Cuba Travel

[Observer]

Like many other cruise lines, Silversea has scheduled a number of visits to Cuba.  Speaking to a Cuban-American group in Miami this spring, John Bolton predicted that the Trump administration would severely limit such touristic travel.  The announcement came today.  Please see below for AP story.  Presumably, Silversea has backup plans and lots of itineraries will have to be modified.

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WASHINGTON (AP) — The Trump administration on Tuesday imposed major new travel restrictions on visits to Cuba by U.S. citizens, including a ban on many forms of educational and recreational travel.

The Treasury Department said in a statement that the U.S. will no longer allow the group educational and cultural trips known as “people to people” travel to the island. Those trips have been used by thousands of American citizens to visit the island even before the U.S. restored full diplomatic relations with the communist government in December 2014.

Treasury said it would also deny permission for private and corporate aircraft and boats. However, commercial airline flights appear to be unaffected and travel for university groups, academic research, journalism and professional meetings will continue to be allowed.

“It kills the people-to-people category, which is the most common way for the average American to travel to Cuba,” said Collin Laverty, head of Cuba Educational Travel, one of the largest Cuba travel companies in the U.S.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said the measures are a response to what it calls Cuba’s “destabilizing role” in the Western Hemisphere, including support for the government of President Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela.

“Cuba continues to play a destabilizing role in the Western Hemisphere, providing a communist foothold in the region and propping up U.S. adversaries in places like Venezuela and Nicaragua by fomenting instability, undermining the rule of law, and suppressing democratic processes,” he said. “This administration has made a strategic decision to reverse the loosening of sanctions and other restrictions on the Cuban regime. These actions will help to keep U.S. dollars out of the hands of Cuban military, intelligence, and security services.”

The new restrictions had been previewed by national security adviser John Bolton in an April speech in Miami to veterans of the failed 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion but details of the changed were public until Tuesday. Treasury said the sanctions would take effect on Wednesday after they are published in the Federal Register.

[Observer]

Sorry to reply to my own post.  It was too late to edit.

 

It may be that the new regulations will be only forward looking and that visits/port stops already scheduled and booked by tourists will be protected and can move forward unimpeded.  This would surely be a welcome scenario by the cruise lines and other travel providers.  Perhaps we will have to wait and see the regs as published in the Federal Register.  I read somewhere that there was a surge in bookings to Cuba after Bolton predicted a crackdown in the spring.

[RunBikeCruiseDC]

23 minutes ago, Observer said:

Sorry to reply to my own post.  It was too late to edit.

 

It may be that the new regulations will be only forward looking and that visits/port stops already scheduled and booked by tourists will be protected and can move forward unimpeded.  This would surely be a welcome scenario by the cruise lines and other travel providers.  Perhaps we will have to wait and see the regs as published in the Federal Register.  I read somewhere that there was a surge in bookings to Cuba after Bolton predicted a crackdown in the spring.

I'm wondering if some of us can do a quick last minute cruise to cuba?  I can't go until after schools let out which is why I haven't booked yet.

[Observer]

Apparently there is a grandfathering provision. 

 

According to the announcement by Treasury " OFAC’s regulatory changes include a “grandfathering” provision, which provides that certain group people-to-people educational travel that previously was authorized will continue to be authorized where the traveler had already completed at least one travel-related transaction (such as purchasing a flight or reserving accommodation) prior to June 5, 2019."

 

Thus, if I understand this correctly, people already booked on cruises to Cuba will be able to carry on with their plans.  I should think this would be welcome news to the cruise lines.

[MHF]

The question in my mind is does SilverSea (And other lines) want to risk the interpretation of the grandfather clause or does their insurance/corporate policies indicate they should modify/cancel.  I assume they have their lawyers and political experts investigating.

 

I am booked for March 2020 so plenty of time for it to shake out.   Worst case scenario would be to assume we are going to Havana and Santiago and have SS change at the last minute (or right after the payment!).

[Observer]

1 hour ago, MHF said:

The question in my mind is does SilverSea (And other lines) want to risk the interpretation of the grandfather clause or does their insurance/corporate policies indicate they should modify/cancel.  I assume they have their lawyers and political experts investigating.

 

I am booked for March 2020 so plenty of time for it to shake out.   Worst case scenario would be to assume we are going to Havana and Santiago and have SS change at the last minute (or right after the payment!).

 

Here's a more recent story from the AP. Emphasis added:

 

“Cruise ships as well as recreational and pleasure vessels are prohibited from departing the U.S. on temporary sojourn to Cuba effective tomorrow,” the Commerce Department said in a statement to The Associated Press.

The new restrictions are part of a broader effort by the administration of President Donald Trump to roll back the Obama-era efforts to restore normal relations between the United States and Cuba, which drew sharp criticism from the more hardline elements of the Cuban-American community and their allies in Congress.

U.S. national security adviser John Bolton, who declared Cuba part of a “troika of tyranny” along with Nicaragua and Venezuela as he outlined new sanctions in November, said the new policy is intended to deny the Cuban government a vital source of revenue.

“The Administration has advanced the President’s Cuba policy by ending ‘veiled tourism’ to Cuba and imposing restrictions on vessels,” Bolton said on Twitter. “We will continue to take actions to restrict the Cuban regime’s access to U.S. dollars.”

Cruise lines carrying passengers booked before Tuesday had been hoping that they could request specific federal permits to complete their trips to Cuba, said Pedro Freyre, a Miami-based attorney who represents Carnival and three other major cruise lines.

“For now, it’s prohibited unless the cruise lines requests a specific license,” Freyre said. He said cruise lines had been trying to determine “if there’s any opening there to at least complete trips that have been booked and passengers that have made travel plans.”

Norwegian Cruise Line said in a statement that it was scrutinizing the new rules and consulting with lawyers and trade experts.

“We are closely monitoring these recent developments and any resulting impact to cruise travel to Cuba,” Norwegian Cruise Line said in a statement. “We will communicate to our guests and travel partners as additional information becomes available.”

Edited June 4, 2019 by Observer
Later AP story

[les37b]

I know its probably a silly question, what is it exactly that the US government has against Cuba after all those years since the missile crisis?

 

I know political debate is frowned upon, but hopefully someone can explain why US citizens going to Cuba is actually a problem?

 

 

I know here in the UK we often get "advisory" notices about visiting some countries deemed to have safety issues etc, but never anything like this. Or has there been? 

 

Anyway..... hopefully everyone who wants to go, gets the ships filled and SS don't have a reason to cancel from poor bookings.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by les37b

[Observer]

9 minutes ago, les37b said:

I know its probably a silly question.....

 

 

 

 

There is no need to apologize.  Inquiring minds want to know.... POTUS happens to be in your neighborhood today.  Why don't you pop by and put the question directly to him?  

[les37b]

1 minute ago, Observer said:

 

There is no need to apologize.  Inquiring minds want to know.... POTUS happens to be in your neighborhood today.  Why don't you pop by and put the question directly to him?  

 

OK. I appreciate that for a couple of years travel has been possible and guess part of this might just be undoing what the previous President did - because he can....... but it doesn't explain why its been this way for so long..... (That was really what I was asking - and trying not to mention Trump as I know the topic is as devisive as Brexit!)

[Mahogany]

Do you think Nicaragua is off-limits also to cruise lines, since it's part of John Bolton's "troika of tyranny"? Nicaragua is often a cruise stop for Panama Canal voyages.

[BeeMinor]

ARGH. We are booked on a Cuba cruise for February 2020, so I'm hopping in here too. Let's keep one another posted, people whose cruises might be changed. I have no particular interest in a non-Cuba Caribbean sailing on the Wind so I hope they decide promptly. 

 

53 minutes ago, les37b said:

I know its probably a silly question, what is it exactly that the US government has against Cuba after all those years since the missile crisis?

 

I know political debate is frowned upon, but hopefully someone can explain why US citizens going to Cuba is actually a problem?

 

A couple of fundamental reasons--one is simply that it's a relic of the Cold War. The notion of good patriotic Americans giving our bucks to the commies and so on. (Although considering the amount of goods we import from China and Vietnam . . . ) Another is that Cuban Americans are an important voting bloc in a swing state and, generally speaking, that's a group of people who heartily dislike the current Cuban regime. Whether those are actually problems is entirely up to interpretation.

[les37b]

5 minutes ago, BeeMinor said:

A couple of fundamental reasons--one is simply that it's a relic of the Cold War. The notion of good patriotic Americans giving our bucks to the commies and so on. (Although considering the amount of goods we import from China and Vietnam . . . ) Another is that Cuban Americans are an important voting bloc in a swing state and, generally speaking, that's a group of people who heartily dislike the current Cuban regime. Whether those are actually problems is entirely up to interpretation.

 

Ok thank you. Hadn't considered the second reason, though even that seems crazy and must hurt those they've left behind!

 

I know we share many similar attributes, but I can't help thinking we'd be up in arms (not literally - we have gun control here! lol) if we were told you can't go to a country we once had problems with.... and even stranger its accepted and even supported.

 

Anyway..... enough on the politics!

[bk32720]

I just came back from Cuba last week and the trip was amazing.  I believe we selected "Support for the Cuba people", but we did do our tours through Royal Caribbean.  The ship was old and tired, but the tours were amazing.  We spent over 5 hours touring the city and speaking with locals.  Everyone was friendly and happy.  We felt safe, even at midnight, walking back to our ship.  Our guide explained that there are no drugs or guns in Cuba.  Their healthcare is FREE, their education is FREE, up to 6 years in college.  Since most are government employees, they have a car and gas allowance.  Whatever home or apartment they were in at the time of the revolution, then became theirs.  If the gardener or maid was left behind to watch the mansion after the owners fled, it then became theirs.  So, let's see...no house pmt, no car pmt, no insurance pmt, no college loans, free health care, no homeless.....I wouldn't need to make much money either.  The only crimes are usually alcohol (rum) related.  The many local people that I met did not seem or act repressed.  Quite the opposite actually, they seemed carefree and happy.  Just my 2 cents. At night, we went to a local jazz club that had great music and dancing.  Even the locals on the street at midnight said that they hoped we had a good time in Cuba.  I wish I could go back for a few more days exploring the island.  The buildings were amazing, although they were hit hard by some hurricanes and tornado recently.  I am more afraid of getting off in ports in Jamaica, Bahamas, Mexico, Belize, Nicaragua, and Haiti.  And we didn't have any of the non-stop begging that we had in Mexico that makes it unbearable to walk the streets.  Why are cruise ships allowed to go to Nicaragua?  It doesn't make sense.

 

Edited June 4, 2019 by bk32720
Misspelling and additional info

[drron29]

Cuba is not all it seems.We had a day with a Spanish speaking guy.On our tour in the old cars our guide said the driver is happy for you to ask questions.My wife asked-"if you were President for a day what is the one thing you would change?"The answer-Everything.Didn't sound like paradise.Also although health care is free if you are not a member of the party and don't have a Government job your health care is of very poor quality.

[les37b]

57 minutes ago, drron29 said:

Cuba is not all it seems.We had a day with a Spanish speaking guy.On our tour in the old cars our guide said the driver is happy for you to ask questions.My wife asked-"if you were President for a day what is the one thing you would change?"The answer-Everything.Didn't sound like paradise.Also although health care is free if you are not a member of the party and don't have a Government job your health care is of very poor quality.

 

We had a similar type interesting conversation last year with the tour guide in HCMC, which started by him saying he was asked if they held a grudge, which he said no. I thought at first he was talking about US tourists, now the country had opened up. He in fact was talking about the North South divide and the discrimination that exists.for being on the wrong side despite "unification". It was actually a very interesting half hour where he told how he got to the final selection of a cabin crew job after being whittled down from 10,000 to 12, to be turned down because he had an uncle who fled to the US. All the new luxury sky rise properties built on the Saigon are owned by people from Hanoi and no way someone from the south could ever afford. To be fair, he did seem quite happy, but you could sense there was justified resentment going on! If only his Uncle had stayed put!

 

Was travel to Vietnam ever prohibited for US Citizens (by the US)?

[Stumblefoot]

2 hours ago, BeeMinor said:

Another is that Cuban Americans are an important voting bloc in a swing state and, generally speaking, that's a group of people who heartily dislike the current Cuban regime.

 

Ding, ding, ding, ding... winner, winner, chicken dinner! 

 

And, there you have it.  That swing state (Florida) for presidential elections has been one of the most important, if not most important, since 2000.

[TLCOhio]

1 hour ago, drron29 said:

Cuba is not all it seems. We had a day with a Spanish speaking guy.On our tour in the old cars our guide said the driver is happy for you to ask questions. My wife asked-"if you were President for a day what is the one thing you would change?" The answer-Everything.Didn't sound like paradise. Also although health care is free if you are not a member of the party and don't have a Government job your health care is of very poor quality.

 

Very good above summary from Dr. Ron and important comments from others.  Yes, Florida politics is part of the equation.  Plus, the mess in Venezuela, etc   It's complicated!!  Having visited Cuba in March 2001 on an "educational" exchange, the history and situations there are "unique" and not exactly "normal.  Fidel Castro is gone, but the severe limitations on the people of Cuba are very challenging.  No Internet, few freedoms, poorly-functioning economy, etc.  But, great people, wonderful culture, excellent history, amazing architecture and exciting music, etc.  Will be interested to see how ALL of this plays out in future months and years. 

 

THANKS!  Enjoy!  Terry in Ohio

 

Amazon River-Caribbean 2015 adventure live/blog starting in Barbados. Many visuals from this amazing river and Caribbean Islands (Dutch ABC's, St. Barts, Dominica, Grenada, San Juan, etc.).  Now at 63,947 views:

www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2157696

 

[MHF]

RCL just canceled their Cuba stops for June 5 and 6.  Clients are receiving 50% credit back and stopping in Mexico instead.

[turtlemichael]

15 hours ago, drron29 said:

Cuba is not all it seems.We had a day with a Spanish speaking guy.On our tour in the old cars our guide said the driver is happy for you to ask questions.My wife asked-"if you were President for a day what is the one thing you would change?"The answer-Everything.Didn't sound like paradise.Also although health care is free if you are not a member of the party and don't have a Government job your health care is of very poor quality.

I haven't been there but would love to go. The situations you report are all good reasons why dialogue should be kept open and Cubans exposed to cruise visitors.

[Tothesunset]

This is copied and pasted from the SS UK website today:

 

CUBA TRAVEL POLICY UPDATE

We are aware of the Cuba announcement by the US government and are analyzing the details to understand the impact on our itineraries. In the meantime, we are adjusting our future itineraries, which will no longer stop in Cuba. We are communicating with our guests and travel partners about those changes. We will provide other updates

as needed.

 

[Tothesunset]

I note also that the Wind voyages in spring 2020 are now not showing on the website. We are booked on 16 Mar and have already booked flights to MIA, car parking and pre- flight hotel. We are hoping that the embarkation port and times remain unchanged but I'm sure we will learn more in the coming days. 

 

Originally we were to be on the East-West TA, that was cancelled so we moved our booking to the Cuba itinerary and now that has changed. Just unlucky, I guess. 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Tothesunset

[Tothesunset]

Above, that should say Eastbound TA. Ooops. 

[BeeMinor]

I just saw the same message on the the US site, so there goes my small but hopeful dream that they were just going to sail out of Barbados or something instead. We were really booked to see Cuba, not the Caribbean at large, so I very much hope there will be accommodations for those who may want to switch or cancel. 

[seaquay]

The 22nd November departure has now been removed as well, was waitlisted last night after the update from the US.  Will be interetsting to see how they plan to fill the 9 days that the original itinerary had us getting to and visiting Cuba in between  leaving Fort Lauderdale and getting to Cozumel.  

 

We too have flights, transfers and pre hotel booked independently so worst case scenario will be a 14 night stay somewhere in the sun in Florida(and befoire some one jumps in I am not saying that 14 nights in Florida is a bad thing, just not what we had planned). 

Edited June 5, 2019 by seaquay
spelling mistake

[Observer]

23 minutes ago, seaquay said:

The 22nd November departure has now been removed as well, was waitlisted last night after the update from the US.  Will be interetsting to see how they plan to fill the 9 days that the original itinerary had us getting to and visiting Cuba in between  leaving Fort Lauderdale and getting to Cozumel.  

 

We too have flights, transfers and pre hotel booked independently so worst case scenario will be a 14 night stay somewhere in the sun in Florida(and befoire some one jumps in I am not saying that 14 nights in Florida is a bad thing, just not what we had planned). 

 

It will be interesting to see how they handle this.  I imagine they will simply add a number of other Caribbean ports to replace the Cuba stops.  Would you resist this and stay on land instead?  Perhaps they will even offer some future cruise credit for guests booked on this voyage.

 

This is a huge mess for Silversea management and a great disappointment to guests who were looking forward to visiting Cuba.  I feel for them.   But I feel -- perhaps even more keenly -- for the many Cubans for whom the huge influx of cruise line tourists was a precious source of badly needed income.