I will NEVER buy FTTF Again!!!

[ShakyBeef]

FTTF finally became available for the first leg of my January 2020 Elation BTB out of Port Canaveral, about 200 days out from sailing.  I booked the cruise(s) 400-and-some days out and have been checking for FTTF several times a day, every day, for 200-and-some-odd days, now.  I was starting to worry it wouldn't be made available for my sailing.  Then, the third time checking that day, it suddenly was there in the Shore Excursions.  I grabbed it.  It's still not available for the second leg of the BTB, but that's OK, because for that leg, and forever after (hopefully), DH and I will be Platinum.  So, I have just bought my last FTTF.  Not what you expected when you saw the thread title, huh?  Sorry to disappoint. 

 

But here's something I've been wondering: with the rumours floating around about possible changes to the VIFP program due to the inordinate number of Plats and Diamonds, might those of us about to become Platinum, or having just turned Platinum be bumped back to Gold, just as some Golds were bumped down to Red (my daughters among them) in the last VIFP shake-up, when the Red level was introduced? 

 

It would suck to have this BTB booked for so long, have my cruise docs showing us as Platinum for the second leg (thus knowing I don't need FTTF for that leg), and then having our Platinum status yanked.

Edited June 22, 2019 by ShakyBeef
spelling

[crzndeb]

Just an FYI...if you are doing a B2B, you should show Platinum on both legs. If not, give Carnival a call and tell them to link both sailings. I am turning Diamond on 2nd leg of cruise this year, and both of my legs show Diamond. You should be able to get a refund of that FTTF.

Edited June 22, 2019 by crzndeb

[sanmarcosman]

We went from Gold back to Red. We've been platinum for 2 years now. Never say never is what we say when it comes to Carnival loyalty programs. Congrats on your soon to be Platinum status. Fingers crossed for all of us in the same boat, so to say. 

[shof515]

when the loyalty program changes, other cruise lines is nice enough to grandfather you into the next tier or let you keep the same tier you had before. i dont know why carnival is only one that downgrades people to the lower tier. i was also one of the golden people who were demoted to red and then eventful upgraded back up to gold.

[ShakyBeef]

48 minutes ago, crzndeb said:

Just an FYI...if you are doing a B2B, you should show Platinum on both legs. If not, give Carnival a call and tell them to link both sailings. I am turning Diamond on 2nd leg of cruise this year, and both of my legs show Diamond. You should be able to get a refund of that FTTF.

 

Thanks.  That's what I thought (and hoped!), after reading several reports to that effect here on CC.  But Carnival said it was not the case.  I called my PVP and asked him.  He didn't know and so he transferred me to the VIFP department.  The very nice lady there also didn't know, and looked deeply into all her literature / whatnot, and still couldn't find the answer.  So she put me on hold while she called some higher-up muckety-muck who finally gave the answer that I would not have my Platinum status until the first day of my second leg, despite what others had experienced.  I was disappointed, but accepted it and resolved to buy FTTF one last time. 

 

My sailings are definitely linked as a BTB - I confirmed this with my PVP when I booked.

[Lee Cruiser]

36 minutes ago, shof515 said:

when the loyalty program changes, other cruise lines is nice enough to grandfather you into the next tier or let you keep the same tier you had before. i dont know why carnival is only one that downgrades people to the lower tier. i was also one of the golden people who were demoted to red and then eventful upgraded back up to gold.

Carnival did not downgrade people from Platinum the last time.  They were grandfathered in to the new system.  As a matter of fact, if someone was close to reaching their 10th cruise (which was the old system) they were given a period of 18 months to do so under the old system and would be platinum under the new system.

[ShakyBeef]

4 minutes ago, Lee Cruiser said:

Carnival did not downgrade people from Platinum the last time.  They were grandfathered in to the new system.  As a matter of fact, if someone was close to reaching their 10th cruise (which was the old system) they were given a period of 18 months to do so under the old system and would be platinum under the new system.

 

But they did downgrade existing Golds to the newly created Red.  So, if they were this time around to create a level between  Platinum and Gold, let's call it Reardon Metal, might they not bump some current Platinums down to the new Reardon Metal level?  It is not unreasonable to think it possible , since they've done it before.

[PhillyFan33579]

26 minutes ago, Lee Cruiser said:

Carnival did not downgrade people from Platinum the last time.  They were grandfathered in to the new system.  As a matter of fact, if someone was close to reaching their 10th cruise (which was the old system) they were given a period of 18 months to do so under the old system and would be platinum under the new system.

 

Everything I have heard, and I take everything I hear related to the VIFP program with a grain of salt, is current Platinums, depending on the number of days they have, are going to lose perks if/when they make changes to the VIFP program. The biggest problem with the VIFP program right now is too many people have priority because of the large number of Platinums. This has been mentioned by JH many times. Personally I expect a new level between Platinums and Diamonds and current Platinums to lose perks like Golds lost perks in the past, but until something is officially announced, I won’t worry too much about what perks I may or may not lose as a Platinum.  

Edited June 23, 2019 by PhillyFan33579

[Lee Cruiser]

No doubt anything can happen.  Hopefully they won't downgrade platinum folks, but certainly it could happen.  If I remember correctly in the old system you were gold on your second cruise.  But let's face it, the gold level really isn't that special today.  There are really only two things you get that red doesn't, the generic pin and a free drink coupon that can't be used until the last night.

[Lee Cruiser]

16 minutes ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

 

Everything I have heard, and I take everything I hear related to the VIFP program with a grain of salt, is current Platinums, depending on the number of days they have, are going to lose perks if/when they make changes to the VIFP program. The biggest problem with the VIFP program right now is too many people have priority because of the large number of Platinums. This has been mentioned by JH many times. Personally I expect Platinums to lose perks like Golds lost perks in the past, but until something is officially announced, I won’t worry too much about what perks I may or may not lose as a Platinum.  

The number of platinum has definitely grown.  We are recent to that level ourselves.  Like you, I'm not really stressing over losing perks right now.  What I do question every time I see John mention the number of platinum level folks getting so big, is why they continue to sell FTTF after saying that.

Edited June 23, 2019 by Lee Cruiser

[crzndeb]

1 hour ago, ShakyBeef said:

 

Thanks.  That's what I thought (and hoped!), after reading several reports to that effect here on CC.  But Carnival said it was not the case.  I called my PVP and asked him.  He didn't know and so he transferred me to the VIFP department.  The very nice lady there also didn't know, and looked deeply into all her literature / whatnot, and still couldn't find the answer.  So she put me on hold while she called some higher-up muckety-muck who finally gave the answer that I would not have my Platinum status until the first day of my second leg, despite what others had experienced.  I was disappointed, but accepted it and resolved to buy FTTF one last time. 

 

My sailings are definitely linked as a BTB - I confirmed this with my PVP when I booked.

Jeez, I tell ya...no consistency. Keep an eye on your documents. You might be surprised. I have known others that were able to enjoy level change on a B2B when it occurred on 2nd leg.

[ShakyBeef]

Just now, crzndeb said:

Jeez, I tell ya...no consistency. Keep an eye on your documents. You might be surprised. I have known others that were able to enjoy level change on a B2B when it occurred on 2nd leg.

 

Thanks, I will.  And I agree, sometimes it seems the only thing consistent about Carnival is their inconsistency.

[Organized Chaos]

1 hour ago, Lee Cruiser said:

The number of platinum has definitely grown.  We are recent to that level ourselves.  Like you, I'm not really stressing over losing perks right now.  What I do question every time I see John mention the number of platinum level folks getting so big, is why they continue to sell FTTF after saying that.

 

It's pretty obvious why they sell it. Because they're a for-profit company and it makes them a lot of money. Mind you, I'm not knocking FTTF in any way. We're not Platinum and we do buy FTTF. Even if we were Platinum, I still wouldn't have a problem with FTTF. For many, it's a long ways off to reach Platinum and will take a lot longer than others, so I think it's nice for those folks to be offered a way to enjoy some of the same perks.

 

1 hour ago, ShakyBeef said:

But they did downgrade existing Golds to the newly created Red.  So, if they were this time around to create a level between  Platinum and Gold, let's call it Reardon Metal, might they not bump some current Platinums down to the new Reardon Metal level?  It is not unreasonable to think it possible , since they've done it before.

 

If they're coming to the realization that there are too many Platinums, and it's too hard to keep up with all the priority passengers because of it, it stands to reason that they'd want to do something that reduces the number of Platinums and/or their perks to relieve some of the pressure, so to speak. I know some will say to just get rid of FTTF, but as I eluded to above, I seriously doubt that happens.

 

A couple years ago, I read an article interviewing Carnival's (at that time) Chief Market Officer and the VP of [something] and Partnerships (I forget the first part). That CMO is still with the company, but I read she moved up to a different position. Not sure if that VP of whatever is still the same. Anyway, they spoke about possible changes to the VIFP system being considered. For one, Carnival considers someone a regular cruiser once they hit their 3rd cruise. I guess their data shows that's the point at which most keep coming back. The beginnings of a loyal customer, I guess you could say. So one thing they wanted to do was to find ways to attract the 1st and 2nd timers back to reach that 3rd cruise mark. They didn't specify what, though. I don't think something like that would require any changes to the VIFP levels at all.

 

They're also aware that many people book their cruises well in advance, with one to two years between them. So they wanted to find ways to keep those people interested while they're between cruises. Again, they didn't offer much detail on how they'd go about doing that. Another thing they spoke about were joining in on more partnerships with other companies and their loyalty programs, and looking for ways a customer's loyalty status with Carnival partners could benefit them on Carnival. Not necessarily other cruise lines, or those under the Carnival Corp. umbrella, but whatever companies they partner with. I suppose this could go along with their desire to keep people interested in Carnival while they're between cruises. Interactions with other companies (Carnival partners) having a positive outcome on their next cruise.

 

And one of the last things they talked about, and this is where a lot of P/D's start to grumble, is that they'd like to find ways to earn loyalty other than just giving away free perks and stuff. They don't want someone cruising Carnival just because they give them free stuff. Let's face it, there's plenty of people out there who get mighty upset when Carnival messes with their free stuff. Instead, they'd rather work towards bettering the product and build loyalty based on enjoyment of that product. In my opinion, if they strive to create a good product, we all benefit. Who doesn't want a better product? Giving away free stuff costs them money, so from a purely business standpoint, I can see why they'd like to get away from that. Now I don't think that means they'd ever turn their backs on the higher level VIFP's, or take away all the perks. I just don't see that ever happening.

[vicky3vicky]

I do not think that creating new levels that would cost Carnival more money would be a good idea. I could definitely see Platinum level being reached at 100 days, with those already or about to be Platinum being grandfathered in. And at the same time intoducing Reardom Gold, achievable at 50 days. Reardom Gold would have perks , that, after having been pre-tested on select ships, would give perks that actually would, averaged together, make Carnival even more money. 

For example, everyone attaining Reardom Gold could receive a card entitling them to one free specialty coffee. The "catch" would be that the card could only be used the first 2 days of the cruise. That way, most likely that would bring in more revenue to Carnival, because they would get more people 'hooked" on "needing" more specialty coffees throughout the rest of the cruise. Also, if testing proved that giving a 20% discount on pictures would cause an average of 25% higher sales, then throwing in a 20% off coupon to the Reardom Gold would work to everyones' advantage [it would be wise to give these to higher level VIFP to make them believe they are getting more as well] There could be pre-tested discount coupons for Fun Shop, the candy shop, spa, etc. as well.

I would also throw in one benefit for Reardom Gold that even Platinum and Gold do not get. That would be the Reardom Gold continental breakfast. It would be held one sea day in one of the lounges. Though it would cost a bit more money for the employees to put up, break down, and serve the Reardom Gold invitees, that would be more than made up by the fact that a continental breakfast is way cheaper than any other breakfast options on the ship. [ they would also have to have a raffle there for at least 3 things, like a t-shirt, a cucina de capitan dinner, something else] They could have one big group picture, available for, say, $7.

For Diamond Plus, I would give them a cheesy little crown [with the year on it] that they could either hang on to as a souveneer or trade in for a specialty restaurant meal. 

 

[midcarolina]

I am by no means a marketing expert....but I think Carnival is going to have to do something with the VIFP setup

 

Why? you cannot have a loyalty program that keeps the top tier at the top tier in perpetuity, Because eventually the majority of your customers become top tier.

They are likely to have to try and figure out a way to do some kind of a reset annually , Kinda like some hotel chains reset their points programs....

[Illbcruzn4life]

We have been platinum for years and they can kick us back to the beginning as it doesn't really matter to us.

 

We always cruise with others who aren't platinum so we wait with them and board when they do which is about the only perk that was worth anything to us.

[xDisconnections]

Congrats on hitting Platinum, @ShakyBeef

Edited June 23, 2019 by xDisconnections

[PhillyFan33579]

1 hour ago, midcarolina said:

I am by no means a marketing expert....but I think Carnival is going to have to do something with the VIFP setup

 

Why? you cannot have a loyalty program that keeps the top tier at the top tier in perpetuity, Because eventually the majority of your customers become top tier.

They are likely to have to try and figure out a way to do some kind of a reset annually , Kinda like some hotel chains reset their points programs....

 

I believe that is the major challenge facing Carnival. Most people agree Carnival has too many Platinums right now. Like many people have stated on this site, when too many people have priority status, no one really has priority. You also have to consider the ability to continue selling FTTF, which generates income for Carnival with minimal operating costs.

 

Just my opinion, but I think Carnival has to significantly raise the number of days required to reach Platinum or create a new level above Platinum that you have to reach before getting all the perks currently associated with being Platinum. For a change like this to be successful, it has to apply to all passengers with no grandfathering passengers who are already Platinum. If you grandfather everyone who is already Platinum, the change would not address the current issue that there are too many Platinums. 

[ShakyBeef]

7 hours ago, vicky3vicky said:

I do not think that creating new levels that would cost Carnival more money would be a good idea. I could definitely see Platinum level being reached at 100 days, with those already or about to be Platinum being grandfathered in. And at the same time intoducing Reardom Gold, achievable at 50 days. Reardom Gold would have perks , that, after having been pre-tested on select ships, would give perks that actually would, averaged together, make Carnival even more money. 

For example, everyone attaining Reardom Gold could receive a card entitling them to one free specialty coffee. The "catch" would be that the card could only be used the first 2 days of the cruise. That way, most likely that would bring in more revenue to Carnival, because they would get more people 'hooked" on "needing" more specialty coffees throughout the rest of the cruise. Also, if testing proved that giving a 20% discount on pictures would cause an average of 25% higher sales, then throwing in a 20% off coupon to the Reardom Gold would work to everyones' advantage [it would be wise to give these to higher level VIFP to make them believe they are getting more as well] There could be pre-tested discount coupons for Fun Shop, the candy shop, spa, etc. as well.

I would also throw in one benefit for Reardom Gold that even Platinum and Gold do not get. That would be the Reardom Gold continental breakfast. It would be held one sea day in one of the lounges. Though it would cost a bit more money for the employees to put up, break down, and serve the Reardom Gold invitees, that would be more than made up by the fact that a continental breakfast is way cheaper than any other breakfast options on the ship. [ they would also have to have a raffle there for at least 3 things, like a t-shirt, a cucina de capitan dinner, something else] They could have one big group picture, available for, say, $7.

For Diamond Plus, I would give them a cheesy little crown [with the year on it] that they could either hang on to as a souveneer or trade in for a specialty restaurant meal. 

 

 

Wow, you've really put some thought into this!😊  They might end up doing some of this.

 

BTW, the hypothetical "Reardon Metal" level was a slightly obscure reference to one of my favourite books, Atlas Shrugged.  I was having trouble coming up with a precious metal (so as not to mess with their Red-and-Blue-and-Precious-Metals theme) between the value of gold and platinum.  So I chose this fictitious metal as a kind of joke.  But I think I see what you did there with Reardom Gold - at the "rear" end of Gold, right?

[Joebucks]

8 hours ago, midcarolina said:

I am by no means a marketing expert....but I think Carnival is going to have to do something with the VIFP setup

 

Why? you cannot have a loyalty program that keeps the top tier at the top tier in perpetuity, Because eventually the majority of your customers become top tier.

They are likely to have to try and figure out a way to do some kind of a reset annually , Kinda like some hotel chains reset their points programs....

 

I really disagree there about the annual reset. Most people do not sail that much a year. The loyalty program would become even more of a turnoff. The thing about perpetuity is that those clients unfortunately pass away eventually. Especially with more of your top tier holders being up there in age. But if that base is growing unevenly, changes have to be made.

 

The smart thing to do is to increase the levels for the top tiers like Platinum, and test the waters with other perks for mid-tier. There should be something between Gold and Platinum.

[PhillyFan33579]

10 minutes ago, Joebucks said:

 But if that base is growing unevenly, changes have to be made.

 

The smart thing to do is to increase the levels for the top tiers like Platinum, and test the waters with other perks for mid-tier. There should be something between Gold and Platinum.

 

Your first point hits the nail on the head. The number of Platinums is growing way too fast. You will get a lot of opinions and thoughts on what needs to change with the current VIFP program, but most people will agree the significant number of Platinums is the number one problem with the current VIFP program.

 

This is just my opinion, but I don’t see the need for another level between Gold and Platinum.  By the time a person reaches Gold, they have already shown some degree of loyalty to Carnival. 

 

The biggest challenge for Carnival, and I have heard and read this countless times, is how to get the first or second time cruiser on Carnival to continue booking cruises on Carnival in the future. I know one way they approach this issue is to offer pretty appealing deals to Red level passengers. My sister who is Red, gets significantly better cruise offers via email, than my wife and I get as Platinums. 

 

. 

[shof515]

9 hours ago, vicky3vicky said:

 Also, if testing proved that giving a 20% discount on pictures would cause an average of 25% higher sales, then throwing in a 20% off coupon to the Reardom Gold would work to everyones' advantage [it would be wise to give these to higher level VIFP to make them believe they are getting more as well] There could be pre-tested discount coupons for Fun Shop, the candy shop, spa, etc. as well.

 

 

this is what Norwegian does, depending on your level you get like 5/10/15% off of pictures, gift shop purchase and pictures. i kinda like that.

[quickrate]

11 hours ago, crzndeb said:

Jeez, I tell ya...no consistency. Keep an eye on your documents. You might be surprised. I have known others that were able to enjoy level change on a B2B when it occurred on 2nd leg.

My husband turned Diamond on our B2B Vista- last med, TA, and he had diamond status on both legs but did not actually turn Diamond till second leg.

Pat

[xDisconnections]

8 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

 

I believe that is the major challenge facing Carnival. Most people agree Carnival has too many Platinums right now.

If you think Carnival Platinum has an overcrowding situation, you should see the overcrowding situation right now with Elite Status on Princess. It takes a minimum of 72 hours to receive your laundry nowadays and the most traveled passenger is never shy of 2,000 days. On many cruises, more than 75% of the passengers are Elite.

[xDisconnections]

2 hours ago, Joebucks said:

 

I really disagree there about the annual reset. Most people do not sail that much a year. The loyalty program would become even more of a turnoff. The thing about perpetuity is that those clients unfortunately pass away eventually. Especially with more of your top tier holders being up there in age. But if that base is growing unevenly, changes have to be made.

 

The smart thing to do is to increase the levels for the top tiers like Platinum, and test the waters with other perks for mid-tier. There should be something between Gold and Platinum.

I'm a big fan of annual re-qualification with a milestone target to hit that will provide lifetime status. It has worked well for me in the former Starwood program and kept my benefits from being devalued by kettles.