Great Article on Overtourism - Shouldn't Cruise Lines Mix Up Their Itineraries More?

[sverigecruiser]

2 hours ago, Extra Kim said:

I live in the south east part of Sweden. Normaly it isn't extremely cold in Kalmar, but since we live on the coast we have a wind chill factor and it's humid. 

I spent most of my military service on the island Gotland, that winter was their coldest in 20 years. I also spent one month in Boden, in the very north of Sweden. Two of those weeks in a tent with -20 to -25°C during the days and below -30°C during the nights (we worked mostly during the night).

 

I did my military service in Boden and sometimes it was below -40°C outside the tent.

 

I also remember the 1998 snowstorm we had in Gävle.

 

I prefer to spend my vacations without snow too! 

 

[Tom47]

9 hours ago, clo said:

Please provide a reputable and verifiable citation to support this.  Thanks in advance.

There is a video of RCI CEO citing these stats.  CBS GMA interview.

[ducklite]

16 minutes ago, Tom47 said:

There is a video of RCI CEO citing these stats.  CBS GMA interview.

However that doesn't take into consideration the number of people who aren't adults, who are physically or legally unable, who don't have the means, and most importantly, who just do not want to take a cruise.  

 

I meet a group of friends for dinner on a regular basis.  It's a pretty good cross-section of people aged 24-75 with a varied makeup of race, religion, education, income, and country of birth (about 15% are immigrants).  There are about 30 of us. 

Four aren't in a financial position to take a cruise.
Two would just charter a private yacht if they wanted to cruise.  (They declined an invitation to join friends on a charter that was being taped for "Below Deck.")
One has cruised and won't do it again.
One would not be physically able to cruise.

Two of us enjoy cruising but it's only 10-20% of our vacations--the others are land-based.
The rest have never and will never set foot on a cruise ship, it has about as much interest to them as cleaning a septic system.   

The reality is that his logic in assessing their potential customer base is significantly flawed.

 

[slidergirl]

18 hours ago, Thecat123 said:

I would love to see some of those Fairmont hotels in Canada which look like castles  covered in snow which I reckon would look really neat, I might not like to get out of the car though, just to look as I have only seen them with no snow

Never get snow where we live and do not understand the issues with living with snow.

Visit them in the summer!  The Banff Springs and Chateaux Lake Louise are indeed beautiful in amazing settings.  That area of Canada is very pleasant in the Summer, snow on the tops of the peaks, but warm enough for T-shirt and shorts at the hotels and Parks.  

[clo]

8 hours ago, ducklite said:

who just do not want to take a cruise. 

We're on a road trip 🙂 and were talking about this.  We know only two people who cruise at all and it represents a tiny fraction of their travel. We met them in SE Asia a few years ago and they seem to travel almost constantly but an upcoming cruise (S. America) is the first I've heard of a cruise.  (And, yeah, like you, we also know one couple who could charter a yacht 🙂  Well, maybe not since since she went to Dubai with some women friends for some shopping!!!!) We did Antarctica cause that's the only way to do it.  Then we sailed on Hurtigruten, our Antarctica line, for a Norwegian coastal trip which we'd heard was glorious and it was.  And we're sailing on Oceania in December from Rio to Buenos Aires because we got curious about how to do that.  Neither of us can picture cruising for the sake of cruising.  We're very port focused.  

[Thecat123]

1 hour ago, clo said:

 

 

7 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Visit them in the summer!  The Banff Springs and Chateaux Lake Louise are indeed beautiful in amazing settings.  That area of Canada is very pleasant in the Summer, snow on the tops of the peaks, but warm enough for T-shirt and shorts at the hotels and Parks.  

 

Yes it wasn't quite summer at Banff when we were there as we did The Rocky Mountain Train along with an Alaska cruise. We also got to stay at The Fairmont at Quebec on another trip with the weather cool but no snow. I would love to see both of the Fairmont hotels covered in snow but too far to travel from NZ  again just to see the snow

Edited August 14, 2019 by Thecat123

[clo]

1 minute ago, Thecat123 said:

 

 

Yes it wasn't quite summer at Banff when we were there as we did The Rocky Mountain Train along with an Alaska cruise. We also got to stay at The Fairmont at Quebec on another trip with the weather cool but no snow. I would love to see both of the Fairmont hotels covered in snow but too far to travel from NZ  again just to see the snow

We did a Rocky Mountaineer, Vancouver to Jasper.  Then a motorcoach down to Banff, stopping at a wonderful glacier. Then back to Vancouver.  Great trip.

[OzKiwiJJ]

5 hours ago, Thecat123 said:

 I would love to see both of the Fairmont hotels covered in snow but too far to travel from NZ  again just to see the snow

But at least you can go to the Chateau Tongariro instead, assuming there is still enough snow there once in a while to make it look amazing. 

[Thecat123]

23 minutes ago, OzKiwiJJ said:

But at least you can go to the Chateau Tongariro instead, assuming there is still enough snow there once in a while to make it look amazing. 

 

And its only about 4 hours away 😀

[oskarNZ]

Just now, Thecat123 said:

 

And its only about 4 hours away 😀

Yes, or head to Aoraki/Mt Cook in the winter.  The Hermitage may not have the glamour of a castle, but the view outward is to die for. 

[OzKiwiJJ]

1 hour ago, oskarNZ said:

Yes, or head to Aoraki/Mt Cook in the winter.  The Hermitage may not have the glamour of a castle, but the view outward is to die for. 

True as long as Aoraki is being nice and not hiding in the clouds.

[evandbob]

23 hours ago, slidergirl said:

Visit them in the summer!  The Banff Springs and Chateaux Lake Louise are indeed beautiful in amazing settings.  That area of Canada is very pleasant in the Summer, snow on the tops of the peaks, but warm enough for T-shirt and shorts at the hotels and Parks.  

 

 

We were in Banff on a June 1 years ago, I was in shorts and a tee shirt, and then it snowed for about an hour after which it all melted away.  Banff to Jasper is a most incredible drive.  Do it before the glaciers melt away!  The Columbia Icefield had receded significantly between my 1st and 2nd visits there (about 5 or 7 yrs apart).

[slidergirl]

7 minutes ago, evandbob said:

 

 

We were in Banff on a June 1 years ago, I was in shorts and a tee shirt, and then it snowed for about an hour after which it all melted away.  Banff to Jasper is a most incredible drive.  Do it before the glaciers melt away!  The Columbia Icefield had receded significantly between my 1st and 2nd visits there (about 5 or 7 yrs apart).

Yep, the drive between Banff and Jasper is beautiful.  Did it one summer when we added some time to our training at the Olympic Park with our athletes.  Gotta say - those ravens at the Athabasca Glacier were the size of condors!!!  They could probably pick up a wolf with no problem.  Last time I was there, they had markers to show where the Icefield was a different times - made it very easy to visualize the changes.  Plus, where else can you park at the side of the road and walk up a glacier!!!

If I had unlimited funds, I would love to combine a cruise to Alaska with train trip from Vancouver to Calgary.  That part of Canada is so varied and beautiful, from the fields and vineyards to the mountains and glaciers.  

[evandbob]

Just read a different article on overtourism at the Louvre.  Seems folks in line to view the Mona Lisa have a minimum one hour wait due to crowds.  Few in line seem interested in the numerous Rubens along the way. 

 

They have about one minute of actual viewing time when they get to DaVinci's masterpiece, and most view it through their cell phone or camera's screen as they take multiple shots or selfies.  Very few are reported to look directly at the painting.

 

I can remember being on a moving walkway to view the Pieta at the 1964 NYC World's Fair.  It obviously left a lasting impression on me.  Glad I wasn't looking at it through a phone screen!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom47]

1 hour ago, slidergirl said:

Yep, the drive between Banff and Jasper is beautiful.  Did it one summer when we added some time to our training at the Olympic Park with our athletes.  Gotta say - those ravens at the Athabasca Glacier were the size of condors!!!  They could probably pick up a wolf with no problem.  Last time I was there, they had markers to show where the Icefield was a different times - made it very easy to visualize the changes.  Plus, where else can you park at the side of the road and walk up a glacier!!!

If I had unlimited funds, I would love to combine a cruise to Alaska with train trip from Vancouver to Calgary.  That part of Canada is so varied and beautiful, from the fields and vineyards to the mountains and glaciers.  

Nine years ago we spent 3 weeks on a cross Canada VIA rr trip, Toronto-Vancouver-Toronto.  We got off the train in Jasper and spent 10 days visiting  all 6 national parks.  Back on the train and spent 6 days visiting Vancouver and Victoria, including a day trip on Rocky Mountaineer to Whistler, BC.  One of our best trips.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Tom47

[ldubs]

1 hour ago, Tom47 said:

Nine years ago we spent 3 weeks on a cross Canada VIA rr trip, Toronto-Vancouver-Toronto.  We got off the train in Jasper and spent 10 days visiting  all 6 national parks.  Back on the train and spent 6 days visiting Vancouver and Victoria, including a day trip on Rocky Mountaineer to Whistler, BC.  One of our best trips.

 

That sounds fantastic and gives me a great idea for a future trip.  I don't know about a cross Canada train trip, but spending extended time around British Columbia is appealing.   

[Tom47]

2 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

That sounds fantastic and gives me a great idea for a future trip.  I don't know about a cross Canada train trip, but spending extended time around British Columbia is appealing.   

Toronto-Vancouver is 4 days.   These are the NPs that we visited:

Alberta-- 2

Banff 8/10, Jasper 9/10,

British Columbia--4

Glacier  9/10, Kootenay 8/10, Mount Revelstoke 9/10,  Yoho 9/10

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, Tom47 said:

Toronto-Vancouver is 4 days.   These are the NPs that we visited:

Alberta-- 2

 

Banff 8/10, Jasper 9/10,

 

British Columbia--4

 

Glacier  9/10, Kootenay 8/10, Mount Revelstoke 9/10,  Yoho 9/10

 

Thanks!  👍

[ducklite]

3 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

That sounds fantastic and gives me a great idea for a future trip.  I don't know about a cross Canada train trip, but spending extended time around British Columbia is appealing.   

 

Having driven from Vancouver to Montreal, it's not a trip I'd really suggest.  It's a very, very long trip with a couple days of driving across nothing.

[ldubs]

9 minutes ago, ducklite said:

 

Having driven from Vancouver to Montreal, it's not a trip I'd really suggest.  It's a very, very long trip with a couple days of driving across nothing.

 

No, that is too far to drive.  Train might be viable.   Anyway I love what little of BC I've seen so far and would like to explore it more.  

Edited August 14, 2019 by ldubs

[chipmaster]

If you think there are a lot more tourist compared to a few years ago, yeah there are a lot more

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-hottest-perk-in-tourism-making-the-crowds-disappear-11565793755

 

"1.4 billion in 2018, according to the United Nations’ World Tourism Organization. That is up from 1.32 billion in 2017 and 680 million in 2000"

 

"This year, Le Sirenuse had to take measures to thwart the crowds at its own property. The hotel has become a favorite of Instagrammers seeking selfies on its terrace and pool deck. “Hotel guests were saying they found it irritating being subjected to people walking everywhere and infringing on their privacy,” says Antonio Sersale, the hotel’s owner. So this spring, Le Sirenuse instituted a new policy: If you’re not staying at the hotel, you need a restaurant or bar reservation to enter the property. An employee stationed at the front door enforces it."

 

"In the evenings, the main pedestrian streets of Oia, Santorini, are so jammed with tourists wanting to catch the town’s iconic sunset that it “looks like a football game with the masses going in and out of the stadium. And the stadium is the sunset,” says Evangelos Dimos, general manager of the Mystique, part of Marriott International ’s Luxury Collection brand. So Mystique staff tell their sunset-seeking guests to skip town altogether. Instead, concierges will book private catamarans for guests to watch from the sea or usher them via hotel cars (taxis can be hard to find) to the quieter towns of Megalochori or Akrotiri, where they can view from low-key bars and cafes. Rooms including breakfast begin at about $1,180 per night in high season. The catamaran tour is about $175 per person or nearly $1,700 to rent the entire boat."

 

Love it pay a hefty penny to go to an iconic place only to book a tour to escape it, best sunset off my deck or out of my bedroom view, LOL

 

[slidergirl]

19 hours ago, ducklite said:

 

Having driven from Vancouver to Montreal, it's not a trip I'd really suggest.  It's a very, very long trip with a couple days of driving across nothing.

Depends on your outlook.  In the US, there are parts that are "driving across nothing."  But, you have some spectacular places in between!   Canada is even more spectacular.  Yes, parts of Saskatchewan and Manitoba are like driving through Missouri and Kansas and Iowa.  Going via train is different than driving.   But, I would recommend driving from Vancouver to Calgary!  It was amazing the entire way.  I'd do the train just to do it relaxing than driving.  I took the train from Seattle to Los Angeles last year - it was soooo much nicer and interesting than driving.

[ducklite]

42 minutes ago, slidergirl said:

Depends on your outlook.  In the US, there are parts that are "driving across nothing."  But, you have some spectacular places in between!   Canada is even more spectacular.  Yes, parts of Saskatchewan and Manitoba are like driving through Missouri and Kansas and Iowa.  Going via train is different than driving.   But, I would recommend driving from Vancouver to Calgary!  It was amazing the entire way.  I'd do the train just to do it relaxing than driving.  I took the train from Seattle to Los Angeles last year - it was soooo much nicer and interesting than driving.

Of course Vancouver to Calgary is a spectacular drive, I've made it half a dozen times. However the person I was responding to was talking about going across Canada. Big difference.  

[mnocket]

22 hours ago, evandbob said:

Just read a different article on overtourism at the Louvre.  Seems folks in line to view the Mona Lisa have a minimum one hour wait due to crowds.  Few in line seem interested in the numerous Rubens along the way. 

 

They have about one minute of actual viewing time when they get to DaVinci's masterpiece, and most view it through their cell phone or camera's screen as they take multiple shots or selfies.  Very few are reported to look directly at the painting.

 

I can remember being on a moving walkway to view the Pieta at the 1964 NYC World's Fair.  It obviously left a lasting impression on me.  Glad I wasn't looking at it through a phone screen!!

 

 

It's really getting bad at many places.  I'm recently retired and so I'm now traveling and visiting many places for the first time, so I don't really have a "then vs now" point of comparison.  However, I recently visited London after not having been there for 20+ years.  Twenty years ago I made no advanced reservations for the popular tourist attractions and as I recall I just walked right into most of them.  This trip, even with "skip the line" reservations there was often a bit of a line, and without reservations you would be stuck in a line for hours.  Huge difference from 20 years ago.  I hate lines and can't imagine ever waiting an hour in one to view the Mona Lisa - which I guess means I will never see it. 

[slidergirl]

On 8/15/2019 at 11:05 AM, mnocket said:

 

It's really getting bad at many places.  I'm recently retired and so I'm now traveling and visiting many places for the first time, so I don't really have a "then vs now" point of comparison.  However, I recently visited London after not having been there for 20+ years.  Twenty years ago I made no advanced reservations for the popular tourist attractions and as I recall I just walked right into most of them.  This trip, even with "skip the line" reservations there was often a bit of a line, and without reservations you would be stuck in a line for hours.  Huge difference from 20 years ago.  I hate lines and can't imagine ever waiting an hour in one to view the Mona Lisa - which I guess means I will never see it. 

Every museum it seems has one piece that every tourist wants to check off their "must see" list, ignoring everything else.  I see people on here saying they got their tickets to "see David" in Florence, seemingly ignoring all the others things in the Academia.  People say they are going to see the Sistine Chapel, ignoring the magnificent paintings and sculptures and tapestries along the way in the Vatican Museums.  It took me 4 trips to Rome before I finally said I'd to into St. Peters Basilica for my one definite things to visit.  I actually forgot the Pieta was in there, so I was pleasantly surprised to see it.  The first time I went to the Louve, I didn't even thing about going to see the Mona Lisa - spent most of my time in the Egyptian section.  When I did get there again, I wasn't looking for it, but I ended up passing by it - hoards of tourists with those freakin' cellphones out and taking photos, with some dumb enough to not know to TURN OFF THE FLASH.