NZ Demanding Phone/Tablet passwords !

[vozzie]

Forget ESTA issues... NZ now require you to hand over your passwords on request. Some say it's okay because they only seek phone information from "suspect" persons. However, that "suspect" person may have some of my personal information on their phone/tablet...which I haven't given permission to be seen or released. It's also not a very large stretch of the imagination to believe that unscrupulous Customs Officials might have an interest in my bank information etc. Insider crime is not unknown. NZ first...who's next ?

 

News Story

Edited July 22, 2019 by vozzie

[Brisbane41]

There is no way I would be giving anyone a password I use regardless of the circumstances. Passwords are personal and protect private accounts like bank accounts, emails, health and many other things you need to keep private. Once another person knows your password then they can build a profile of you and work out how you create passwords and have access to all your accounts.

 

I would be more than happy to open my my mobile to show I have no documents I should not have but as for the password and ways I protect my privacy they will not be getting that information. Fair enough they only target suspicious people but the fact still remains they can choose to do a totally random search at any time.

 

I have done too much of New Zealand to avoid the country, needless to say it will not be high on my list to visit and it has done nothing to make it more desirable.

[The_Big_M]

A sign of things to come.

 

Parts of China require you to install an app on your phone so they can verify the contents. The US requires some applicants to similarly provide social media account access. And they're just the publicised ones. Go to smaller countries and they may have their own procedures below the radar that you are required to comply with.

[NSWP]

Not the best strategy to generate more Kiwi Tourism.😯  Some airports around the world have a history of corruption amongst their workers, not only the baggage handlers.   Customs Officers at Sydney Airport have been found corrupt over the decades.

 

This personal information could be passed onto crime syndicates by corrupt border security staff in NZ.

 

This is potentially dangerous ground.

Edited July 23, 2019 by NSWP

[Docker123]

The interesting and different part is the fine.

 

As I understand, Australian Border Force can ask for examine devices without a warrant. They can ask for passwords. They can confiscate the device if you won’t give the password. Then they will try and break in.

 

[flick_au]

I am curious about the repercussions here with devices which are business/work devices with content that is governed by professional confidentially regulations, privacy legislation etc. I know I have worked for companies and agencies where my work devices which have embargoed and confidential email's and documents on them required me signing agreements that I would not let anyone access the device. 

Edited July 23, 2019 by flick_au

[kerryincork]

This is done in the US all the time. I have read dozens of reports about US citizens and foreign nationals having their phones and laptops (even work ones) threatened with jail of expulsion unless they hand over their phone details.

[GUT2407]

1 hour ago, Docker123 said:

The interesting and different part is the fine.

 

As I understand, Australian Border Force can ask for examine devices without a warrant. They can ask for passwords. They can confiscate the device if you won’t give the password. Then they will try and break in.

 

Correct.

 

if I was a conspiracy theorist I’d wonder if terrorist attacks were orchestrated to giv3 goats more power to follow what their people do.

[Peterpatter]

My take on this is that if you have nothing to hide there is no issue

secondly if it keeps us safe there is no issue

thirdly I support increased vigilance to achieve the second objective

Sometimes it helps to

know who the bad guys are

We need to support those who are doing everything they can to keep us safe

If you are paranoid about privacy the moment you operate a mobile phone or social media - YOU FORFEIT YOUR RIGHT TO PRIVACY YOUSELF

TRUE ENOUGH GUT ???

[MicCanberra]

16 hours ago, GUT2407 said:

Correct.

 

if I was a conspiracy theorist I’d wonder if terrorist attacks were orchestrated to giv3 goats more power to follow what their people do.

I am all for restricting the power of goats, they really can be quite gruff at times.

[SinbadThePorter]

9 hours ago, Peterpatter said:

My take on this is that if you have nothing to hide there is no issue

secondly if it keeps us safe there is no issue

thirdly I support increased vigilance to achieve the second objective

Sometimes it helps to

know who the bad guys are

We need to support those who are doing everything they can to keep us safe

If you are paranoid about privacy the moment you operate a mobile phone or social media - YOU FORFEIT YOUR RIGHT TO PRIVACY YOUSELF

TRUE ENOUGH GUT ???

 

My take on this is that nobody is an angel. Everybody has something about themselves that would upset them if it were to be publicly known, be it medical conditions, court cases, embarrassing former spouses, etc, etc.

 

Secondly, is this just another example of security theatre?

 

Thirdly, where is the evidence that this is does anything to make the general public safer?

 

It's true that privacy is a thing that is given away too easily these days. It may be the case that on social media we give away our right to privacy, but we do so to a corporation, not the government. That is something we choose to do, not that we are forced to do. There is a difference.

 

As for mobile phones, so long as people are not engaged in illegal activity, why shouldn't they call whoever they want whenever they want, in privacy? If the government has cause to know more they can get a court order, just as they have done for the more than 100 years of the copper telephone system.

 

We should never forfeit the right to privacy on grounds as specious and self-serving as these.

[MicCanberra]

I have nothing to hide but that doesn't mean I want everything public either.

[lyndarra]

My take on this is that customs officials have no interest whatsoever in one's personal, interests, foibles or fetishes - unless it involves something like pornography, especially involving children. Once upon a time your luggage could be searched for illicit CDs but who uses them nowadays? Phones now can easily accommodate what CDs once did.

Let them search away.

[Brisbane41]

10 hours ago, Peterpatter said:

My take on this is that if you have nothing to hide there is no issue

secondly if it keeps us safe there is no issue

thirdly I support increased vigilance to achieve the second objective

Sometimes it helps to

know who the bad guys are

We need to support those who are doing everything they can to keep us safe

If you are paranoid about privacy the moment you operate a mobile phone or social media - YOU FORFEIT YOUR RIGHT TO PRIVACY YOUSELF

TRUE ENOUGH GUT ???

 

I am happy to show them in my phone but under no circumstances will I be handing over my passwords or the type of passwords I use.

 

Would you give a total stranger your password?

 

Bear in mind that passwords can be used to access bank accounts.

[icat2000]

Germany asked me to turn my laptop on when going through Security. Took so long and my connecting Paris flight was calling .. You cannot rush the Germans cause if you do they take twice as long.

 

 

Edited July 24, 2019 by icat2000

[Peterpatter]

Sorry about the caps lock before - I was distracted by a glass of red. I guess what I mean is that the world has changed forever whether we like it or not and we will need to endure some imposts that we are not accustomed to, especially as Australians and Kiwi's. Sometimes it may appear to be an invasion of privacy when really it has become necessary due to increased risk.  I think the benefit outways the risk. I, like Lyndarra have no problem with this.

Is there anyone out there that objects to security scrutiny at airports to minimise risk to passengers? Cruise ships ?

I didnt think so. If you have ever watched border security it is standard procedure to screen mobile phones to assist in the evaluation of the true intentions of suspect visitors e.g bona fide tourist or if you have made arrnagements to work and stay illegally or engage in criminal activity. I assume the only password they need is to unlock the phone. If you dont agree you are on the first plane out.  I doubt we will ever return to the blissful innocence some of us are old enough to have experienced,

[The_Big_M]

I'm still curious what the specific requirements are for the original post. I'm sure it's not the case that everyone going through immigration is told "Give us all your passwords" before they're let through.

 

So that then leads to it only being for investigation of certain matters, which is par for the course with most investigations. I'm certainly not of the view that people should just enter any country as they feel like, without any checking and hence requests may be made for certain things.

 

Of course, you may decline, but then you also don't get to enter the country. That's just the way things go. But for a whole variety of reasons it's not going to be a standard or common request, so most people won't even experience it.

[NSWP]

22 hours ago, Docker123 said:

The interesting and different part is the fine.

 

As I understand, Australian Border Force can ask for examine devices without a warrant. They can ask for passwords. They can confiscate the device if you won’t give the password. Then they will try and break in.

 

Big Brother is already here then, best accept it and wear it.🤨Them's the rules, I had a lot to do with Sydney Airport Security issues in my previous life.  Times change and we have to change with it.  As long as any information given is made secure.

Edited July 24, 2019 by NSWP

[kiwimeggles]

There must be reasonable suspicion of criminal activity for them to ask to view your phone. You will be subject to an interview prior to being asked to access your phone. I guess they will view your phone if the offending criminal material is electronic in nature. Nz customs have had the ability to search electronic devices since the late 90s. They just updated the customs legislation to expressly include the password statement but they have always had that power. I think customs stats say less than 1000 devices were searched in 2017, out of approx. 15 million visitors to NZ. As many people have stated this legislation is in line with Australia & US. I have never been asked when entering NZ. I get pulled aside by both border force and NZ customs for carrying too many electronic devices (2 phones, tablet,kindle and work laptop) but neither have asked for password. 

[vozzie]

It's the un-intended consequences that bothers me. For instance, commercial-in-confidence material, as mentioned earlier...or, for instance, I buy something from Mr X on Ebay. Mr X then draws the attention of Border Force on his next trip. They examine his phone/laptop. My purchase information is on it...and is now public...through no fault of my own. Not only that....my name could be now associated with Mr X...in some database.

[MicCanberra]

I get your point, but if Mr X was a criminal and they looked into his records here, chances are they would get that data anyway.

[lyndarra]

3 hours ago, vozzie said:

It's the un-intended consequences that bothers me. For instance, commercial-in-confidence material, as mentioned earlier...or, for instance, I buy something from Mr X on Ebay. Mr X then draws the attention of Border Force on his next trip. They examine his phone/laptop. My purchase information is on it...and is now public...through no fault of my own. Not only that....my name could be now associated with Mr X...in some database.

You're kidding, right? Or extremely paranoid. You mean I should be concerned about who I have dealt with in over 2000 Ebay transactions. How will I ever get to sleep tonight.

[Porky55]

NSWP is Correct about Aus as well as NZ (and lots of others), brave new world - or time to leave our phones etc at home 😳

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-10-08/if-a-border-agent-demands-access-to-your-digital-device/10350762

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by Porky55

[MicCanberra]

I don't even have one anymore. I gave it up a few years ago.

[ilikeanswers]

 If you really are concerned about handing over passwords one suggestion is before you go through security uninstall all the apps you wouldn't want a stranger looking at and then you can reinstall them once you are on the other side. In terms of files on the phone, store them in a cloud account and delete the in phone copies. You can re-download them from the cloud account after security.

 

 

Edited July 26, 2019 by ilikeanswers