Zuiderdam prevented from leaving port by protesters

[Germancruiser]

Living in Germany - I think I, too am on a different planet, sometimes ! After the accident in Japan we decided to close done all those nuclear plants! Ever since that day we kill birds and insects with our wind plants- or even back to coal or gas..!

If you see a japanese guy bowing low when greeting a German- they do not so out of respect- they cringe in the middle - from laughing..!

[old mike]

1 hour ago, *Miss G* said:

Natural gas or coal?  Is that still a thing?  I thought most electricity was from hydro or nuclear plants.  I think I’m on a different planet.  lol

Closed cycle or open cycle gas fired turbines are a significant source of dependable power globally, look at  the UK power generation website http://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/index.php the CCGT are natural Gas fired generators. there are similar sites for other countries, I have not bothered to list them. 

 

One of the dirty secrets of those pushing unreliable wind and solar energy is that somewhere on the grid l there has to be a fossil fuel  based generator on standby, one that is capable of being turned up to full capacity quickly when the sun is hidden by clouds or the wind stops blowing. The cost to keep these units on standby should really be a cost that is born by the owners of the so called renewable power source, however it isn't and instead the grid customers pay and they also pay for very generous and unwarranted  subsidies  to the wind and solar power facility owners.The so called renewable energy industry is one of the most corrupt and dishonest assembly of people you could ever wish to not meet.  A typical trick for example is to announce a new wind farm that can power x thousand homes when the reality is that over an extended period the system will only deliver at best 33% of the theoretical KwH's of the claimed nameplate capacity.  Check the cost of electricity in Germany which has one of the highest fractions of wind and solar power in the world.

 

One the most egregious and somewhat amusing cons by this charming group of industries took place in Spain.

Spain was playing the "virtue signaling game" and had the highest government subsidies for new solar power installations in Europe. An astute  individual noted that the  "solar"  power company was claiming high generation numbers at night? The company had installed a large number of diesel generators which they turned on after sunset.

Edited June 14, 2019 by old mike
grammar

[old mike]

 tad 2005 said

 " Same with totally electric cars.  "Oh look, I am not using any hydro-carbons in my electric car".  Where does the electricity come from that you used to charge up your electric car ?   Most likely it came from natural gas or coal.   I'm sure somebody has computed how much natural gas or coal must be burned to fully charge an electric car's batteries to go 200 miles, compared to the carbon produced by simply burning gasoline for the same distance."

 

 Yes those numbers have been calculated, I don't have my files  to hand but one fact I do remember off the top of my head is that an it takes 7 years of typical driving of an electric car before you reach a break even point in carbon dioxide emissions for a conventional IC car. that is how much more energy is required to fabricate the electric car  and it's batteries.  The comparison should be done on a full life-cycle basis including the energy input for both the manufacturing and the ultimate disposal of a vehicle as well as emissions during it's active use. A new small conventional car will beat the best that Musk can produce.

[fatcat04]

1 hour ago, *Miss G* said:

Natural gas or coal?  Is that still a thing?  I thought most electricity was from hydro or nuclear plants.  I think I’m on a different planet.  lol

 

 

A very informative site to see what energy sources are used in each state of the US, which sector uses how much,  who produces what energy sources, and all kinds of good info can be found here. https://www.eia.gov/state/

[chengkp75]

10 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

Natural gas or coal?  Is that still a thing?  I thought most electricity was from hydro or nuclear plants.  I think I’m on a different planet.  lol

Oil, natural gas, and coal account for 68% of the world's energy production (I've seen up to 80% from some sources), and this percentage hasn't varied much in the last two decades.  Nuclear power only accounts for about 15%, and hydro about 16%.  Coal leads the field producing 40% of the world's electricity. 

[ski ww]

All those tree huggers out there will not like to hear all these negative facts, fake news. 

[*Miss G*]

Wow.  Thanks for the education everyone!  I had no clue.  It seems strange to me that finite resources would still be a major source of electricity for first world countries.  I thought just third world.  Live and learn.

[Seavoyage]

On 6/11/2019 at 3:28 PM, chengkp75 said:

To the best of my knowledge, none of the SDS's activities were violent.  So, I wouldn't lump them with the Weather Underground.  And keep your paranoia about the "dangerous criminals" to yourself.  And, so what if they want to abolish the cruise industry, they have just as much right to their opinion as you do.  And, again, get your facts straight, as "slapping a plastic explosive" on a ship would require hundreds of pounds, its not at all like Hollywood portrays it.

Whatever bud...

 

U.S. releases video it says shows Iran's military recovering mine 

 

 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-tanker-usa-release/us-releases-video-it-says-shows-irans-military-recovering-mine-idUSKCN1TF071

[Seavoyage]

"I call them monsters"  ~ Wolfgang Meyer-Hentrich - 

 

ZEIT ONLINE: Do you still believe that there can be sustainable cruise tourism? 

Meyer-Hentrich: Unfortunately, it is to be feared that this type of cruise imperialism will continue and cause further damage. Even if places begin to regulate mass tourism through taxes and banish them from the centers, this octopus simply spreads a little further off and calls it "like a local ." '

 

Huh, seems Wolfgang is a tad bit "paranoid"- 🙄

 

https://www.tellerreport.com/life/--cruises--"i-call-them-monsters"-.Sy8RuHcOV.html

 

Twitter feed of the 'lovely' Zuiderdam protesters -  @smashcruiseshits 

 

https://twitter.com/smashcruiseshit?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.euronews.com%2F2019%2F06%2F10%2Fclimate-activists-block-cruise-ship-from-leaving-german-port

 

 

 

[chengkp75]

3 hours ago, Seavoyage said:

Whatever bud...

 

U.S. releases video it says shows Iran's military recovering mine 

 

 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-tanker-usa-release/us-releases-video-it-says-shows-irans-military-recovering-mine-idUSKCN1TF071

Again, a shaped charge, not something you bring in your rubber dinghy.  One ship has a cargo of methanol, and this did not catch fire even after the explosion.  One ship has a cargo of naptha (the same stuff used in coleman lanterns and camp stoves), and this flammable cargo did ignite.  Both of these cargoes are carried in inert tanks to prevent explosion, but when leaked to free atmosphere they will burn.  On the other hand, marine residual fuel is almost impossible to ignite without an incendiary attached to the explosive, and this is what would be most likely in a cruise ship.  Further, neither explosion has caused sufficient damage to the ships to consider them "sinking", I believe at least one is under tow.  On a cruise ship, there are no fuel tanks along the side of the ship, and no flammable cargo tanks, all fuel tanks are along the bottom of the ship.  Yes, even using something like this limpet mine on a cruise ship, you would put a hole a couple meters across in the hull, but none of the passengers would be in danger, few of the crew, and the ship would not sink.  Have either of these two ships, carrying thousands of tons of highly flammable cargo, exploded in a fire ball, or broken in half the way hollywood always shows these things?  Nope.

[Seavoyage]

31 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Again, a shaped charge, not something you bring in your rubber dinghy.  One ship has a cargo of methanol, and this did not catch fire even after the explosion.  One ship has a cargo of naptha (the same stuff used in coleman lanterns and camp stoves), and this flammable cargo did ignite.  Both of these cargoes are carried in inert tanks to prevent explosion, but when leaked to free atmosphere they will burn.  On the other hand, marine residual fuel is almost impossible to ignite without an incendiary attached to the explosive, and this is what would be most likely in a cruise ship.  Further, neither explosion has caused sufficient damage to the ships to consider them "sinking", I believe at least one is under tow.  On a cruise ship, there are no fuel tanks along the side of the ship, and no flammable cargo tanks, all fuel tanks are along the bottom of the ship.  Yes, even using something like this limpet mine on a cruise ship, you would put a hole a couple meters across in the hull, but none of the passengers would be in danger, few of the crew, and the ship would not sink.  Have either of these two ships, carrying thousands of tons of highly flammable cargo, exploded in a fire ball, or broken in half the way hollywood always shows these things?  Nope.

"Yes, even using something like this limpet mine on a cruise ship, you would put a hole a couple meters across in the hull, but none of the passengers would be in danger, few of the crew, and the ship would not sink."  ~Chengkp75

 

Well just a 7 Foot hole in the hull?  Huh - that's comforting news.  Wonder how many thousands of gallons per minute pour into a 7 foot wide gash in the hull?  Perhaps we can still make it to Cohenhagen on time - Happy Sails

 

#Remember Green Peace

 

Look Movie Man - history will prove one of us right- hopefully it's you....till then keep your...

[killsport]

I would like to thank both @Copper10-8 and @chengkp75 for their continual efforts to keep all of us (and yes, myself included!) grounded in facts, not hyperbole and guesses. Your input (and ability to put things in context) is extremely appreciated!

[Copper10-8]

55 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Again, a shaped charge, not something you bring in your rubber dinghy.  One ship has a cargo of methanol, and this did not catch fire even after the explosion.  One ship has a cargo of naptha (the same stuff used in coleman lanterns and camp stoves), and this flammable cargo did ignite.  Both of these cargoes are carried in inert tanks to prevent explosion, but when leaked to free atmosphere they will burn.  On the other hand, marine residual fuel is almost impossible to ignite without an incendiary attached to the explosive, and this is what would be most likely in a cruise ship.  Further, neither explosion has caused sufficient damage to the ships to consider them "sinking", I believe at least one is under tow.  On a cruise ship, there are no fuel tanks along the side of the ship, and no flammable cargo tanks, all fuel tanks are along the bottom of the ship.  Yes, even using something like this limpet mine on a cruise ship, you would put a hole a couple meters across in the hull, but none of the passengers would be in danger, few of the crew, and the ship would not sink.  Have either of these two ships, carrying thousands of tons of highly flammable cargo, exploded in a fire ball, or broken in half the way hollywood always shows these things?  Nope.

 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Seavoyage said:

"Yes, even using something like this limpet mine on a cruise ship, you would put a hole a couple meters across in the hull, but none of the passengers would be in danger, few of the crew, and the ship would not sink."  ~Chengkp75

 

Well just a 7 Foot hole in the hull?  Huh - that's comforting news.  Wonder how many thousands of gallons per minute pour into a 7 foot wide gash in the hull?  Perhaps we can still make it to Cohenhagen on time - Happy Sails

 

#Remember Green Peace

 

Look Movie Man - history will prove one of us right- hopefully it's you....till then keep your...

Cruise ships are "two compartment" ships, meaning that even if two adjacent watertight compartments (and there are 12-15 of these along the length of Zuiderdam), flood completely to the waterline, the ship will not sink.  A 2 meter hole, would only breach one compartment, or, if placed absolutely correctly with no visible clues on the outside of the hull, could breach two compartments.  And the crew are trained for emergencies of hull breaches, and there are ways to semi-seal a hole like this.  Done damage control in the Navy, done more than a few piping breaks with sea ingress in 40+ years at sea.

[*Miss G*]

32 minutes ago, Seavoyage said:

"Yes, even using something like this limpet mine on a cruise ship, you would put a hole a couple meters across in the hull, but none of the passengers would be in danger, few of the crew, and the ship would not sink."  ~Chengkp75

 

Well just a 7 Foot hole in the hull?  Huh - that's comforting news.  Wonder how many thousands of gallons per minute pour into a 7 foot wide gash in the hull?  Perhaps we can still make it to Cohenhagen on time - Happy Sails

 

#Remember Green Peace

 

Look Movie Man - history will prove one of us right- hopefully it's you....till then keep your...

 

Why the aggression?  An offensive tactic indicates a lack of substance beneath.  Be wise with words and know your limitations.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Thanks a lot, John, really made my day.

[Copper10-8]

11 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Thanks a lot, John, really made my day.

 

Classic war movie Cheng! 

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

Classic war movie Cheng! 

Yeah, and I was around when they made the damn movie.

[AmazedByCruising]

18 hours ago, old mike said:

A typical trick for example is to announce a new wind farm that can power x thousand homes when the reality is that over an extended period the system will only deliver at best 33% of the theoretical KwH's of the claimed nameplate capacity. 

 

From the start of the sentence I was thinking you were talking about the other trick. "x thousand homes" which somehow suggests that the people who live there now use green electricity only. For instance, in Holland only about 20% of the electricity produced is used to power homes.

[scubacruiserx2]

We received this notification yesterday concerning visits to Germany .

 

 

STEP Notifications <STEP-Notifications@STATE.GOV>

To:ACS_GERMANY@CALIST.STATE.GOV

 

Jun 19 at 11:30 AM

 

 

Exercise increased caution in Germany due to terrorism. Terrorist groups continue plotting possible attacks in Germany. Terrorists may attack with little or no warning, targeting tourist locations, transportation hubs, markets/shopping malls, local government facilities, hotels, clubs, restaurants, places of worship, parks, major sporting and cultural events, educational institutions, airports, and other public areas. Read the Safety and Security section on the country information page. If you decide to travel to Germany:

• Be aware of your surroundings when traveling to tourist locations and crowded public venues.
• Follow the instructions of local authorities.
• Monitor local media for breaking events and adjust your plans based on new information.
• Enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) to receive Alerts and make it easier to locate you in an emergency.
• Follow the Department of State on Facebook and Twitter.
• Review the Crime and Safety Reports for Germany.
• U.S. citizens who travel abroad should always have a contingency plan for emergency situations. Review the Traveler's Checklist.

Last Update: Reissued after periodic review without changes. 

To unsubscribe from this electronic mailing list, click here. Please allow 48 hours for the request to process. ===================================================== To unsubscribe to this electronic mailing list, send an email to listserv@calist.state.gov with the following in the body of the message: SIGNOFF ACS_GERMANY

 

 

Edited June 20, 2019 by scubacruiserx2

[slidergirl]

18 minutes ago, scubacruiserx2 said:

We received this notification yesterday concerning visits to Germany .

 

 

STEP Notifications <STEP-Notifications@STATE.GOV>

To:ACS_GERMANY@CALIST.STATE.GOV

 

Jun 19 at 11:30 AM

 

 

Exercise increased caution in Germany due to terrorism. Terrorist groups continue plotting possible attacks in Germany. Terrorists may attack with little or no warning, targeting tourist locations, transportation hubs, markets/shopping malls, local government facilities, hotels, clubs, restaurants, places of worship, parks, major sporting and cultural events, educational institutions, airports, and other public areas. Read the Safety and Security section on the country information page. If you decide to travel to Germany:

• Be aware of your surroundings when traveling to tourist locations and crowded public venues.
• Follow the instructions of local authorities.
• Monitor local media for breaking events and adjust your plans based on new information.
• Enroll in the Smart Traveler Enrollment Program (STEP) to receive Alerts and make it easier to locate you in an emergency.
• Follow the Department of State on Facebook and Twitter.
• Review the Crime and Safety Reports for Germany.
• U.S. citizens who travel abroad should always have a contingency plan for emergency situations. Review the Traveler's Checklist.

Last Update: Reissued after periodic review without changes. 

To unsubscribe from this electronic mailing list, click here. Please allow 48 hours for the request to process. ===================================================== To unsubscribe to this electronic mailing list, send an email to listserv@calist.state.gov with the following in the body of the message: SIGNOFF ACS_GERMANY

 

 

So what?  The State Department also has Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, France, Spain, Italy, United Kingdom on the same "alert" level as Germany.  Are you not traveling to any of those countries?   

[scubacruiserx2]

20 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

So what?  The State Department also has Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, France, Spain, Italy, United Kingdom on the same "alert" level as Germany.  Are you not traveling to any of those countries?   

 

We didn't receive any of those alerts , only this one yesterday . 

[G.M.T.]

On 6/13/2019 at 11:12 AM, JMHamburg said:

Would you mind stop talking of German people in general, please. Your words may let the people get wrong impressions of Germans. We are not all equal! Such aggressive activists destroyed entire streets at G20 summit in Hamburg, they enter ships and secure harbor areas without being punished. Sometimes, I'm just only ashamed of being a citizen of this country called Germany, embarrassing ...

This is a standard answer from older generation, don't rock the boat, everyone has to be happy - if not give them D-marks or €€€s. Appeasment at it's worst, it has never work and never will.

 

Protests i Germany have been around for more than 50 years:

 

68 Students

 

Pershing Missiles

 

Frankfurt Airport Startbahn West

 

Hambacher Forest.

 

The list goes on and on.

[G.M.T.]

On 6/12/2019 at 4:49 PM, fatcat04 said:

The red herring are in season..

 

"Criminal charges filed include causing duress, obstruction and unlawful entry. Various campaigners were masked, in violation of German law.

The incident sparked widespread media coverage in northern Germany. There appeared to be little public support for the campaigners' action. Most users posting comments on the local NDR website were critical, some calling the protesters 'criminals' and comparing their action to piracy. "

http://www.seatrade-cruise.com/news/news-headlines/police-break-environmental-campaigners-blockade-of-hal-ship-in-kiel.html

 

If the other CC member cannot or will not answer my question, then I offer you the oppolrtunity:

 

" Some laws are lax but our gun laws are very tight, how about yours? "

[G.M.T.]

On 6/12/2019 at 2:41 PM, Aquahound said:

 

Oh, I see.  You can't admit you were wrong so you change the subject.  Typical.

I don't see where I was wrong, I did admit that some of our laws are lax, as you can see I answer questions when posed to me. So I will try again, this time typing slowly:

 

" Some laws are lax but our gun laws are very tight, how about yours?"

 

Ball is in your court.