The Celebrity Beyond & Beyond: If You Were CEO, What Would You Do?

[vtcruising]

32 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

Just my opinion, but I think that part of the extra space provided by lengthening the Apex will be used to add more space to the Retreat areas and Luminae. The same will probably be true going forward with the last 3 E class ships.  As for better service in Luminae and the Retreat, it couldn’t have been any better on our Edge TA in April. Ok, maybe a little better if the Retreat had a real bar. 😁

Btw, “Go Bests” and other suite perks do not “cost” X anything. They are factored into those premium prices of the suites. 😉

Is the Apex going to be longer? I haven't found that anywhere - the dimensions are the same as the Edge on all the sites, the cabins they are selling are the same as the Edge and in the press releases they have said that the Apex and Edge are the same and the last three are longer (of course, I don't believe everything I read! 😉). I would be happy if it were longer, just haven't seen it in writing anywhere (and can't see the difference in the pictures we have so far). I hope you are right!  🙂

 

We generally had good service too, but some people have complained about Luminae feeling crowded and loud (happened to us a couple of times) and that the concierge service didn't seem as personal as other ships (I have to agree with that - sometimes it felt as if there were just too many people to keep happy, especially with 30 upper suites and 146 sky suites and only one concierge there much of the time).

 

I realize that the suite costs are figured in, but thought that selling 3 verandas (who would likely buy some of the perks), instead of 2 suites, might somewhat equalize out when you took out the actual costs of the suite perks. I also doubt that they are selling all of those sky suites, and if they do, they are getting less for them if they are moving people up - I imagine the traditional regular verandas would sell out. Just my musings - I haven't crunched the numbers....I just think they overshot a bit with 176 suites on a ship that size. 🙂

Edited July 3, 2019 by vtcruising

[C-Dragons]

19 minutes ago, vtcruising said:

Is the Apex going to be longer? I haven't found that anywhere - the dimensions are the same as the Edge on all the sites, the cabins they are selling are the same as the Edge and in the press releases they have said that the Apex and Edge are the same and the last three are longer (of course, I don't believe everything I read! 😉). I would be happy if it were longer, just haven't seen it in writing anywhere (and can't see the difference in the pictures we have so far). I hope you are right!  🙂

 

We generally had good service too, but some people have complained about Luminae feeling crowded and loud (happened to us a couple of times) and that the concierge service didn't seem as personal as other ships (I have to agree with that - sometimes it felt as if there were just too many people to keep happy, especially with 30 upper suites and 146 sky suites and only one concierge there much of the time).

 

I realize that the suite costs are figured in, but thought that selling 3 verandas (who would likely buy some of the perks), instead of 2 suites, might somewhat equalize out when you took out the actual costs of the suite perks. I also doubt that they are selling all of those sky suites, and if they do, they are getting less for them if they are moving people up - I imagine the traditional regular verandas would sell out. Just my musings - I haven't crunched the numbers....I just think they overshot a bit with 176 suites on a ship that size. 🙂

We heard from Capt. Costas that the Apex would be lengthened by 20 meters. I don't think there will be an increase in the number of cabins, just public space.

[vtcruising]

41 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

We heard from Capt. Costas that the Apex would be lengthened by 20 meters. I don't think there will be an increase in the number of cabins, just public space.

Interesting, that is the length that the other 3 ships are being lengthened (20 m or 66 ft). Maybe they changed their minds and will surprise us...

 

Two articles from Sea and Marine (translated):

 

5/20/19

 

"The K34 (Apex) is the sistership of the Celebrity Edge (J34), a 306 meter long and 39 meter wide vessel, 129,500 GT gauge and 1467 cabins delivered last October. It will be completed in March 2020.

 

 

Three other ships will complete this class, with the 5th Edge order confirmed last month at Chantiers de l'Atlantique. These future ships will nevertheless be larger than their two eldest, thanks to the addition of an additional section. The length will be increased to 327 meters and the gauge to 140,600 GT. As for the number of cabins, which is not yet official, it should turn around 1600. The L34, the first of these "Edge Jumbo", will be delivered in 2021, the next M34 in 2022 and the N34 in 2024."

 

 

1/24/19

"According to our information, the future ships of this class, from the third will be larger. They should, learned Sea and Marine, integrate an additional section and, thus, be more than twenty meters long. This will increase their capacity through the addition of additional cabins. But it should also be an opportunity to make them more environmentally virtuous. For the record, the Celebrity Edge currently works on diesel or heavy fuel oil, the ship is equipped with scrubbers to treat its emissions of sulfur oxides (SOx) and catalytic converters for discharges nitrogen oxides (NOx). The engineers of the shipyards have, moreover, made it possible thanks to various systems and a new hull more hydrodynamic,

The idea is now, according to our information, to equip the future Edge with generators running on liquefied natural gas. For this project, it is not a question of using LNG for propulsion, and thus the navigation phases, but to supply the ships when they are docked, which would considerably limit pollutant emissions in the ports. , in particular the releases of fine particles and CO2. The additional section that would be added to the future L34, M34 and O34 would in particular make it possible to integrate, in addition to diesel and fuel oil bunkers, an LNG storage tank."

Edited July 3, 2019 by vtcruising

[4774Papa]

I would like to see lower basic prices (without any promos).

[C-Dragons]

2 hours ago, vtcruising said:

Interesting, that is the length that the other 3 ships are being lengthened (20 m or 66 ft). Maybe they changed their minds and will surprise us...

 

Two articles from Sea and Marine (translated):

 

5/20/19

 

"The K34 (Apex) is the sistership of the Celebrity Edge (J34), a 306 meter long and 39 meter wide vessel, 129,500 GT gauge and 1467 cabins delivered last October. It will be completed in March 2020.

All I know is what we were told. Perhaps he misspoke, or we misunderstood.

Edited July 3, 2019 by C-Dragons

[vtcruising]

1 hour ago, C-Dragons said:

All I know is what we were told. Perhaps he misspoke, or we misunderstood.

Or maybe he knows more than the press....🙂

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, vtcruising said:

Or maybe he knows more than the press....🙂

We talked about many things with Capt. Costas, including Beyond.

I'm going to throw my Dh under the bus 😁 as he was the one who said the Capt was referring to Apex being lengthened 20 meters. 😉

[Texed]

12 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

We talked about many things with Capt. Costas, including Beyond.

I'm going to throw my Dh under the bus 😁

 

Poor guy!  😢

[C-Dragons]

3 hours ago, Texed said:

 

Poor guy!  😢

Full disclosure: no Dh was actually harmed in this matter. 

And no need to worry Ed, I'll be sure to make it up to him... 😎

Edited July 4, 2019 by C-Dragons

[vtcruising]

3 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

We talked about many things with Capt. Costas, including Beyond.

I'm going to throw my Dh under the bus 😁 as he was the one who said the Capt was referring to Apex being lengthened 20 meters. 😉

Ouch! Great idea! I'm going to start blaming everything on my DH - he will never know.... until we cruise with one of you! 🙂

Edited July 4, 2019 by vtcruising

[C-Dragons]

7 minutes ago, vtcruising said:

Ouch! Great idea! I'm going to start blaming everything on my DH - he will never know.... until we cruise with one of you! 🙂

Seriously, in this instance, he did say it. 

 

 

[Oville]

12 minutes ago, C-Dragons said:

Seriously, in this instance, he did say it. 

 

 

Very funny.

[Texed]

2 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

Full disclosure: no Dh was actually harmed in this matter. 

And no need to worry Ed, I'll be sure to make it up to him... 😎

 

Better than Mastercard, priceless.  😁

[vtcruising]

10 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

Seriously, in this instance, he did say it. 

 

 

I believe it. Have had the same thing happen....🙂

[TeeRick]

22 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

Just my opinion, but I think that part of the extra space provided by lengthening the Apex will be used to add more space to the Retreat areas and Luminae. The same will probably be true going forward with the last 3 E class ships.  As for better service in Luminae and the Retreat, it couldn’t have been any better on our Edge TA in April. Ok, maybe a little better if the Retreat had a real bar. 😁

Btw, “Go Bests” and other suite perks do not “cost” X anything. They are factored into those premium prices of the suites. 😉

I am not sure they would dramatically increase the cost for the 3 E-Class jumbo's if they were going to just add square footage to suite public areas which are front of the ship.  Much more likely to add a section mid-ship for more cabins and more suites.  A revenue producing increase in space is my guess.  They did this on S-Class with the last build (Reflection) and added more suites.  

[Ox Fan Cruiser]

I'd like either one MDR with keeping the same wait staff or keep 4 MDR and alternate rooms and the wait staff follows you.

I would also add self service laundry rooms.  I bet they would sell more B2Bs this way.

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by Ox Fan Cruiser

[C-Dragons]

17 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

I am not sure they would dramatically increase the cost for the 3 E-Class jumbo's if they were going to just add square footage to suite public areas which are front of the ship.  Much more likely to add a section mid-ship for more cabins and more suites.  A revenue producing increase in space is my guess.  They did this on S-Class with the last build (Reflection) and added more suites.  

Oh I agree with you that there will be more suites and other cabins added to Beyond and her sisters, that has already been confirmed by the stats published by X. But it will be necessary, with the addition of more suites, to increase the Retreat areas and Luminae to accommodate more guests. I think that was apparent on the Edge TA, as those spaces were full to capacity on sea days.

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

2 hours ago, Ox Fan Cruiser said:

 

I would also add self service laundry rooms.  I bet they would sell more B2Bs this way.

 

 

I disagree.  I don't go on cruises to do laundry.  I do enough of that at home.  Perfectly happy to let someone else handle it!  And I've cruised for as long as a month and survived just fine.

[Denny01]

2 hours ago, Ox Fan Cruiser said:

I'd like either one MDR with keeping the same wait staff or keep 4 MDR and alternate rooms and the wait staff follows you.

I would also add self service laundry rooms.  I bet they would sell more B2Bs this way.

 

Ox Fan, you already have this on Edge. You can book one of the 4 MDR’s and stay there for the entire cruise at the same table with the same wait staff. When you book Early or Late set dining, you pick (at least we did) which MDR you wanted. We then switched each day to another MDR and enjoyed the mix. 

 

Each of the 4 MDR’s has the same standard menu with a few entrees+ added that reflect that MDR’s venue. 

 

So with the 4 MDR’s you get what you want and those who want a change get theirs. Nice.

 

Den

[Mynki]

3 hours ago, Ox Fan Cruiser said:

 

I would also add self service laundry rooms.  I bet they would sell more B2Bs this way.

 

 

I have no feelings about self service laundry either way as we're Elite. But I'd be surprised if anyone would book a B2B based on laundry being readily available even though it isn't cheap onboard. 

[Ox Fan Cruiser]

17 hours ago, Denny01 said:

Ox Fan, you already have this on Edge. You can book one of the 4 MDR’s and stay there for the entire cruise at the same table with the same wait staff. When you book Early or Late set dining, you pick (at least we did) which MDR you wanted. We then switched each day to another MDR and enjoyed the mix. 

 

Each of the 4 MDR’s has the same standard menu with a few entrees+ added that reflect that MDR’s venue. 

 

So with the 4 MDR’s you get what you want and those who want a change get theirs. Nice.

 

Den

I was talking about if you want to use all 4 MDRs. It would be nice if you want the same wait staff and still use all 4. I believe Disney has this available.

 

[TeeRick]

22 hours ago, C-Dragons said:

Oh I agree with you that there will be more suites and other cabins added to Beyond and her sisters, that has already been confirmed by the stats published by X. But it will be necessary, with the addition of more suites, to increase the Retreat areas and Luminae to accommodate more guests. I think that was apparent on the Edge TA, as those spaces were full to capacity on sea days.

Agree but not sure if that will be possible if they just add a section mid - ship.  I guess they could move some things around on a newly designed build. Time will tell.  I am one of those that hopes they redesign the Luminae area a bit on future E-Class ships to make it a bit more quiet and intimate.  And add a bit more shade in the Retreat.  And of course a sit-down bar in the Retreat Lounge which is supposed to already be happening.

[cruisefam38]

vtcruising, I used your estimates of the 8% increase in size (140,000 tons) to guide my search for existing comparably-sized cruise ships to better understand how much larger, and therefore how many more cabins and passengers could be expected for the proposed Edge class ships.  My answers to the survey will be as a Celebrity CEO charged with protecting the brand, which means maintaining product quality while attempting to maintain current passengers and attracting new costumers.  A tall order.

 

I found this table on Wikipedia under "world's largest cruise ships".   The last three columns are for "Number of Cabins" , "Double Occupancy", and "Maximum Capacity".  Please note than four of the ships in this approximate size range are Royal Caribbean, and might therefore represent target occupancy loads (and possible revenue generation) for the future Celebrity builds. 

Last autumn we cruised on the Silhouette, in March on the Reflection, and we were on the June 22 Equinox Caribbean cruise that just completed; all three cruises were taken in suite class.   I like that vtcruising offered this questionnaire for gathering data.

 

 

[vtcruising]

Thanks to  all who took the poll. Some of the results were interesting and some a bit surprising (to me anyway).

 

Here are some results:

114 total people participated

 

Question 1)  Size of last 3 ships

45%  wanted to keep next 3 Edge Class ships the same size as the Edge and Apex

26%  agreed with present plan to increase the size of the last 3 ships by 8%

23%  wanted to decrease the last 3 ships in size, compared to the Edge and Apex

  6%  wanted to increase the size of the last 3 ships by more than 8%

 

Question 2) For last 3 Edge Class ships, if IV's were bigger and had other improvements:

56% wanted to have a mix of Infinite Verandas and Traditional Open Verandas, with at least 50% Open Verandas

32% wanted all verandas to be Traditional Open type

13% wanted the same distribution that is on the Edge and Apex

 

Question 3) Things people would like to see on the last 3 ships - could choose more than one

78%  better veranda furniture

75%  more shade for outside venues

69% forward view venue open for all passengers

55% more seating in the Martini Bar

52% additional lounge for live music/other entertainment

40% less suite only space

39% thalassotherapy pool

26% library/reading/device nook

25% Elite and above Lounge

22% glass elevators

22% add bar to Retreat Lounge

20% change specialty restaurants

20% gastropub

16% improve suite design

15% wine bar

13% improve Luminae design

11% rethink Eden space

  9% change to 1 large MDR, instead of 4 smaller ones

  7% improve accessibility

 

Surprises for me:

1) That 45% wanted to keep the next 3 ships the same size as the Edge and Apex. I thought more would want to have a little bigger ship, with a better chance of a couple of new venues, but I think one of the things people value about X is a smaller ship, with fewer people (65% wanted it the same or smaller).

 

2) I was a little surprised that the majority wanted a mix of IVs and traditional verandas. It feels like there may be a place for bigger, better IV, as long as we have choices.

 

3) The top changes that were desired were not much of a surprise to me. This poll supported feedback since November that veranda furniture and shade issues are definitely things that need to be changed and could be done easily. The forward view venue for all would require rethinking their whole suite/spa/fitness center design - it will be interesting to see if they will move things around at all. The Martini Bar seating could be fixed as others have suggested - by putting seating all the way around the bar. Adding another lounge should be possible to do with the increased length of the ship (or add something forward) - I think it would go a long way to improve the guest experience on the Edge. I also liked the other idea of switching a high end shop for a t-shirt, souvenir, sundries shop. Of course, I still want my wine bar and book nook (and maybe a gastropub for the DH).

 

It will be interesting to see which direction these ships go. Hopefully, while they are setting the stage for the next generation of cruisers, they will also do enough to keep their present fan base happy.

 

 

Edit: Sorry, just noticed two more people voted while I was collating the results....

 

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by vtcruising

[vtcruising]

1 hour ago, cruisefam38 said:

vtcruising, I used your estimates of the 8% increase in size (140,000 tons) to guide my search for existing comparably-sized cruise ships to better understand how much larger, and therefore how many more cabins and passengers could be expected for the proposed Edge class ships.  My answers to the survey will be as a Celebrity CEO charged with protecting the brand, which means maintaining product quality while attempting to maintain current passengers and attracting new costumers.  A tall order.

 

I found this table on Wikipedia under "world's largest cruise ships".   The last three columns are for "Number of Cabins" , "Double Occupancy", and "Maximum Capacity".  Please note than four of the ships in this approximate size range are Royal Caribbean, and might therefore represent target occupancy loads (and possible revenue generation) for the future Celebrity builds. 

Last autumn we cruised on the Silhouette, in March on the Reflection, and we were on the June 22 Equinox Caribbean cruise that just completed; all three cruises were taken in suite class.   I like that vtcruising offered this questionnaire for gathering data.

 

 

Thanks so much for doing this! I was on Adventure of the Seas many years ago (in Voyager Class) and I feel that it didn't feel that big or crowded. I am looking forward to the last 3 Edge Class ships being a little bigger - I am excited to see what they do with the extra square footage! 🙂