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CruiseRonJulie

Stop removing tips

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7 hours ago, silversneakers said:

I think tips should be automatic. If you have an issue or reason why you do not want to pay tips,  you should be required to go to guest services on the ship and explain what the problem is that created your decision.  I'm sure they would appreciate knowing what transpired so that they can correct the issue immediately and remedy the situation for the next guests boarding the ship.

So you complain and say remove the tips - then what??

They try to correct and you say not good enough...Back to square one.

I believe Carnival doesn't care if you remove the gratuities -and most people out who cruise don't care to think of this. 

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On 6/25/2019 at 4:57 PM, cruisegus said:

Ever go to a restaurant in the US with a big party, say 10+ and had a gratuity automatically added to your bill at 18 to 20%?

Even if you ask for the manager, do you think they would let you remove it?  Not hardly.  Should be the same on a cruise ship.

 

Though I am also a proponent that we as a society in the USA, quit playing his TIP game, along with all the other nickle and dime service charges, resort fees, technology fee, etc and take a page from Europeans and, only have one price, the bottom line with no other charges allowed.  Will this raise prices or at least our perception of them, yes but your actual cost will still be the same and be up front.

 

Unfortunately, this isn't possible in the US. We could reduce some of the hidden fees for sure, but can't follow Europe on a flat price.  Mostly because of the internet. When I sell an item, taxes are not just based on the State the buyer is in, but the county. It's absurd. So the price is different across the board. 

 

Of course, with something like a cruise and even hotels, inclusive pricing should be mandated because it's not dynamic. People are rightfully fed up with all the hidden costs. 

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I can't think of a time on a cruise, vacation, or just daily living that I would not treat someone the way I want to be treated. Whenever this type of topic presents itself,  I instantly recall a time that I had an encounter with one of our waitstaff on a cruise that, probably a lot of people would normally be highly offended by and not say anything to the person,  but remove tips and complain to their manager about it.  I would encourage others to think before they act on that.  Individuals don't go into the service industry with the goal of making people miserable. They are usually there to make a living and even provide for family members back home. Every person has a horrible day, and when we do we all appreciate some grace for our less than desirable behavior on those days. Instead of taking away, try giving more. It might be the therapist in me,  but I could tell by the way this woman was behaving that she was having an extremely difficult time keeping herself together,  let alone tending to everyone else's needs. With that said,  I always bring "thank you" cards on cruise vacations to write notes of appreciation and provide a trinket from the islands, representing our time spent with that person (i.e. waitstaff, room attendant, repeat bar server, etc.) as a memory of our appreciation for their service. Once the dinner was over that evening and we left, I decided to write my note of appreciation to this woman.  I told her that I know every person has an off day and that it must be difficult to be far away from family for so long,  and expected to be happy and cheerful to so many people when you're hurting on the inside.  I mentioned how I appreciated her hardwork and dedication to serve so many and work such long hours. I told her that I wanted her to know that we see her and we hope that whatever she may be feeling that we see value in her and appreciate all she does to help make the cruisers vacation special. I included a $100 dollar bill in the card, in addition to a little flower bracelet my daughter picked out for her.  I took that sealed card to guest services and requested that they please give it to her as soon as possible.  You would not believe the response I received from her.  We no sooner entered the dining room 2 nights later (due to missing the previous night being on the island) and this woman comes up to me and asks if she can hug me.  I happily obliged and this poor woman just sobbed as she hugged me, profusely thanking me for what I had done and how much that meant to her. She didn't understand how I knew she wasn't ok but was beyond grateful. Later the Maitre d asked if all was ok being that he saw all this go down. I replied, it couldn't be better. At the end of our cruise we received a thank you note from her and her heartfelt response. Needless to say it was an end to a perfect vacation. 

Lesson here is that, it's better to put yourself in others shoes and lose the entitlement attitude, than to make sure each person pays for their less-than-stellar attitudes. Every person makes mistakes. Show kindness to others and be giving, it is so much more rewarding than the alternative. 🙂

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7 hours ago, Kreader said:

Just wanted to say I have removed tips in the past when cabin,dining service was extremely poor.  And usually this is after I have told the guest services desk,and nothing is improved.  Tips should be given for ok,or good service!

You're a brave soul posting that on Cruise Critic.

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15 minutes ago, xDisconnections said:

You're a brave soul posting that on Cruise Critic.

I would always want the option of removing or adjusting tips for poor service. Forty plus cruises and one time removed tips from waitstaff.

 

DW has unusual food allergies and we go over them very carefully with waitstaff and she carefully orders dinner for the next night each day.

 

This waitstaff made error after error. One of her triggers is green vegetables. She order chicken and carefully reminds them no spinach. The next night her entre comes to the table with the chicken covered in spinach, We point this out to the headwaiter and all he does is shrug his shoulders as not my fault even though he was the one who put it in front of her.  That was inexcusable/

 

We called over MD who profusely apologized and he could not do enough for us. We had dinner the next night on lido and they sent us a rather special dinner and sent a bottle of wine and cheese plate to our cabin.

 

This was the only time we removed waitstaff tips. Normally hand out cash last night as deserved. Also mentioned the waiter very prominently in our comment survey.

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I've always thought the tip was just an expense added to the cost of the trip so as far as we're concerned it is never removed unless we're given truly horrendous service (will never happen).  We tip extra throughout the cruise (bartenders, drink servers and room service folks) and if we're happy with our cabin steward we tip extra at the end.  We also tip our MDR team extra on the last night (again, assuming we receive the same stellar service as usual).  Bottom line...the base tip is never adjusted downward.

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I honestly never know why someone would worry about someone else tips.

"WAY BACK WHEN" when they started doing it for  "our" convenience, I bought into it, knowing I could adjust it.  We were getting daily room service and a complete served 8 course or less meal, but a waiter and an assistant waiter.

But suddenly I noticed they were no longer doing it for my convenience.   And service was being cut back,   And then meals were either being swapped out for self serve, or even alternative dining where we where suddenly require to tip again.

And then suddenly, the choice of sit down service was eliminated in some instances.  And then the lies began .  People in the supper club/steakhouse were suddenly telling "us" the tip was not included in the fee.  The once include tip at the captains table suddenly wasn't.

In any case, I took that "for my convenience" back into my control.   I tip as I choose.   And I NEVER worry about what others tip.  It's none of my business.

Oh, and when they started adding tips to beverage charges, we were told how to adjust or even remove them.  Or even add to them, knowing one method went to the pool, and another method went to the actual server.

I still do that.   And anyone can.   Simply cross out the added tip, and replace with your hand written one and re-total.   You will find the retail charge on your sail and sign account.

REMEMBER:  NO ONE CAN FORCE YOU TO TIP

Edited by Kitsunegari

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On 6/25/2019 at 1:02 PM, xDisconnections said:

I'm willing to bet that a good amount of people on Cruise Critic who complain about the tip removers the most are in fact the ones secretly removing their tips on the last night of the cruise. They just need to protect their online imagine 🙂

Nice one 😉

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On 6/25/2019 at 10:06 AM, CruiseRonJulie said:

I think it is time for Carnival to make it near impossible to remove the gratuities. 

If something is mandatory, then it is not, by definition, a gratuity. They should call it a service charge or something, if they make it impossible to remove. 

 

I have not read the seven pages of replies; my apologies if this is redundant. 

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We have never had to remove tips for lack of service, because we never had service that was below the advertised services that CCL stated they would provide during a cruise.  On most of our cruises, as great service is provided we give additional cash tips to the people that provided us the outstanding service.  Of our 17 cruises I can only remember one that we did not give additional tips, we just gave the amount added to our sail-n-sign card. 

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7 hours ago, StillPooh said:

If something is mandatory, then it is not, by definition, a gratuity. They should call it a service charge or something, if they make it impossible to remove. 

 

I have not read the seven pages of replies; my apologies if this is redundant. 

If it makes you feel better, consider it so....

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Of all the interests in my life, cruising has the largest percentage of busy bodies who fret over every aspect.

 

It's a cruise, mind your business and enjoy your vacation.  The same internet warriors aren't analyzing pay and crusading for tips for the servers at their local steak house.  

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59 minutes ago, hotsauce126 said:

 

Yes? I generally don't tip extra in the steakhouse under the assumption that the tip is included

Carnival has been less than clear on what is and what is not included on several things, the Steakhouse being one of them. We treat the charge as the cost of the meal and tip extra if we think service is good.  My point of asking the question is do what you think is appropriate, not what others think.  

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On 6/29/2019 at 7:39 AM, Kitsunegari said:

I honestly never know why someone would worry about someone else tips.

"WAY BACK WHEN" when they started doing it for  "our" convenience, I bought into it, knowing I could adjust it.  We were getting daily room service and a complete served 8 course or less meal, but a waiter and an assistant waiter.

But suddenly I noticed they were no longer doing it for my convenience.   And service was being cut back,   And then meals were either being swapped out for self serve, or even alternative dining where we where suddenly require to tip again.

And then suddenly, the choice of sit down service was eliminated in some instances.  And then the lies began .  People in the supper club/steakhouse were suddenly telling "us" the tip was not included in the fee.  The once include tip at the captains table suddenly wasn't.

In any case, I took that "for my convenience" back into my control.   I tip as I choose.   And I NEVER worry about what others tip.  It's none of my business.

Oh, and when they started adding tips to beverage charges, we were told how to adjust or even remove them.  Or even add to them, knowing one method went to the pool, and another method went to the actual server.

I still do that.   And anyone can.   Simply cross out the added tip, and replace with your hand written one and re-total.   You will find the retail charge on your sail and sign account.

REMEMBER:  NO ONE CAN FORCE YOU TO TIP

Did someone suggest that anybody is forced to add a tip?  I love how people rationalize not following suggested Commonly accepted practices. The use of caps is way more convincing tho....

 

A question regarding your rationalizing removing tips, can you describe the cut backs in service regarding meals?   When did the mdr go to self service?

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3 hours ago, hotsauce126 said:

 

Since when is the tip not included in the steakhouse?

I just noticed that myself a week or so ago.  Carnival sure snuck that one in, didn't they? 

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

Does it make a difference?

Of course it makes a difference! The fact that Carnival went from gratuities included to gratuities not included means the meal is now $44.84 pp if you want to add an 18% gratuity. 

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2 minutes ago, fyree39 said:

I just noticed that myself a week or so ago.  Carnival sure snuck that one in, didn't they? 

Of course it makes a difference! The fact that Carnival went from gratuities included to gratuities not included means the meal is now $44.84 pp if you want to add an 18% gratuity. 

Then pay what you want, you are missing the point

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24 minutes ago, LMaxwell said:

 

 

What happens if you make a charge mandatory and then the service is poor?  

 

And what is the problem lately with cash everywhere you go?  Grocery store, gas stations, etc.  They seem to not like receiving cash. 

Do you think that if the tip were included the service would decline noticeably?

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Just now, jimbo5544 said:

Do you think that if the tip were included the service would decline noticeably?

 

Interesting question; let me *attempt* to answer without talking past you or not addressing your question. 

 

In many ways the tip is already included; it is automatic nothing further for the guest to do.  A pre-determined amount is added to your final bill.  I think there is an expectation by guests for certain level of service to accompany those charges.  Now, are some people going to just be cheap and remove charges to save money, yes.  Are some going to remove it due to inadequate level of service?  Yes as well.  I think making a charge mandatory without any leverage by the guest makes it easier/safer for crew to provide lower levels of service.  The weakest link in the chain will still be compensated for bare minimum effort.  I think it is unfair to guests not to give them a remedy in this situation.  

 

As far as I am concerned not ever having to visit GS on a cruise is a success.  If you do have to visit, try to get a problem corrected first.  But after that, how much time on vacation is someone supposed to spend dealing with guest services over subpar services?  The universal language is $$$.   When I get poor service I tip less than I do for great service.  

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Having been a waitress many times in my life it is possible to remove a gratuity for a large party as I have seen it done. No one can force you to pay a tip/gratuity as it is a tip/gratuity at the discretion of the guest/client. If you want to have a service fee/charge then that is something totally different. Tips have become so expected that even carry out food joints have jars for the person that throws your food in a bag. I have to admit there has been a decline in the service in the last 10-15 years due to Carnival's cut backs in staffing. The whole service the cabin in the AM or PM thing and more cabins per steward and more tables for the servers at dinner. I am not Platinum but I have sailed mostly Carnival since 1999 and I myself had what I would call really bad service on the Paradise a few years ago. It was BAD, the cabin steward complained about how many cabins he had, the bar waiters by the pool were non existent and the one just plain didn't bring a drink and then told my friend oh we don't have that which of course they did as my friend went to the bar and got it. The servers were overwhelmed and the food was lukewarm at best by the time we got it. Not the usual stellar service I was used to. Both my friend and I having been in food service found it difficult to remove tips so we didn't but I would not want to go to guest services and be told I could not or my money would be returned in a month or so. ITS A TIP! A tip is for exceptional service given at the discretion of the person receiving the service not to pay help so the business owner doesn't have to. Once you have declared they will get a tip no matter what well you have opened the door for less than.  

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1 minute ago, LMaxwell said:

 

Interesting question; let me *attempt* to answer without talking past you or not addressing your question. 

 

In many ways the tip is already included; it is automatic nothing further for the guest to do.  A pre-determined amount is added to your final bill.  I think there is an expectation by guests for certain level of service to accompany those charges.  Now, are some people going to just be cheap and remove charges to save money, yes.  Are some going to remove it due to inadequate level of service?  Yes as well.  I think making a charge mandatory without any leverage by the guest makes it easier/safer for crew to provide lower levels of service.  The weakest link in the chain will still be compensated for bare minimum effort.  I think it is unfair to guests not to give them a remedy in this situation.  

 

As far as I am concerned not ever having to visit GS on a cruise is a success.  If you do have to visit, try to get a problem corrected first.  But after that, how much time on vacation is someone supposed to spend dealing with guest services over subpar services?  The universal language is $$$.   When I get poor service I tip less than I do for great service.  

LOL, do I attempt to talk past you?  It would not even enter my mind to do so.  I understand the rationale, and the need to have recourse om options when those levels of performance are not met.  Clearly, there is a disconnect somewhere in the “system”.  When the number of guests removing tips is at such a level that it is discussed on so many channels.  Personally, I would love to see it mandated that clients much follow protocol during the cruise to find ways to resolve the issue through (your most hated stop) GS and then submit a written request to Carnival post cruise.  

 

I can only remember one instance of poor service that caused us to react in the manner you describe.  On the other hand, we have had many instances where we thought the service was significantly above and beyond.  I do not think the answer is to include tips into the cost of the cruise, but when we have sailed on cruises that do so, I can tell you that the service was exemplary.  

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21 hours ago, JMAE said:

We have never had to remove tips for lack of service, because we never had service that was below the advertised services that CCL stated they would provide during a cruise.  On most of our cruises, as great service is provided we give additional cash tips to the people that provided us the outstanding service.  Of our 17 cruises I can only remember one that we did not give additional tips, we just gave the amount added to our sail-n-sign card. 

 

Bingo.  We are of the same opinion.

 

Quite frankly, the meaning of service is very different between people.  I have seen those that remove tips for things that I thought were way beyond reasonable expectations for service on a ship.  I mean how much can you expect

 

For a room steward, keep my room clean twice a day in a timely manner and a kind hello in the hallways is what I expect (I mean how much more should these people do for your $5 a day)

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On ‎6‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 10:10 AM, jbethel11 said:

Suppose my argument is, "I just didn't like the service given to me." What would be your counter? Following, as this will get heated. 

I would tell you to be more specific.  You may as well say, "I just don't feel like tipping."  There are so many parts to the onboard experience that I find it hard to believe that ALL of them were sub-par. 

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3 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Then pay what you want, you are missing the point

I guess I am.  What's the point? I want tips to be included in the cost of the steakhouse and Chef's Table.  Is that too hard to ask?

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The service was so good, I tipped the stateroom steward and the MDR waiter again on the ship, even though I pre-tipped when I booked.

I feel like I should have tipped more..

Next time.

 

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12 hours ago, ray98 said:

Of all the interests in my life, cruising has the largest percentage of busy bodies who fret over every aspect.

 

It's a cruise, mind your business and enjoy your vacation.  The same internet warriors aren't analyzing pay and crusading for tips for the servers at their local steak house.  

 

Why are you so bothered by what might bother someone else?  Mind your own business.  

(I'm kind of kidding but don't know the correct emoji for that :)

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