Prinsendam's conversion into Amera

[iancal]

Other cruise lines started  planning for and moving into this market years ago.  There is choice out there in the marketplace and there always will be if there is a market for it.  They  may not have a HAL logo on the funnel.

 

Has HAL announced any new builds of smaller ships or even a nod in that direction?  

Edited July 19, 2019 by iancal

[Sir PMP]

1 hour ago, iancal said:

Other cruise lines started  planning for and moving into this market years ago.  There is choice out there in the marketplace and there always will be if there is a market for it.  They  may not have a HAL logo on the funnel.

 

Has HAL announced any new builds of smaller ships or even a nod in that direction?  

Orlando has said that a replacement for the Prinsendam is coming, we just don't know what century..Also Copper and I discussed the possible coming of 2 Seabourns..

[Hawaiidan]

4 hours ago, sevenseasnomad said:

Carnival Corp. has chosen to sell the smaller ships in the HAL fleet, claiming they're not profitable.  I wonder if they'd elected to renovate these ships, particularly such a beloved ship like Prinsendam, would they retain a lot of loyal HAL passengers who are now booking with other lines, some of which aren't even connected to Carnival Corp?  I would love to think that some time in the future Carnival Corp. would consider smaller new ships, maybe 2-3 for HAL.  Does anyone see this happening or am I building "castles in the sky"? 

The problem is that newer smaller ships would  not be in the same economic fare range that HAL charges  you would need to have fares starting at $150-200pp  per day... and up   Your talking prem/luxury level cruises and HAL demographic would not match the new ships.       CCL wants HAL passengers to leave HAL and go to Seabourn  when their wants change for smaller and better experience.     Making HAL  a competitor  of their Seabourn rather than a feederwould not be productive foe them

[RevNeal]

Thanks for posting these pics, and for the links to more pics.  I loved this ship; I did a wonderful cruise to Iceland, Longyearbyen, the polar ice pack, and Norway aboard her.  She was wonderful, even though dated.

[hal lover]

I feel truly blessed that I got to sail on the ship before she left the fleet.  Only a 6 nighter, but I went!  

[kazu]

49 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

CCL wants HAL passengers to leave HAL and go to Seabourn  when their wants change for smaller and better experience.     Making HAL  a competitor  of their Seabourn rather than a feederwould not be productive foe them

 

What CCL wants /thinks will happen is NOT what seems to be happening.  Seabourn has a lot of competition out there and most CC’ers that I know have not moved to Seabourn.  It’s a small sampling of course but they are moving to Viking, Oceania, Azamara and Silversea, etc.  

 

Just because people liked Prinsendam is no guarantee they will stay loyal to CCL.

 

In fact, a number of people I knew on Prinsendam who were very high star Mariners only sailed Prinsendam.  They didn’t sail any other HAL ship.  Rather, they sailed other cruise lines.  I suspect they will all return to them.  JMO though.

[DeepWaterMariner]

Interesting pictures.  I sailed on the ship in a pre-Prinsendam design, when she was the Seabourn Sun, and several times in her Holland America design.  Sorry to see her go, but this is the fate of aging cruise ships.  

[Mickb]

I think we should celebrate that there is a cruise line out there that is prepared to spend what is obviously a considerable amount of money on renovating what is a near 40 year old ship. Phoenix Reisen has a very loyal following of passengers who enjoy cruising on smaller more traditional ships. Her sisters will be the Artania  ex Royal Princess, Amadea ex Asuka and Albatross one of the old Royal Viking Ships. I think Peter Deilmann’s old Deutschland has also recently joined the fleet.  Rather than bewailing the fact that she has gone - why not book a cruise and celebrate her in her new guise?

[kazu]

11 minutes ago, Mickb said:

Rather than bewailing the fact that she has gone - why not book a cruise and celebrate her in her new guise?

 

While DH and I are comfortable in several languages, German is not one of the languages either of us speak, unfortunately. 😉 

[Himself]

17 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

She departs Bremerhaven on her first voyage for Phoenix on 21 Aug 2019

That is the day after my 80th Birthday.  When did I get so old?

[sammiedawg]

Carnival Corp has Seabourn for any loyalists who love the brand.  

Premium  and luxury lines have flourished for decades.   Their customer base mostly came over from mass market lines like Holland America, Princess, Celebrity.  We’ve been on quite a few of these lines.   They are more expensive but their overall products are superior.   Not many of their customers go back and forth to the mass markets but many alternate the premium and luxury lines.   

Trying something different is good.   

 

[Storylady]

Thanks John for posting. The Prinsendam was our favorite ship and we were lucky to do the last Kiel Canal, the last Panama Canal, the last Antarctica Cruise, the last cruise that took her to the top of Norway and back to Amsterdam where she left to go to the shipyards in Hamburg. She may have been old, but she was even able to visit new ports of call even during her last cruises: Isle of Jersey, Arendal Norway and Esjberg Denmark. She cut through the waves like no other ship we have sailed on. And if we could speak German, we would sail on her as the Amera like some President Club friends plan on doing.

 

[Hawaiidan]

3 hours ago, kazu said:

 

What CCL wants /thinks will happen is NOT what seems to be happening.  Seabourn has a lot of competition out there and most CC’ers that I know have not moved to Seabourn.  It’s a small sampling of course but they are moving to Viking, Oceania, Azamara and Silversea, etc.  

 

Just because people liked Prinsendam is no guarantee they will stay loyal to CCL.

 

In fact, a number of people I knew on Prinsendam who were very high star Mariners only sailed Prinsendam.  They didn’t sail any other HAL ship.  Rather, they sailed other cruise lines.  I suspect they will all return to them.  JMO though.

 Yes I suspect that your right  that prinsendam specific customers  will go to other lines.    However, I  still see  that  Carnival corp/ business plan is to offer a series of ever increasing experiences within its vale. In this way customers will still retain their  corp status if they move upward within the partners.  It is possible that maybe Carnival wanted to rid its self  of a  distraction  for  marketing Seabourn...  The Prinsendam   was standing in the way of that.

 

  In that vein, constructing new small ships would  be competition to Seabourn and their  passenger " development"  model  for  not bigger and bigger, but better and better experiences..   Customers willing to seek  and be willing to pay higher and higher fares.    

So is Carnival wringing its hands at the loss of long term HAL passengers?    I  think  they they see  this as getting rid of expensive old dead wood who was costing them in benefits, to make way for newer customers who they conditioned  as they rose in the Carnival experience plan.

I might be wrong  but  I see this sort of  systemic marketing in  other places  Hotel chains, Airlines, Autos......    Just my observation     

[Hawaiidan]

54 minutes ago, Mickb said:

I think we should celebrate that there is a cruise line out there that is prepared to spend what is obviously a considerable amount of money on renovating what is a near 40 year old ship. Phoenix Reisen has a very loyal following of passengers who enjoy cruising on smaller more traditional ships. Her sisters will be the Artania  ex Royal Princess, Amadea ex Asuka and Albatross one of the old Royal Viking Ships. I think Peter Deilmann’s old Deutschland has also recently joined the fleet.  Rather than bewailing the fact that she has gone - why not book a cruise and celebrate her in her new guise?

Actualy  Prinsendam  was also an Old Royal Viking ship too... back in the day Royal Viking was  THE  top dog....   Perhaps Phoenix  will  restore her to pre HAL modifications.. as THe  Royal Viking SUN....

[Hawaiidan]

21 minutes ago, sammiedawg said:

Carnival Corp has Seabourn for any loyalists who love the brand.  

Premium  and luxury lines have flourished for decades.   Their customer base mostly came over from mass market lines like Holland America, Princess, Celebrity.  We’ve been on quite a few of these lines.   They are more expensive but their overall products are superior.   Not many of their customers go back and forth to the mass markets but many alternate the premium and luxury lines.   

Trying something different is good.   

 

You do get what you pay for... yes, you may pay 50 to 100% more  but the overall product and experience are 200-300% greater value..    Time is more valuable than  money...  to get the best experience of that time.

[2LoveBikes]

Thank you for the photos and update on her renovations.  Truly appreciate.

[sammiedawg]

27 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

You do get what you pay for... yes, you may pay 50 to 100% more  but the overall product and experience are 200-300% greater value..    Time is more valuable than  money...  to get the best experience of that time.

 

Totally agree.  If I don’t care for the cruise ship or hotel I feel like I’m wasting my time.  

[whogo]

I was impressed by this one:

 

 

[arzz]

We sailed the Prinsendam several times between 2007 and 2018.  We will miss her very much and were saddened that it did not work out for us to be on her final cruise.  

 

The photos of a beloved ship being eviscerated that were posted by Copper 10-8 (thank you Copper for doing this) are both horrifying and exciting. So sad to see what is left of so many very familiar spaces - yet there is a somewhat exciting hope to realize that she will have another life very soon.  

 

On our last Prinsendam voyage it was quite clear that she needed big work ... water dripping from the ceiling into the dining room and kitchen, teak decking that was so thin that it squished down and squirted water up from between the teak boards after rain ... we are, however, very sorry that  HAL chose not to do the necessary work themselves.

 

One of her big attractions were the small ports where we could enjoy the sights without hordes of other cruisers as well as the more intimate atmosphere on board ship.

 

As to the future - we are currently on the fence.  After much soul searching last year we chose Antarctica for January 2019 on Seabourn rather than Prinsendam (we were lured by the zodiac landings) and we have to admit that the Seabourn experience, in total, was outstanding.  Last May it was a Pacific crossing on the Noordam which was unbelievably inexpensive yet it was also a stellar cruise experience.  For September we will be round trip Dublin on Seabourn.

 

Not sure where we will land, though we definitely prefer the small ship experience - but due to tariffs we will cruise only a fraction of the days that we cruised on HAL.  Too bad we can no longer have this experience on Holland America.

 

[cruisemom42]

10 hours ago, sevenseasnomad said:

Carnival Corp. has chosen to sell the smaller ships in the HAL fleet, claiming they're not profitable.  I wonder if they'd elected to renovate these ships, particularly such a beloved ship like Prinsendam, would they retain a lot of loyal HAL passengers who are now booking with other lines, some of which aren't even connected to Carnival Corp?  I would love to think that some time in the future Carnival Corp. would consider smaller new ships, maybe 2-3 for HAL.  Does anyone see this happening or am I building "castles in the sky"? 

 

I think the cost of building a new small ship would be prohibitive -- it would require much higher per diem rates than HAL could likely command. That's the reality. As far as renovating an existing ship, there may be some potential -- the question would be whether it's in HAL's strategic plan.

[Storylady]

14 minutes ago, arzz said:

We sailed the Prinsendam several times between 2007 and 2018.  We will miss her very much and were saddened that it did not work out for us to be on her final cruise.  

 

The photos of a beloved ship being eviscerated that were posted by Copper 10-8 (thank you Copper for doing this) are both horrifying and exciting. So sad to see what is left of so many very familiar spaces - yet there is a somewhat exciting hope to realize that she will have another life very soon.  

 

On our last Prinsendam voyage it was quite clear that she needed big work ... water dripping from the ceiling into the dining room and kitchen, teak decking that was so thin that it squished down and squirted water up from between the teak boards after rain ... we are, however, very sorry that  HAL chose not to do the necessary work themselves.

 

One of her big attractions were the small ports where we could enjoy the sights without hordes of other cruisers as well as the more intimate atmosphere on board ship.

 

As to the future - we are currently on the fence.  After much soul searching last year we chose Antarctica for January 2019 on Seabourn rather than Prinsendam (we were lured by the zodiac landings) and we have to admit that the Seabourn experience, in total, was outstanding.  Last May it was a Pacific crossing on the Noordam which was unbelievably inexpensive yet it was also a stellar cruise experience.  For September we will be round trip Dublin on Seabourn.

 

Not sure where we will land, though we definitely prefer the small ship experience - but due to tariffs we will cruise only a fraction of the days that we cruised on HAL.  Too bad we can no longer have this experience on Holland America.

 

As for the shape the Prinsendam was in. She actually was in the best shape we have ever seen during her last two months final voyages. I am sure a lot of problems were taken care of during dry dock in December.  And we were told that she had to be as good or better than the day they sold her. HAL leased her for the last year’s sailings. They were NOT even allowed to take anything off the wall. Although, I did see most of the Prinsendam port call plaques were taken down as we cruised. They even had to send out a letter requesting passengers from dismantling the ship. People especially wanted the HAL emblem with the Half Moon that are in front of most staterooms. So sorry that she couldn’t make it as the last Norwegian Cruise was really special. As was the Antarctica and South Georgia Island especially as we were allowed to go a short on the most perfect day you could have requested.

[cruisemom42]

4 hours ago, DeepWaterMariner said:

Interesting pictures.  I sailed on the ship in a pre-Prinsendam design, when she was the Seabourn Sun, and several times in her Holland America design.  Sorry to see her go, but this is the fate of aging cruise ships.  

 

Phoenix Reissen obviously doesn't agree. They are putting a substantial amount into her. It seems from other comments on this thread that they already have another ship of her lineage, so perhaps they realize there is a market for a well-designed, well-built smaller vessel. However, they don't have mass-market pressure.

 

All the same, I am happy rather than sad to see the photos -- I'd much rather see the Prinsendam nicely launched into her second (third?) life than headed for the breakers....

[Hawaiidan]

11 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I think the cost of building a new small ship would be prohibitive -- it would require much higher per diem rates than HAL could likely command. That's the reality. .

Totaly agree  different economic  market foreign to HAL's demographic

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, sammiedawg said:

Not many of their customers go back and forth to the mass markets but many alternate the premium and luxury lines.   

Trying something different is good.   

 

 

Actually I've read quite a few posts from folks who cruise HAL and also Viking or Oceania or even Crystal and Seabourne. I don't know if it happens with other mass-market lines, as HAL is about the only one I follow anymore. But I read it here and I read it on the premium and luxury brand boards. 

 

Trying something different IS good. I agree and have four cruises booked over the next couple of years: HAL, Celebrity, Crystal and Oceania. 

[TiogaCruiser]

11 hours ago, Texgal13 said:

We were on her Jan-Mar this year and bath is the same except for shower curtain!

Same here. But I recognize that shower curtain.