Great Article on Overtourism - Shouldn't Cruise Lines Mix Up Their Itineraries More?

[MicCanberra]

Yep, there is that too.

[cruisemom42]

I've just posted this on the Ports of Call forums for Italy -- apparently Venice has definitively banned cruise ships from transiting through the heart of the city via the Giudecca canal, but so far the stories are somewhat short on detail as to how this will be handled in future. There have been many concerns raised by locals about the overcrowding and damage to Venice's monuments (not entirely caused by cruisers but definitely exacerbated by them, since so many are day trippers who do not contribute much to the local economy). Concerns have also surfaced about damage to the ecosystem of Venice's lagoon, damage caused by bow waves of large cruise ships to the wooden foundations of Venice, and potential dangers to other watercraft when these huge ships are not controlled -- such as in June when a large cruise ship rammed into a much smaller river cruiser in Venice....

 

The article I quoted in my other post also has some updated on actions being considered in Dubrovnik and Barcelona to limit tourist numbers.

 

 

[ducklite]

32 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

I've just posted this on the Ports of Call forums for Italy -- apparently Venice has definitively banned cruise ships from transiting through the heart of the city via the Giudecca canal, but so far the stories are somewhat short on detail as to how this will be handled in future. There have been many concerns raised by locals about the overcrowding and damage to Venice's monuments (not entirely caused by cruisers but definitely exacerbated by them, since so many are day trippers who do not contribute much to the local economy). Concerns have also surfaced about damage to the ecosystem of Venice's lagoon, damage caused by bow waves of large cruise ships to the wooden foundations of Venice, and potential dangers to other watercraft when these huge ships are not controlled -- such as in June when a large cruise ship rammed into a much smaller river cruiser in Venice....

 

The article I quoted in my other post also has some updated on actions being considered in Dubrovnik and Barcelona to limit tourist numbers.

 

 

The cruise lines with their bigger and bigger ships brought this on themselves.  Hopefully the authorities will still allow the small ships into the Giudecca Canal.  If for no other reason, the people that sail them are far more likely to spend money on shore having lunch, etc.

[chipmaster]

Tourism is something the relatively rich middle class of all countries add to to their list.   

 

People either from childhood, or National Geo, or Rick Steve's or even the latest Instagram/Snapchat popularity are racing to many of the old classic places like Rome, Paris, Venice, etc. etc. as well as new places like Horse Shoe Bend.   

 

The tourism operators ( airlines, ships, ) even locals thru AirBnB and trinket sellers are all exploiting this, its their livelhood.  Find balance indeed, the needs of those who look to spend their money and those who want to take it, LOL.

 

Regulation sometimes works, makes it more enjoyable for those that can afford the inconvenience, higher cost, more exlusivity.  Frankly in the end to protect places you either limit and increase price or....   no easy solution.

 

Expanding places to go don't work, you need to create a demand, w/o demand you need to drop prices, age old supply / demand curve.   People don't want to go to some obscure beach/island or foreign city, but wait all you need is some clever snapchat/instagram/facebook marketing and viola.

 

An interesting read about Sanitorini, lucky they aren't into cruising, yet .... just wait!   https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/world/europe/greece-santorini-wedding-photography-chinese-couples.html

Edited August 8, 2019 by chipmaster

[ed01106]

19 minutes ago, chipmaster said:

Tourism is something the relatively rich middle class of all countries add to to their list.   

 

People either from childhood, or National Geo, or Rick Steve's or even the latest Instagram/Snapchat popularity are racing to many of the old classic places like Rome, Paris, Venice, etc. etc. as well as new places like Horse Shoe Bend.   

 

The tourism operators ( airlines, ships, ) even locals thru AirBnB and trinket sellers are all exploiting this, its their livelhood.  Find balance indeed, the needs of those who look to spend their money and those who want to take it, LOL.

 

Regulation sometimes works, makes it more enjoyable for those that can afford the inconvenience, higher cost, more exlusivity.  Frankly in the end to protect places you either limit and increase price or....   no easy solution.

 

Expanding places to go don't work, you need to create a demand, w/o demand you need to drop prices, age old supply / demand curve.   People don't want to go to some obscure beach/island or foreign city, but wait all you need is some clever snapchat/instagram/facebook marketing and viola.

 

An interesting read about Sanitorini, lucky they aren't into cruising, yet .... just wait!   https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/world/europe/greece-santorini-wedding-photography-chinese-couples.html

The other problem is if you attempt to spread things out typically makes things worse.

 

Oversimplified example.  Island has two beaches.  Beach 1 has a boardwalk, shops, bars, amenities, etc  and 99% of all the visitors and often their are complaints of overcrowding. Beach 2 can only be accessed by walking a mile down a rough trail and doesn’t even have portapotties.

 

Solutions build a road, etc to beach 2 so beach 1 is not so crowded.  

 

End result: the pristine nature of beach 2 is destroyed and both beaches are crowded.

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, chipmaster said:

 

An interesting read about Sanitorini, lucky they aren't into cruising, yet .... just wait!   https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/world/europe/greece-santorini-wedding-photography-chinese-couples.html

 

I actually ran into one of those photo shoots on my last visit to Santorini. I could not believe the risks this couple was taking -- there was a sheer drop to the rocks below on three sides of this steeply curved roof! (The mother and photographer were egging them on...)

 

[SRF]

5 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I actually ran into one of those photo shoots on my last visit to Santorini. I could not believe the risks this couple was taking -- there was a sheer drop to the rocks below on three sides of this steeply curved roof! (The mother and photographer were egging them on...)

 

Saw a similar thing on Table Mountain in Capetown.  People going over the barrier to take pictures.  And walking on unstable rocks, while looking at the phone or table to frame the shot, with a 1000 foot drop.

 

Darwin.

[ducklite]

And when they fall and die it will be everyone's fault but their own.

[mnocket]

2 hours ago, chipmaster said:

Tourism is something the relatively rich middle class of all countries add to to their list.   

 

People either from childhood, or National Geo, or Rick Steve's or even the latest Instagram/Snapchat popularity are racing to many of the old classic places like Rome, Paris, Venice, etc. etc. as well as new places like Horse Shoe Bend.   

 

The tourism operators ( airlines, ships, ) even locals thru AirBnB and trinket sellers are all exploiting this, its their livelhood.  Find balance indeed, the needs of those who look to spend their money and those who want to take it, LOL.

 

Regulation sometimes works, makes it more enjoyable for those that can afford the inconvenience, higher cost, more exlusivity.  Frankly in the end to protect places you either limit and increase price or....   no easy solution.

 

Expanding places to go don't work, you need to create a demand, w/o demand you need to drop prices, age old supply / demand curve.   People don't want to go to some obscure beach/island or foreign city, but wait all you need is some clever snapchat/instagram/facebook marketing and viola.

 

An interesting read about Sanitorini, lucky they aren't into cruising, yet .... just wait!   https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/06/world/europe/greece-santorini-wedding-photography-chinese-couples.html

That is part of what I mean when I say cruise lines should "develop" new ports.  It can be done.  The world is a big place and there are many many beautiful and interesting locations - many more than appear on the popular cruise line itineraries. 

[mnocket]

2 hours ago, ed01106 said:

The other problem is if you attempt to spread things out typically makes things worse.

 

Oversimplified example.  Island has two beaches.  Beach 1 has a boardwalk, shops, bars, amenities, etc  and 99% of all the visitors and often their are complaints of overcrowding. Beach 2 can only be accessed by walking a mile down a rough trail and doesn’t even have portapotties.

 

Solutions build a road, etc to beach 2 so beach 1 is not so crowded.  

 

End result: the pristine nature of beach 2 is destroyed and both beaches are crowded.

There is another way to look at it.....

  

  

End result:  The problem is reduced by 50%.

  

  

Take another analogy......   There is a long line formed at a single service window.  Open a second window - presto, the problem is reduced by half.  Open 2 more windows - the problem is reduced by half again.  Lesson:  Given a certain demand, there is an optimal supply that benefits everyone involved.  It is my contention that cruise lines should (must?) develop new ports in order to address demand.   Failure to do so will have negative consequences for everyone involved.

[ducklite]

40 minutes ago, mnocket said:

That is part of what I mean when I say cruise lines should "develop" new ports.  It can be done.  The world is a big place and there are many many beautiful and interesting locations - many more than appear on the popular cruise line itineraries. 

Frankly I wouldn't want to go to a port specifically "developed" by a cruise line.  It's just a fake, plastic thing at that point, and developing a beautiful, interesting location just opens it up to being overrun.

 

 

 

 

[navybankerteacher]

9 minutes ago, ducklite said:

Frankly I wouldn't want to go to a port specifically "developed" by a cruise line.  It's just a fake, plastic thing at that point, and developing a beautiful, interesting location just opens it up to being overrun.

 

 

 

 

Correct.  Labadee on Haiti is a good example:  totally fake, nothing to do with Haiti, even a  second rate beach with sharp fragments of rock/coral.  

 

 

[mnocket]

5 minutes ago, ducklite said:

Frankly I wouldn't want to go to a port specifically "developed" by a cruise line.  It's just a fake, plastic thing at that point, and developing a beautiful, interesting location just opens it up to being overrun.

 

 

 

 

I'm not talking about these "private islands" some cruise lines are developing.  It is my belief that a location does not need to be famous in order to be beautiful and interesting.  Today, cruise lines all visit the same well known ports.  In the Mediterranean for instance there are many coastal locations that would intrigue those looking for history and beauty.

[ed01106]

4 minutes ago, mnocket said:

I'm not talking about these "private islands" some cruise lines are developing.  It is my belief that a location does not need to be famous in order to be beautiful and interesting.  Today, cruise lines all visit the same well known ports.  In the Mediterranean for instance there are many coastal locations that would intrigue those looking for history and beauty.

With deep enough harbors and enough infrastructure to handle the passengers?

 

Best way to be able to raise prices and still sellout is to add a port that is new.  Cruise to Cuba would sellout despite being twice the price as other Caribbean cruises because it was a new port. 

 

[chipmaster]

1 hour ago, mnocket said:

There is another way to look at it.....

  

  

End result:  The problem is reduced by 50%.

  

  

Take another analogy......   There is a long line formed at a single service window.  Open a second window - presto, the problem is reduced by half.  Open 2 more windows - the problem is reduced by half again.  Lesson:  Given a certain demand, there is an optimal supply that benefits everyone involved.  It is my contention that cruise lines should (must?) develop new ports in order to address demand.   Failure to do so will have negative consequences for everyone involved.

 

This open more windows doesn't work for places like Santorini, Venice, Paris, Vatican etc. etc.   For a history there is indeed history, maybe ask HBO to pick a different place for their next Thrones, but again there was a reason they picked where they picked. 

 

Even beaches, mountains, valleys, the locals already know the pretty places, should we expose those places to the hordes?    Or keep them secret for those who do research, willing to hike hours or days to get to.   Look what is going to happen in Peru if they build that airport?

 

This is simply the natural and unstoppable impact of growing global population and increased economic wealth.  I guess you can make these places limited by price, or control the population and wealth.

Edited August 8, 2019 by chipmaster

[ontheweb]

2 hours ago, ducklite said:

And when they fall and die it will be everyone's fault but their own.

But, it will be a great photo shoot and in addition will go viral on youtube.

[ducklite]

1 hour ago, mnocket said:

I'm not talking about these "private islands" some cruise lines are developing.  It is my belief that a location does not need to be famous in order to be beautiful and interesting.  Today, cruise lines all visit the same well known ports.  In the Mediterranean for instance there are many coastal locations that would intrigue those looking for history and beauty.

And many are already accessible on smaller ships, and I don't see the point of adding a bunch of souvenir shops and huge port facilities to accommodate big ships and ruin the entire experience of a small port.

[ducklite]

Here's the way I look at it. If you want an urban experience, take your vacation in a city.  If you want a theme park experience, go to one.  If you want to see new small ports, take a cruise that will give you those. But don't expect to do it on your floating urban theme park monolith and expect the world to change itself because you don't like the ports you already have.  

 

You need to be the one to change, not the small ports who most likely don't want the big ships to begin with, or they would have already begun developing facilities for them.

[MicCanberra]

The Chinese are already getting into cruising, the main difference at the moment is that it is a relatively small percentage cruising and they mainly do it on specific cruise lines catering for the Chinese. Some mass market lines are now catering for this market (Royal, Princess specifically) for the Asia season and that will increase and get more travelling further and wider.

Just note that it will only take 2% of the Chinese (28million) cruising, and it will likely be flooding the market. BTW, that is more than Australia's population, and around 8.5% of the USA's..

[ilikeanswers]

This article is nice complement to the OPs article:

The Problem with Cruise Ships

 

It mostly focuses on environmental impact and seems to indicate that it is the mega ships that are main issues. Though the suggestion to choose ships that have a good relationship with their ports of calls is curious since where would one find that information🤔? The only cruise companies I have seen talk about their contributions to the local economy are small expedition cruises😳. 

[ilikeanswers]

8 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

I've just posted this on the Ports of Call forums for Italy -- apparently Venice has definitively banned cruise ships from transiting through the heart of the city via the Giudecca canal, but so far the stories are somewhat short on detail as to how this will be handled in future.

 

 

I had read they will bus cruisers into Venice which itself has its problems. Personally I am all for limiting the numbers. I have visited attractions that have daily visitor quotas (Alhambra, Wawel Castle) and while it is a hassle to have to get you tickets beforehand or arrive before tickets are sold out the experience is just much more pleasant than having to navigating hordes of uncontrolled crowds. Besides if you really want to kill the golden goose letting it deteriorate is going to do it. So if limiting numbers helps caretakers keep the destinations in good condition I will put up with the hassle, after all I'm just a tourist better I have the hassle than the people who live there. 

[MicCanberra]

Agreed. Limiting number is the only way to preserve some of these places.

[cruisemom42]

17 hours ago, chipmaster said:

 

This open more windows doesn't work for places like Santorini, Venice, Paris, Vatican etc. etc.   For a history there is indeed history, maybe ask HBO to pick a different place for their next Thrones, but again there was a reason they picked where they picked. 

 

 

What amuses me is people who travel to visit sites where Game of Thrones, or The Godfather, were filmed -- as if these were places where real history took place. They are movie sets!  😏

[ducklite]

6 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

What amuses me is people who travel to visit sites where Game of Thrones, or The Godfather, were filmed -- as if these were places where real history took place. They are movie sets!  😏

 

This!!  

The boom in tourism is going to become a bust for Belfast.  So many companies were started just to cater to the tourists flocking in to see where the series was filmed.  But memories are fleeting and in a couple of years people will be saying "Game of What?" and that entire segment of tourism to NI will be in shambles.  

[Tom47]

34 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

What amuses me is people who travel to visit sites where Game of Thrones, or The Godfather, were filmed -- as if these were places where real history took place. They are movie sets!  😏

To each his/her own☺