Fate of Empress and Majesty of the Seas?

[Hoopster95]

Just now, Biker19 said:

But that Honda is paid for and the monthly payments on the Benz are really big.

 

Costs waaaaaaaaay more to keep the Honda running in insurance, maintenance and inspections.... and then the real life risk of doing a "Triumph" on an old junker in the middle of the ocean and having to deal with the financial aftermath

[Biker19]

3 minutes ago, Hoopster95 said:

Costs waaaaaaaaay more to keep the Honda running in insurance, maintenance and inspections.... 

For a well maintained Accord, no way and it could be the same for MJ and EN. But you did have it right in that there's little on board revenue opportunities and that could be the deciding factor.

[BillB48]

42 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

I don’t think the capital investment to retrofit these older ships to comply with the California shore to ship power requirements would ever pay off. 

 

The capital investment to bring a ship compliant with CARB, I don't believe is the major drawback, although do doubt a consideration.  From what I have read it costs about 2-3 million to equip a passenger ship to use shore power.  The biggest stumbling block (as I read the requirements mandated by CARB) is once they make a ship compliant then the remainder of the Royal's fleet loses the exemption to call on a California port without having the equipment to go on to shore power.  At present any of their ships that call on a California port can make 5 visits per year under the exemption.  Make one compliant.... then poof goes the exemption!

Edited June 6, 2019 by BillB48

[Don Pedro]

Let's not make the assumption that Cuba will be closed forever. In the meantime both ships could serve as cheap transportation to the not so cheap Coco Cay.

[Hoopster95]

26 minutes ago, Biker19 said:

For a well maintained Accord, no way and it could be the same for MJ and EN. But you did have it right in that there's little on board revenue opportunities and that could be the deciding factor.

 

Yep... bottom line: Royal is not building more Empresses or Majestys... they are building more Oasis and Quantum Classes. There's plenty of easy reasons why, and likely so many more reasons we are not privy to.

 

12 minutes ago, BillB48 said:

At present any of their ships that call on a California port can make 5 visits per year under the exemption.  Make one compliant.... then poof goes the exemption!

 

Ah!! Then buh bye go the Panama Canal transits with a ship (ie. Vision) showing up at Long Beach only 3 or 4 times in a year.

Thanks for that info BillB

[Hoopster95]

Just now, Don Pedro said:

Let's not make the assumption that Cuba will be closed forever. In the meantime both ships could serve as cheap transportation to the not so cheap Coco Cay.

 

Excellent point...

Isn't Vision Class as a better Cuban option (as long as Vision Class fits into the various Cuban ports of call)? Better because of the amenities (specialties, lounges, public space shops on board), number of suites/balconies, younger than both EM/MJ, etc. Only reason to keep MJ is number of passengers they can sardine can onto the ship (right down Royal's alley regarding the all mighty dollar).

[hales1284]

Empress and Majesty will be making their way to other operators.  There is simply no way Royal Caribbean is going to recoup operating costs on these old ships with standard itineraries.  

 

In the interim I suspect these ships will frequent CocoCay making short 3 or 4 day Bahamas cruises at a deep discount.  

 

Cuba was the last market where Royal could charge a higher fare on these old

ships and make a profit doing so.  They’re not going to get that same return on Bahamas trips. 

 

[Cruising89143]

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/20966-cuba-travel-ban-could-ignite-secondhand-ship-market.html

[Tapi]

15 minutes ago, Don Pedro said:

Let's not make the assumption that Cuba will be closed forever. In the meantime both ships could serve as cheap transportation to the not so cheap Coco Cay.

I’ve thought about this as well. It would probably be wise for Royal and other cruise lines operating cruises to Cuba to keep these ships and give them short term alternate assignments, at least for a predetermined amount of time, in case the latest policy is reversed (for any number of reasons, including a change in diplomatic relations between the US and Cuba, or changes in the US administration) which could allow cruises to resume in a fairly short amount of time. For all we know, this policy could be revised next week!

 

It would be short sighted to quickly get rid of these ships, only for policies to change once again. I guess they could always use a vision class ship if Majesty and Empress are gone before any policy changes occur. 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Tapi

[actuarian]

30 minutes ago, BillB48 said:

At present any of their ships that call on a California port can make 5 visits per year under the exemption.  Make one compliant.... then poof goes the exemption!

The exemption is per-port, not per-ship.  According to the California Air Resources Board, the regulation "applies to an operator of a passenger-vessel fleet whose vessels cumulatively make five or more visits annually to any single port."  Still, the impact is the same; if the Empress or the Majesty is assigned to a California Port, not only will that ship have to comply with the power requirements but so will all ships that make a stop in California during a repositioning cruise from Florida to Alaska.   That would not be profitable.

[WillandTam]

I agree with Tapi, Royal should consider basing these ships at least for a time to see if they can make a go of it in Charleston, Mobile, Tampa. Our closest port is Charleston and don't cruise from there because the only option is Carnival. Did it once, not again. We would jump at the chance to cruise Royal out of Charleston. Why should the close to home ports be only the purview of Carnival?

[CruiseAdict218]

For how quick it was closed it can be reopened and if cruise lines sell off their smaller tonnage what will they do then? I wonder if the ports will still be upgraded in Cuba?

[ONECRUISER]

18 hours ago, kruzerci said:

Makes you wonder if they knew something was in the political pipeline. 

 

Bringing Indy back to the short cruise market, sell one or both of the older ships, give the passengers price protection on Independence, and then selling the remainder and premium prices with the ship primarily going to private islands. 

Doubt it. Royal ships been sailing above 105% Capacity. Actually surprised Govt didnt do it sooner. Royal been putting these sailing only months out for couple yrs in case

[Beav1279]

Random thought - and I'm not sure the feasibility of this - All of RCI ships are registered to Nassau, correct? Why not move the Empress and/or Majesty to embark/disembark in Nassau? They could still do cruises to Cuba from there, correct? I know that passengers would have to pay a little more for airfare, but most people are flying to the port, anyways... this would still give a Cuba option at the inflated price.

I know nothing about ship location logistics, but it's just a thought..

[not-enough-cruising]

48 minutes ago, Beav1279 said:

Random thought - and I'm not sure the feasibility of this - All of RCI ships are registered to Nassau, correct? Why not move the Empress and/or Majesty to embark/disembark in Nassau? They could still do cruises to Cuba from there, correct? I know that passengers would have to pay a little more for airfare, but most people are flying to the port, anyways... this would still give a Cuba option at the inflated price.

I know nothing about ship location logistics, but it's just a thought..

I would guess that Nassau doesn’t have anything close to the infrastructure required to home port a ship. 

[Tapi]

1 hour ago, Beav1279 said:

Random thought - and I'm not sure the feasibility of this - All of RCI ships are registered to Nassau, correct? Why not move the Empress and/or Majesty to embark/disembark in Nassau? They could still do cruises to Cuba from there, correct? I know that passengers would have to pay a little more for airfare, but most people are flying to the port, anyways... this would still give a Cuba option at the inflated price.

I know nothing about ship location logistics, but it's just a thought..

Well, MSC used to operate their Cuba-bound ship from Montego Bay before the US policies were relaxed, at which time they began cruising from Miami aboard the Armonía. I’m guessing that, at least MSC could revert to the way things used to be, offering Cuba cruises from Montego Bay for their NON-US citizens. 

 

I don’t know if US based cruise lines will be allowed to operate cruises to Cuba from foreign ports under the latest policies, or if Americans will be allowed to sail on those cruises if they depart from a foreign port under the  “Support for the Cuban People” clause, which apparently remains unaltered. But assuming that the answer to both queries is yes, I guess it would be a clever and legal way to circumvent the latest policies, and continue offering Cuba cruises to Americans. 

 

About facilities, I’m positive that a temporary tent terminal could be erected very quickly (it’s been done several times) while a more permanent solution is figured out. They could start with one ship to see if people are receptive to the concept. 

 

Edited June 6, 2019 by Tapi

[ew101]

"For 2020 sailings on both Majesty and Empress of the Seas, we are working to secure alternative itineraries and expect to be able to communicate to our guests and travel partners within the next week."

From the 6/5/19 Cuba Bulletin on RCCL.COM.  

RCCL shareholders expect revenue growth year after year.  Anything that floats (insert old ship name here) is going out 105% full.   And margins are good industry wide.  And having no mortgage helps.   
 

Edited June 7, 2019 by ew101

[Biker19]

12 hours ago, ew101 said:

Anything that floats (insert old ship name here) is going out 105% full.  

They can't even be bothered to get the reported number from their SEC fillings of 108%.🙄

[ew101]

 

1 hour ago, Biker19 said:

They can't even be bothered to get the reported number from their SEC fillings of 108%.🙄

Sorry my post needed another line space.  I was responding to the OP on the topic of the older ships going away with the web site quote about 2020 sailings.   The comments not in quotes and 105% number are mine.  

[birdylady]

22 hours ago, WillandTam said:

I agree with Tapi, Royal should consider basing these ships at least for a time to see if they can make a go of it in Charleston, Mobile, Tampa. Our closest port is Charleston and don't cruise from there because the only option is Carnival. Did it once, not again. We would jump at the chance to cruise Royal out of Charleston. Why should the close to home ports be only the purview of Carnival?

I completely agree.  RCI sailing out of Charleston could do 3 nighters to Bermuda easily. IF Charleston would allow it.  They constantly say they don't like all the tourists (seriously?).  But Charleston/Bermuda is a due East/West trip and would be perfect.  And if/when Bermuda is not in season, could still do Bahamas.

Erika

[BecciBoo]

On 6/5/2019 at 4:25 PM, Ourusualbeach said:

Perhaps they could move Empress to Europe.  With her smaller size she could do a lot of unique itineraries.

 

MJ...transfer to Pulmanteur

 I would put money on both ships being used for Coco Cay as shuttles.  They already announced overnight stays in the future for that island.  These would be perfect to that end and could make stops in both Grand Bahamas and Nassau.

 

No skin off my nose, I never wanted to see Cuba anyways, but feel for those of you who are booked there.  Announcement did not mention Grandfathering nor the date to go into effect.

[ALWAYS CRUZIN]

On 6/5/2019 at 5:05 PM, tx121 said:

Now with the news of cruise ships no longer being able to visit Cuba, what do you think will happen to Empress and Majesty of the Seas?The Voyager class ships are now doing the shorter routes that these ships used to do. Do you think they will be sold? A lot of money has gone in to Empress to bring her back...wonder what RCL will decide

 

The Empress will be doing a two port to key West and Cozumel Mexico. Also the following is an example.

Saturday, August 10	Miami, FL		4:00pm
Sunday, August 11	CocoCay, Bahamas	7:00am	4:00pm
Monday, August 12	At Sea
Tuesday, August 13	San Juan, Puerto Rico	3:00am	11:59pm
Wednesday, August 14	St. Croix, U.S. Virgin Islands	8:30am	7:00pm
Thursday, August 15	St. Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands	7:00am	5:00pm
Friday, August 16	At Sea
Saturday, August 17	At Sea
Sunday, August 18	Miami, FL	7:00am

[seacruise9]

Hi, 

 

I predict that both ships will be leaving the Royal Caribbean fleet soon. They both have small cabins and very few balcony staterooms. The only reason that Royal Caribbean still has these ships was to sail on the Cuba cruises. They will probably do short and steeply discounted cruises until they are sold or transferred.

 

Chuck

[johnjen]

For both, put them on the Bermuda route and/or New England route. Great short itineraries.

[cruisebot21]

Easy - 

Move them both to non-US ports in the Caribbean and continue to do trips to Cuba.