019 by mjkacmom

[GenghisQuan]

The excursions are overpriced, yes. Might potentially be worth it in developing countries, but completely unnecessary for Hawaii or Alaska.

 

Regarding the "nickel and diming" for food, it's just a matter of the food being noticeably lower quality compared to other mass market lines like Carnival, whether that's ingredients, variety of items at the buffet, how quickly places close, sophistication of cooking technique and presentation, as well as an observation that far too much space is devoted to different venues that are all too small to fit everyone who might want to eat there, and the theory that this is meant to push people to reserve spaces at for-fee restaurants.

 

Not so much charging you for standard things, as providing you substandard things so as to drive you to spend money on above-standard things.

 

To what extent is PoA not an accurate representation of NCL in general?

[mjkacmom]

It’s one of the oldest and smallest NCL ships, it’s smaller yet hold more passengers than the jewel class ships, it is the only NCL ship registered in the US . From what I’ve read, you sail this ship for the itinerary, not the ship. Other NCL ships are worth sailing just for the ship.

[Itchy&Scratchy]

On 5/20/2019 at 9:52 PM, lenquixote66 said:

I believe that NCL offers free ice cream while RCI only has soft serve.

Getaway had ice cream, but Jade didn't. However, Jade's soft serve was superb, whereas Getaway's soft serve was garbage.

[lenquixote66]

1 hour ago, Itchy&Scratchy said:

Getaway had ice cream, but Jade didn't. However, Jade's soft serve was superb, whereas Getaway's soft serve was garbage.

When I was a kid I lived around a corner from an ice cream factory.Every Friday at 5:00 they gave kids free ice cream. I loved ice cream and still do,but not soft serve.Every NCL ship I have been on had delicious ice cream.

[navybankerteacher]

On 5/22/2019 at 7:32 PM, SantaFeFan said:

 

... Nor would I consider the option of choosing a better meal in a specialty restaurant on a cruise ship to be "nickle and diming". 

Because the level of service and the quality of the food in the MDR is being continually down-graded while more and more specialty restaurants are being added, the entire food service operation should be seen as “nickle and diming” (or perhaps “Jacksoning and Granting”) for those who want reasonably good food reasonably well served.

[SantaFeFan]

52 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Because the level of service and the quality of the food in the MDR is being continually down-graded while more and more specialty restaurants are being added, the entire food service operation should be seen as “nickle and diming” (or perhaps “Jacksoning and Granting”) for those who want reasonably good food reasonably well served.

 

Considering that fares today are low compared to when cruise lines provided higher quality food in the MDR, I don't understand why you are complaining. You can't enjoy more affordable fares and then complain about a lower level of service and food quality as a result. That is unrealistic and a naive. If you want the same quality as "the good old days", then cruise on a luxury line and you won't have a reason to complain. They offer an experience more like what cruising used to be when only the rich could afford to cruise. 

 

Wait, on second thought, never mind. Then the high cost of the cruise is what will be complained about.  Sigh!

Edited May 24, 2019 by SantaFeFan

[brillohead]

On 5/21/2019 at 12:38 AM, Heidi13 said:

The base fare may be higher, but the total cost is probably almost comparable.

I beg to differ -- plenty of people are more than happy not to utilize all the things that are "included" in a fancy high-end expensive cruise line, so the total cost is nowhere near comparable.  

That's what always gets me about all the "nickel and diming" complaints... if you don't want something, don't get it! 

None of the "extras" are actually necessary things.  It's not like you get on board and they charge you for toilet paper for your stateroom, or a napkin at a meal.  You don't have to swipe your keycard to gain entrance to the public toilets (anyone else old enough to remember when places had pay toilets... if you didn't have a coin, you didn't get to pee!).  All of the extra items are voluntary things... nobody is forcing you to partake, and your cruise IS a complete vacation without the extras.  

Lodging and entertainment and food and plain beverages (water, coffee, milk, iced/hot tea) are always included.  The gratuity / Daily Service Charge is spelled out at the time of booking and can be included in the booking cost so it's also "included" and not added on later.  

If you prepay your gratuities, it's ENTIRELY possible to walk off the ship at the end of a week with ZERO bill due, while still having a very enjoyable vacation and gaining weight from all the free included food.  

I personally choose to get the soda package (I don't drink coffee, so diet Coke is my caffeine fix) and an internet package, both of which I purchase before boarding.  Probably 95% of the time, my only folio charges are the Daily Service Charge.  And I have a great time, and people back home are always envious of all the pictures I post on Facebook, and countless friends have asked me for advice on how to pick a cruise, what to look for, what cruise line would be best for their circumstances, etc.  Even a "no extras added" cruise is a dang good time!

[brillohead]

On 5/21/2019 at 9:04 AM, leaveitallbehind said:

Regarding ice cream, Celebrity offers a selection of real ice cream flavors in their buffet at no charge v the RCL chocolate and vanilla soft serve and B & J's flavors for a fee.

I'm pretty sure Royal also has hand-dipped ice cream in the buffet at dinner, in addition to the MDR at lunch and dinner.  I don't do the buffet for dinner, but I was in there one evening to grab some cookies for my son to have in our room, and I saw an employee dishing up ice cream over by the desserts (don't recall if there were two or three different flavors on offer -- it was a couple years ago).  

But Royal definitely has hand-dipped ice cream and sherbet in the MDR every lunch and dinner.  

[leaveitallbehind]

2 minutes ago, brillohead said:

I'm pretty sure Royal also has hand-dipped ice cream in the buffet at dinner, in addition to the MDR at lunch and dinner.  I don't do the buffet for dinner, but I was in there one evening to grab some cookies for my son to have in our room, and I saw an employee dishing up ice cream over by the desserts (don't recall if there were two or three different flavors on offer -- it was a couple years ago).  

But Royal definitely has hand-dipped ice cream and sherbet in the MDR every lunch and dinner.  

 

But only as a desert with those meals served there and in limited flavors.  Otherwise it is their chocolate / vanilla soft serve or B & J's (on those ships with that) for a fee. 

 

The point I was making with Celebrity in comparison is that their ice cream is offered at n/c as a walk up in a variety of flavors in the buffet anytime it is open, not just as a desert serving such as with RCI.  

[AL3XCruise]

6 hours ago, GenghisQuan said:

Regarding the "nickel and diming" for food, it's just a matter of the food being noticeably lower quality compared to other mass market lines like Carnival, whether that's ingredients, variety of items at the buffet, how quickly places close, sophistication of cooking technique and presentation, as well as an observation that far too much space is devoted to different venues that are all too small to fit everyone who might want to eat there, and the theory that this is meant to push people to reserve spaces at for-fee restaurants.

 

I've been on X, RCI, and NCL.  The best and worst MDR experiences I've had have been on NCL.  It seems to me that they lack the level of consistency other brands offer.  While that might be because they are more focused on providing revenue generating food options, those options tend to get mixed reviews as well.  I haven't cruised enough to offer a statistically significant sample, but I'm not sure if it a conscious effort to move people towards specialty venues or a broader issue with quality control.

 

3 minutes ago, brillohead said:

I beg to differ -- plenty of people are more than happy not to utilize all the things that are "included" in a fancy high-end expensive cruise line, so the total cost is nowhere near comparable.  

 

Everyone needs to do the math for themselves.  But you are right, that in general, when services are bundled together the average consumer ends up paying more.  After all, bundling is a very successful strategy used in many industries. 

 

If you don't plan to use non-included services and don't mind watching your expenses carefully when on vacation, there are opportunities to save.  Some folks either use everything or value certain intangible benefits.  For example, some folks might be willing to pay a premium for a beverage package or all inclusive line to avoid thinking about what they are spending on drinks, even if it is a slightly more expensive option. 

 

Hence why it is nice to have a choice!  

 

 

 

[brillohead]

19 minutes ago, AL3XCruise said:

 

Hence why it is nice to have a choice!  

 

Exactly -- I don't go on the high-end lines because the high-falutin' life doesn't appeal to me.  

Similarly, I don't shell out tens of thousands of dollars to cruise in a suite -- I only use the stateroom to shower and sleep and change clothes, so having a huge fancy space isn't of value to me.  

However, I'm very glad that there ARE fancy suites and fancy specialty restaurants (or even ships that are "all fancy all the time") for the people who DO want those types of amenities.  Everyone should be able to have the vacation that suits their own needs.  

If all cruise lines were all-inclusive of absolutely everything -- alcoholic drinks, fancy Starbucks-like coffee drinks, specialty dining, shore excursions, escape rooms, laundry facilities, first-class airfare, etc., then I daresay many/most of us on Cruise Critic would rarely be able to cruise.  

Having a variety of cruise lines and even having different staterooms and various options on each ship within a cruise line means that there is literally something for everyone.  Those of us who are happy at McDonald's and Taco Bell can cruise, those of us who are more Applebee's and Chili's can cruise, and those of us who like Ruth's Chris and Morton's can cruise. 

Taco Bell charges extra for sour cream, but you don't see people complaining about being "nickel and dimed" at Taco Bell.  Sour cream is an optional "extra" -- it's not necessary to have it on the taco, but it can enhance your experience if you want to pay for it.  Now, if Taco Bell starts to charge you extra if you want your taco to come in a shell/tortilla,  THAT would be something you would consider nickel and diming!!!!

Edited May 24, 2019 by brillohead

[Heidi13]

On 5/22/2019 at 1:56 PM, SantaFeFan said:

 

One way to look at this is to compare a cruise to a typical land vacation. Rare is a land vacation "all inclusive", and in most cases requires payment for "little extra charges" such as meals at restaurants, admission prices to museums or tourist sites, transportation, souvenirs, entertainment, etc. Like many, I prefer most of the items on a cruise to be included in the base fare or paid for in advance. But when on a land vacation, I have no problem with paying for extra fee items since that is how such vacations work.

 

I find it interesting that people in general tend to consider a cruise experience differently than a land vacation. Not criticizing anyone, just commenting on my own level of tolerance differences for extra fees for the two different types of vacations and how it seems to match what many people feel. 

A very valid point.

 

For many of us that experienced cruise ships in the 70's/80's or earlier,  we grew to expect a level of quality and service that none of the mainstream mega ships now provide. Other than drinks, at reasonable prices, and Shore-ex, they didn't have many extras.

 

However, when going to a hotel, we accepted paying for meals, entertainment, etc.

 

Sadly, the mainstream lines have conditioned newer cruise customers, to expect lower standards of service and quality,  and also to pay extra for a multitude of services.

 

 

[Heidi13]

1 hour ago, brillohead said:

I beg to differ -- plenty of people are more than happy not to utilize all the things that are "included" in a fancy high-end expensive cruise line, so the total cost is nowhere near comparable.  

That's what always gets me about all the "nickel and diming" complaints... if you don't want something, don't get it! 

None of the "extras" are actually necessary things.  It's not like you get on board and they charge you for toilet paper for your stateroom, or a napkin at a meal.  You don't have to swipe your keycard to gain entrance to the public toilets (anyone else old enough to remember when places had pay toilets... if you didn't have a coin, you didn't get to pee!).  All of the extra items are voluntary things... nobody is forcing you to partake, and your cruise IS a complete vacation without the extras.  

Lodging and entertainment and food and plain beverages (water, coffee, milk, iced/hot tea) are always included.  The gratuity / Daily Service Charge is spelled out at the time of booking and can be included in the booking cost so it's also "included" and not added on later.  

If you prepay your gratuities, it's ENTIRELY possible to walk off the ship at the end of a week with ZERO bill due, while still having a very enjoyable vacation and gaining weight from all the free included food.  

I personally choose to get the soda package (I don't drink coffee, so diet Coke is my caffeine fix) and an internet package, both of which I purchase before boarding.  Probably 95% of the time, my only folio charges are the Daily Service Charge.  And I have a great time, and people back home are always envious of all the pictures I post on Facebook, and countless friends have asked me for advice on how to pick a cruise, what to look for, what cruise line would be best for their circumstances, etc.  Even a "no extras added" cruise is a dang good time!

Wow!!! you have to pay  service charges.

 

That's the benefit of the cruise industry, their are options for everyone. For those of us that have cruised for many years and still enjoy the quality and inclusiveness we have premium & luxury lines.

 

You obviously enjoy a more basic cruise, so enjoy your mega ships.

[brillohead]

8 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

Wow!!! you have to pay  service charges.

 

That's the benefit of the cruise industry, their are options for everyone. For those of us that have cruised for many years and still enjoy the quality and inclusiveness we have premium & luxury lines.

 

You obviously enjoy a more basic cruise, so enjoy your mega ships.

Wow, condescending much?  

I specifically said that some people want all the extras, and some people don't.  I also said that everyone is entitled to the vacation type they want -- fancy or not -- and that the vast majority of people wouldn't be able to cruise at all if a super-fancy cruise were the only option available.  

And I'm not sure what my choosing to have a "basic" cruise experience (which is still way more luxurious a vacation than the majority of North Americans will experience) has to do with your comment about mega ships?  There are fancy suites on big ships and on little ships, just as there are inside rooms on big ships and little ships.  My spending habits are the same on Explorer class as they are on Oasis class.  My spending habits on Royal are also the same as they were on Carnival, Holland American, Celebrity, and Princess.  

I don't look down my nose at you for spending tens of thousands of dollars on a cruise -- I'm glad that there are luxury lines that suit your needs.  The fact that you look down your nose at everyone who doesn't cruise a luxury line says an awful lot about your character, however.