Are you bothered by discount TAs buying blocks of Seabourn suites?

[SLSD]

Here's something that came up on our recent Seabourn cruise.  When we were at our muster station on the very first day, another passenger at our station starting talking about what a great deal he and his wife had received for this itinerary (Kobe to Vancouver).  He insisted on quoting the price plus all the extras they had received (round trip airfare, transfer from Osaka airport to hotel, dinner in Kobe, transfer to pier for embarkation, and the same at the end of the cruise.  The price he quoted was remarkable.  Of course he didn't stop there and asked what we had paid for our cruise, etc.  I had not had the opportunity to school my husband that this kind of conversation is a no go---so he tried to answer.  But, he did not know the numbers as I had done all the planning and paying.  Thank goodness. 

 

Later in the cruise, another passenger who cruises many times a year with Seabourn mentioned that she is very disgruntled with this particular discount TA and is tired of the blocks of suites being sold at very low prices.  I made no comment--but just listened. 

 

So--my question to you is this?  Does this kind of discount selling of blocks of suites (it may have been 30 on our intinerary) lower the value of the brand in your eyes? Or not.  

Edited June 19, 2019 by SLSD

[Sunviking]

To be honest, I have no interest in what anyone pays and how they were able to get their fare.  We choose our cruises based on an itinerary that suits us at a time that works for us, and if the price we're quoted works for us we book.  What other people pay is not part of our equation.  I know that on flights if I were to poll people I would find folks in the same class as we have booked who paid more or less.  All I care about is if the amount we paid falls within our budget for that flight.  The same holds true for cruises as far as we are concerned. As long as Seabourn meets our expectations, their brand is not diminished  in our eyes.  Others may not feel that way, but that's up to them.

[ed01106]

I would ask for the name and number of their travel agent.  Finding a source that can provide me the same product at a lower price is a good thing.  

[SLSD]

Good answers Sunviking and ed01106.  I do know the contact info for this agent and I am on their list now. I am just asking if there is anyone who finds this kind of block buying of suites at a steep discount worrisome.  

 

I'll say this much.  I WAS bothered by the attitude of the passenger in the muster station.  Very self satisfied and boastful.  

 

By the way, we were pleased with what we paid--that was not the issue here.  It was the concern that those who got this great deal were not so gracious toward others.  

[brittany12]

I agree it is kind of bad form, very crass, to discuss fares paid so openly, and with complete strangers upon first meeting, and bragging about it. Having said that, fares often differ based on country where one lives, and cruise lines offer specials with special perks in different countries. If there is a US TA who buys in bulk at big discounts from Seabourn for the US market, and Seabourn allows this to be passed on to passengers at much lower fares for the same cabins, it is surprising to me. I would think that no one likes paying more, or considerably more, than one's neighbor for the same goods, and differing air fares for the same seats is no proper comparison, considering how airlines today sell their product , and quite openly..

[SLSD]

brittany12, There IS a US TA who buys in bulk at big discounts for the US market with Seabourn being the seller  It was surprising to me as well.  I am not in any way opposed to taking advantage of good deals, but agree with you that the issue is with the recipients and their attitude.  I had the distinct impression that the the frequent SB cruiser who made the comment to me was less bothered by the price these people were getting, but more bothered by their attitude.  How do I say it in a genteel way?  She didn't want to sail with these people.  NOT saying that everyone who used the discount TA was not gracious....

Edited June 19, 2019 by SLSD

[ed01106]

8 minutes ago, brittany12 said:

I agree it is kind of bad form, very crass, to discuss fares paid so openly, and with complete strangers upon first meeting, 

Like what temperature your prefer your beer, or if you switch hands when cutting your food, this isn’t crass or not crass but a difference in culture and expectations

[SLSD]

ed01106, You are so astute.  What we are really talking about here is a difference in culture and expectations.  I think that is what the frequent SB cruiser was lamenting.  

[frantic36]

I think if I encountered someone like this I would just politely tell them upfront that I don't discuss how much I spend with people I don't know.Heck, to be honest, I don't discuss how much I spend with people I know 😎.  If they took offence it wouldn't concern me as I don't think we would have anything in common anyway.

 

Does it concern me with regards the bulk selling by the TA? Not really, as I assume that as mentioned before that various people will have paid various prices and some Travel Agents give big OBC as inducement.

 

I also would hypothesise that Seabourn would have released the bulk sales to this TA on cruises that weren't selling as well and probably closer to sail date. So cabin choice would be more limited, which to me is an important factor. 

 

By the way SLSD we booked a segment of the world cruise next year and there was limited selection of V5 cabins left. We picked 621 as we have sailed in it before a few years ago and enjoyed it. I was very happy to read later that you also found it a good cabin choice. 

 

Julie

[SLSD]

frantic36,  So happy that we have both enjoyed 621--you will be in our room on the Sojourn.  Enjoy!

 

And you are right about why SB sells these blocks of rooms.  My husband's career as a lawyer was in the field of corporate reorganization.  He immediately commented that SB was trying  to fade their risks.  

 

The issue seems to be that the clients of the discount TA could not restrain themselves in their glee and insisted on communicating their good fortune with others.  Let's say they lacked discretion.  Perhaps other  descriptions would also apply (just quoting the frequent SB cruiser).  So--in other words, if you use a discount TA, you can share with others, but wait for the right moment and don't boast.  

Edited June 19, 2019 by SLSD

[frantic36]

16 minutes ago, SLSD said:

frantic36,  So happy that we have both enjoyed 621--you will be in our room on the Sojourn.  Enjoy!

 

And you are right about why SB sells these blocks of rooms.  My husband's career as a lawyer was in the field of corporate reorganization.  He immediately commented that SB was trying  to fade their risks.  

 

The issue seems to be that the clients of the discount TA could not restrain themselves in their glee and insisted on communicating their good fortune with others.  Let's say they lacked discretion.  Perhaps other s descriptions would also apply (just quoting the frequent SB cruiser).  So--in other words, if you use a discount TA, you can share with others, but wait for the right moment and don't boast.  

 

Totally agree with your husband. Also agree that not boasting, especially on meeting someone for the first time, is probably best. 

 

I will say I don't think this person getting a discount would make me think they are uncouth and wish they were elsewhere, it is the boasting. I think we have all met people like that from all over and various walks of life.

 

We will enjoy 621 on Sojourn for you.

 

I am doing an Adriatic sailing in a few weeks on Odyssey. I will attempt to write something but no promises as for all my good intentions I get busy and don't get around to it. But I will try.

 

Julie

 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by frantic36

[SLSD]

frantic36, I especially want to hear all about your Adriatic itinerary as that is one that my husband especially wants to do.  We are looking at October 2020.  Please give us a report--even if it is after the fact.  

[florisdekort]

I’m not bothered by it at all.  We pick the cruise we want and if we see a price we’re happy with we never look back.  

[SLSD]

florisdekort, I am on the same page you are on on.  The real issue is attitude  and I think that is what the frequent SB cruiser found offensive.  

[drneal]

I very much would like to go on Seabourn. Knowing that there are discounts would make me think twice about booking directly with the company. 

It feels like ticket scalping. The discount travel agent buys up a block of rooms and charges more than they paid.  I would expect more from a luxury line. 

Windstar changes their fare almost weekly.  It became frustrating feeling like I had to check the current fares. so to answer the OP ......

yes it would lower the value of the brand in my opinion. 

And I would tell everybody at my muster station what a great deal I got on the cruise. 

[rols]

Well, if anyone approached Seabourn, TA or not, and said they were going to buy a block of suites on a sailing I'd expect them to get a discount, size of discount dependent on the size of the block and probably the sailing as well. I can see why Seabourn would sell blocks to TAs, it moves risk to someone else who then has to resell what they bought. Also, they have to sell them at a price the TA has a shot at making some money at least, or there's no incentive. If Seabourn just ends up undercutting themselves then that's bad business, but if this helps them to show the cruise as filling up and allows them to keep pricing up on the rest of the suites, it's good. If the TA miscalculates then indeed you might get a ridiculously good deal last minute from them as some money coming in is better than none; Seabourn doesn't have that exact pressure as they can adjust crewing levels and inventory levels a bit for cruises which aren't sailing full. There's also hard to quantify benefits from having new people introduced to the brand and having TAs which make money off selling Seabourn cruises recommending them. So from my perspective, Seabourn is in the business of being successful and I'm going to assume they're good at it and if selling blocks of suites to TAs is net net good for their bottom line, I'm all for it. 

As for passengers who bring up the cost of cruises, some people and cultures have no real issue discussing what they paid for things; where we live out in Asia it's very common to be asked "so what did you pay then" for all sorts of things and we've become quite good at demurring and avoiding that question. However anyone who does that in order that they can brag about how clever they are for getting a better deal than you is someone I'd avoid. Fortunately the ships are large enough and the passengers diverse enough, finding some people who suit you better is never hard. 

 

[adoctor]

In answer to the original question; are you worried etc my answer is an emphatic YES.

If the revenue per suite is reduced due to discounting this will inevitably lead to lower standards and reduced quality.Seabourn are  under pressure from Holland America and ultimate parent Carnival to deliver their short term profits and this tactic may work but it will damage the Brand positioning.

There is already some evidence of lower standards since Seabourn became part of the HAL division of Carnival.

Marketing a luxury brand requires a different set of strategies than this rather simplistic t and ,in my view, dangerous approach. There is real value in the Seabourn brand but  this short term thinking runs the risk of turning it into a commodity.  

[saminina]

What do you expect from a company that has gone from 600 capacity to 1350 to 2650 weekly passengers in a few short years?  This particular agent has little risk involved as his Seabourn offerings are sold out within hours.   Once these passengers are on  ship, they are treated like the person that paid 40% more.  It's too bad they do not behave like the person that paid the higher price.   While plenty of quality/service cuts have been made during this expansion, it's amazing that they have maintained the current level of dignity. 

 

Seabourn is offering the deals to this agent, not the reverse.   It's a clean and quick way to dump inventory.

 

 

[SLSD]

Saminina, It sounds as if you know exactly which agent is referenced (of course not by name as that is against the rules here).  I think it is unfair to assume that all of the passengers working with this agent do not know how to behave.  It is true that I saw more collarless t shirts w/ shorts (and this was a cold weather cruise) than I have seen on the other SB cruises we have taken.  And yes, there were Hawaiian shirts in the MDR at dinner.  I do believe that everyone was trying to follow the dress code---the difference being what elegant casual means to some is not what it means to others.  

 

Just another note, there were enough suites sold through this agent for his passengers to fill a bus.  The gentleman who told us about it (and what he paid) said, "there are a lot of us on this cruise, have you seen the pins?" 

 

It is important to note that these discounted fares (with flight, hotel, dinner, transfers included) are not available on all itineraries--and sometime fairly close to sailing---at other times further out.  The latest one I've seen is a February 2020 itinerary aboard the Quest which includes Antarctica.  

Edited June 19, 2019 by SLSD

[Hoyaheel]

Am I bothered? Not at all. Am I envious because the timing hasn't worked out for us to take one of the discounted cruises (on Seabourn or another line) - absolutely. Sure, we only book what we're comfortable paying. But I personally would love to pay less 😉 

[ed01106]

10 hours ago, rols said:

where we live out in Asia it's very common to be asked "so what did you pay then" for all sorts of things and we've become quite good at demurring and avoiding that question. However anyone who does that in order that they can brag about how clever they are for getting a better deal than you is someone I'd avoid. 

 

 

It is your prerogative to feel the inquire into what you paid is rude and that your question avoidance was done is a polite manner.  However, in all likelihood the other party feels you are being evasive and rude.

 

I think the OP's question is less about how much others paid and more about are you willing to share the ship with people that are wealthy but not ultra-wealthy.   

[Catlover54]

I think some people here are confusing the issue of cruise price discussions per se with the style, place and manner of such discussions. Others are implying talking about price deals in public on a ship at all, regardless of style,  is equivalent  to talking about the greatest new porn movies or worse, e.g.,  rectal abscess surgery details blow by blow, as if talking about cruise financing  issues at all is  a dirty, messy and distasteful thing best kept in a very small hidden closet.

 

I find this odd, because 

there are plenty of discussions on the SB and other luxury forums about pricing and discounts, that few publicly object to. Some people even celebrate on the forum when they get a good deal, and share the info with others so they can also avail themselves of the benefits.

I am also big on  public semi-eavesdropping when I travel, especially when I travel alone, and I have lost count of how many times I have also heard luxury travelers on a cruise  at the next table or next bus seat jovially talk about cruise deals, frequent flyer mile scores, hotel point deals, and other strategies to maximize value received per dollar paid. Many Americans ( especially from big cities on the east coast), certain other cultures, and people who had to learn the value of a dollar early in life, seem more likely to talk openly about costs, deals, discounts, and savings, even if they are multimillionaires, and have less inhibitions.  Many are just happy to share their joy in finding good deals with others, to allow them to learn to have the opportunity to save on their next trip like they did, and I see nothing toxic about it in itself.

Though people engaging in  such discussions can get boring if that is all they have to talk about the whole evening, I would be more concerned if the style of their discussions and behavior on board is loud, boorish, inconsiderate, disrespectful, pushy, and what I refer to as part of the “ selfie-stick” culture, e.g. people who are not apparently disabled but make sure they they get the first seats on the bus with the best views and then rush to do posed selfies of themselves  at the waterfall stop, blocking the view of others the entire stop.

There is perhaps a correlation of boorish behavior with people who travel cheaper, but I doubt the r value is 0.9.

 

So, after all that, where can I get a good deal on a quiet, comfortable luxury Antarctica cruise if  I promise I will not tell anyone on board how little I paid?  🤫

[wripro]

I think the title of this thread should have been "I am bothered by discount TA buying blocks of SB." It should not have been in the form of a question because if the OP were not bothered she would never have even brought it up. jmo.

[ed01106]

37 minutes ago, Catlover54 said:

 or worse, e.g.,  rectal abscess surgery details blow by blow, 

 

And even that can be a difference in expectations and values.  I had one employee who could be politely described as overly inquisitive and oversharing.  In her mind asking detailed and specific question about another persons health was a sign of genuine concern for the person's well being.   And saying "I hope your mom gets better, but you really don't need to share with us the exact details of her chemo side effects"  is just a polite way of saying, "I don't care two hoots about your mom's cancer."        

 

Probably the nicest, caring, thoughtful, generous person I have ever met.  She genuinely cared about the well being of her coworkers and was taken aback by others reluctance to share details (although once it was made clear that her questions were bothersome she would respect the other person's privacy).    But she was offended that others did not care when her mom got sick.  No amount of explaining would sooth her opinion that if you didn't want to hear all the details then it meant you didn't care.  So I asked and I listened.  It was often painful to listen to and often cringe worthy, but the only way to say, "yes, I care" 

[cuddles115]

Am I the only one who feels that the exclusivity and luxury of Seabourn has been thrown under the bus with their selling blocks of staterooms at "bargain prices." Yes Catlover, I'm from the east coast and love a discount and a bargain.  But, I leave that dictum at the gangway of Seabourn and enjoy a luxury ( not bargain bin) cruise.  I would hope that this is not the  beginning of bargain cruising and that the bean counters come to their senses.