Am I Violating the Jones Act?

[gerelmx]

I thank all your comments, this is the status of my problem.

Since I booked the trip, December 12 2017, I already knew about the Jones law and I was aware that I wasn't violating it.

I am with my hands tied, if I speak to Celebrity they don't listen to me, they tell me "you book with a travel agent talk to him", the person in Celebrity who received the memo refuses to escalate the problem or my TA is lying and doesn't want to do it. My last chance was an email that I wrote to One Touch waiting for the problem to be solved, I still haven't received an answer.

 

The Plan B proposed by Celebrity is already underway, my TA has already requested late boarding in Victoria, I have already booked the Victoria Marriott Inner Harbour Hotel and the transfer from Canada Place to the hotel (BC Ferries Connector-Viator), also already I was investigating what places to visit and where to go to eat, seeing it from the other side I am happy because I will be more time in Victoria, what annoys me is how the facts are happening, the inconvenience that this is causing me, and this is going to have its consequences.

 

I will write again when I receive the reply to my email.

[TeeRick]

3 minutes ago, gerelmx said:

I thank all your comments, this is the status of my problem.

Since I booked the trip, December 12 2017, I already knew about the Jones law and I was aware that I wasn't violating it.

I am with my hands tied, if I speak to Celebrity they don't listen to me, they tell me "you book with a travel agent talk to him", the person in Celebrity who received the memo refuses to escalate the problem or my TA is lying and doesn't want to do it. My last chance was an email that I wrote to One Touch waiting for the problem to be solved, I still haven't received an answer.

 

The Plan B proposed by Celebrity is already underway, my TA has already requested late boarding in Victoria, I have already booked the Victoria Marriott Inner Harbour Hotel and the transfer from Canada Place to the hotel (BC Ferries Connector-Viator), also already I was investigating what places to visit and where to go to eat, seeing it from the other side I am happy because I will be more time in Victoria, what annoys me is how the facts are happening, the inconvenience that this is causing me, and this is going to have its consequences.

 

I will write again when I receive the reply to my email.

You have generated a lot of discussion on this somewhat complicated topic and we are all learning here.

[cruisestitch]

Yes, please keep us posted -- we are on your side on this issue!

 

And having a "Plan B" is always a good idea.

[hcat]

Thanks for keeping us posted!

There are some very nice tours of Victoria.. avoids traffic snarls when ships are in and hits many highlights.

 

Things I remember are the Bouchart  Gardens  which are amazing although .a bit distant from the pier, a  visit to a  nice winery for wine and chocolate, interesting Chinatown we passed through. Many awesome looking restaurants.

 

.We did not have enough time to visit the historic hotel for tea or explore the area near there. .but looked lovely!

 

 

Hope you do not let all this ruin your vacation....Your TA and X should give you some major comps/ rebates...They should have been  aware of the laws they now claim you violated at the time they let your booking go through! MAJOR FAIL by them!

[cruisestitch]

Whoever booked it initially did so correctly -- some lackey in an office somewhere has now made a mistake, and the OP is bring inconvenienced in a major and pricey way!

[theminnow]

On 8/1/2019 at 5:19 PM, gerelmx said:

I'm on a B2B2B booked since December 2017 and paid in full the 3 legs. Ship Celebrity Eclipse

1st Leg Sept 22 Vancouver to Honolulu

2nd Leg Oct 3 Honolulu to Vancouver

3rd Leg Oct 13 Vancouver to Los Angeles

 

My TA just receive a email from Celebrity with a note that the Jones's law is violated.

 

This is the head of the email

I hope you are very well in your daily work, the reason for this email is to notify you that bk 3^rd leg is violating Jones law, because passengers would be arriving from Honolulu in bk bk 2^nd leg on October 13, and that same would be leaving for Los Angeles, California. Because the cruise ship would be sailing from a port that belongs to another country, that's when Jones's law is violated. etc etc-

 

They are not taking into account the first leg, Why do they do this to me after 2 years of having booked my vacations and have already paid 100% of the 3 cruises?

 

Just a suggestion, Celebrity Cruises President and CEO Lisa Lutoff-Perlo will be checking in periodically on the Celebrity forum to answer questions. Why not ask your question there as well and ask for a name and number of someone at Celebrity to discuss this matter with.

Good luck.

 

 

[lovecruzin]

2 hours ago, theminnow said:

Just a suggestion, Celebrity Cruises President and CEO Lisa Lutoff-Perlo will be checking in periodically on the Celebrity forum to answer questions. Why not ask your question there as well and ask for a name and number of someone at Celebrity to discuss this matter with.

Good luck.

 

 

Or so we’re told! Sorry couldn’t resist!

That is an excellent suggestion.

Edited August 3, 2019 by lovecruzin

[1025cruise]

Unfortunately for the OP, since they booked with a TA, Celebrity is correct in needing to talk to the TA. That's who the contract is with. 

 

Also unfortunately, they seem to be dealing with "cruise 2 and 3 B2B not allowed no matter what" even though cruise 1 makes it legal.

[varoo]

 

It appears that the OP has an incompetent TA who is either unwilling or unable to resolve this matter correctly.

 

Rather than wasting a lot of money unnecessarily making convoluted arrangements as a work-around, it would be much better for the OP to take the booking away from the inept TA and deal directly with Celebrity instead.

                        

Edited August 3, 2019 by varoo

[hcat]

Could that be done at this point..OP has paid already for all 3 legs

 

TA should initiate a 3 way call with Resolutions Dept.  Hope TA is comping the extra hotel and dinner or refunding any commission 

[npcl]

7 hours ago, gerelmx said:

I thank all your comments, this is the status of my problem.

Since I booked the trip, December 12 2017, I already knew about the Jones law and I was aware that I wasn't violating it.

I am with my hands tied, if I speak to Celebrity they don't listen to me, they tell me "you book with a travel agent talk to him", the person in Celebrity who received the memo refuses to escalate the problem or my TA is lying and doesn't want to do it. My last chance was an email that I wrote to One Touch waiting for the problem to be solved, I still haven't received an answer.

 

The Plan B proposed by Celebrity is already underway, my TA has already requested late boarding in Victoria, I have already booked the Victoria Marriott Inner Harbour Hotel and the transfer from Canada Place to the hotel (BC Ferries Connector-Viator), also already I was investigating what places to visit and where to go to eat, seeing it from the other side I am happy because I will be more time in Victoria, what annoys me is how the facts are happening, the inconvenience that this is causing me, and this is going to have its consequences.

 

I will write again when I receive the reply to my email.

You need a new travel agent.  Have they specifically asked for the resolutions department or just been talking with regular customer service?  All regular customer service can do is go by what their computer says.  You might also try sending an e-mail the the executive level of Celebrity and see if you can get someone involved that can actually examine the situation.

[cachouonacruise]

Thank you very much to all on information regarding the Jones Act and the PVSA. I really learned quite a bit.

 

OP, in my opinion, Victoria is one of the two nicest/favorite cities in Canada ( I am Canadian and visited quite a bit of my country). The afternoon tea at the Fairmount Empress hotel is quite impressive ( yet, it is not cheap. Reservations recommended). Butchart Gardens are beautiful, ( more so in the spring) and they are only about a 30 minute drive from the Inner Harbour.  Another option, would be a whale watching tour from Victoria harbour, which was also a delight. Furthermore, the Victoria Provincial museum located near the Inner Harbour is one of the nicest museum in Canada. Finally, if you are interested in miniatures, Small World, located on the side of the Empress Hotel is worth a visit. At night, the British Columbia Provincial Legislature is all lit and it is quite impressive.

 

Not far from there is also a chocolate factory: Rogers Chocolate! They are famous in Canada! (And quite delicious).

 

In short, what is happening to you is unexpected and no one likes « bad surprises ». This said, this unexpected turn-out can easily be transformed in a unique opportunity. Victoria is the place for that. ( Of note, I loved my experiences at the Victoria Mariott Inner Harbour. It is beautifully located.)

 

Despite the unplanned circumstances, I wish you a great time in Victoria! 

 

 

 

 

[chengkp75]

Just to add to your knowledge, Canada has a similar act to both the Jones Act and PVSA, the "Coastal Trading Act" which limits coastwise traffic between Canadian ports to Canadian vessels.  The restrictions on the vessels is less than the US Acts, but the fines are exponentially higher.

[gerelmx]

2 minutes ago, cachouonacruise said:

Thank you very much to all on information regarding the Jones Act and the PVSA. I really learned quite a bit.

 

OP, in my opinion, Victoria is one of the two nicest/favorite cities in Canada ( I am Canadian and visited quite a bit of my country). The afternoon tea at the Fairmount Empress hotel is quite impressive ( yet, it is not cheap. Reservations recommended). Butchart Gardens are beautiful, ( more so in the spring) and they are only about a 30 minute drive from the Inner Harbour.  Another option, would be a whale watching tour from Victoria harbour, which was also a delight. Furthermore, the Victoria Provincial museum located near the Inner Harbour is one of the nicest museum in Canada. Finally, if you are interested in miniatures, Small World, located on the side of the Empress Hotel is worth a visit. At night, the British Columbia Provincial Legislature is all lit and it is quite impressive.

 

Not far from there is also a chocolate factory: Rogers Chocolate! They are famous in Canada! (And quite delicious).

 

In short, what is happening to you is unexpected and no one likes « bad surprises ». This said, this unexpected turn-out can easily be transformed in a unique opportunity. Victoria is the place for that. ( Of note, I loved my experiences at the Victoria Mariott Inner Harbour. It is beautifully located.)

 

Despite the unplanned circumstances, I wish you a great time in Victoria! 

 

 

Thank you so much, Within the bad is the good, I have been researching the area of James Bay, Beacon Hill Park, etc. It is a very beautiful place.
When I made my New England cruise And Canada I fell in love with the cities I visited, such that I am repeating it in 2020, Canada es bonito. 🙂

[gerelmx]

12 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Just to add to your knowledge, Canada has a similar act to both the Jones Act and PVSA, the "Coastal Trading Act" which limits coastwise traffic between Canadian ports to Canadian vessels.  The restrictions on the vessels is less than the US Acts, but the fines are exponentially higher.

 

Does it affect me in something, which I don't have to do? , I will disembark the Eclipse in Vancouver, move to Victoria by Ferry and board the Eclipse in Victoria

 

Edited August 3, 2019 by gerelmx

[Cruising89143]

1 hour ago, hcat said:

Part snipped.

TA should initiate a 3 way call with Resolutions Dept.  

 

This..........

[chengkp75]

30 minutes ago, gerelmx said:

 

Does it affect me in something, which I don't have to do? , I will disembark the Eclipse in Vancouver, move to Victoria by Ferry and board the Eclipse in Victoria

 

No, I was just giving the poster above mine more information regarding cabotage laws.

[bigbenboys]

We enjoy going up to Victoria for short getaways. The Victoria Marriott Inner Harbor is nice. There are car rentals about a minute away from the hotel. Butchart Gardens is very nice. You really need to see the gardens in all seasons. December is great in the evening with all the lights. Beacon Hill Children's Farm in Beacon Hill Park is fun. I just love the baby goats. Also some of the best views of Mount Baker are from the greater Victoria area.  

[1025cruise]

I really don't understand the advice given to the OP to embark in Victoria. Both Victoria and Vancouver are both in British Columbia. Whoever gave that advice really has no clue. 

 

Again, the OP and their TA need to escalate this to someone who has a clue. 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, 1025cruise said:

I really don't understand the advice given to the OP to embark in Victoria. Both Victoria and Vancouver are both in British Columbia. Whoever gave that advice really has no clue. 

 

Again, the OP and their TA need to escalate this to someone who has a clue. 

While this is not necessary, regardless of the two ports being in Canada, this breaks the cruise into two separate ones.

[cruisestitch]

1025cruise wrote "I really don't understand the advice given to the OP to embark in Victoria. Both Victoria and Vancouver are both in British Columbia. Whoever gave that advice really has no clue. "

 

I think you are misunderstanding the issue.  The fact that they are both in Canada is what makes this proposed solution the correct one if the OP didn't have cruise #1.

 

Without cruise #1 the proposed solution would mean that he would have two separate, not continuous cruises.  There would be one starting in Hawaii and ending in Canada, and a second one starting in Canada and ending in a different US port, thus avoiding the problem of violating the PVSA which disallows travel beginning in one US port and ending in a different US port without visiting a DISTANT foreign port in between.

 

The advice is valid for a cruiser doing only the last to cruises, but not for the OP because he has a preceding cruise which means that he is starting in Canada and ending in the US,

 

[bigbenboys]

3 hours ago, 1025cruise said:

I really don't understand the advice given to the OP to embark in Victoria. Both Victoria and Vancouver are both in British Columbia. Whoever gave that advice really has no clue. 

 

Again, the OP and their TA need to escalate this to someone who has a clue. 

I did mention staying over night in Victoria or Vancouver. This is something I have heard. By staying on land one night breaks it up. All it takes is one person to though a wrench in the whole thing.

Short story. A group of about 5 of us needed to get to Guangzhou China for a meeting quick. This was back in the 1980's. We normally over night in Hong Kong and give or passports to a local. The next morning we would have our visa's to enter China in out passports. We we told to book our flights and not to over night and they would have custom and visa's for us in Guangzhou China. We where on the plane waiting to leave. The pilot came back and told us "If this was not the last flight of the night into Guangzhou China he would have let us fly." He was concerned if the staff were not their we might end up in jail. The pilot got to Guangzhou and was asked where are the American. It just take one person to screw things up.

[varoo]

42 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

While this is not necessary, regardless of the two ports being in Canada, this breaks the cruise into two separate ones.

 

The OP is getting badly ripped off here, in addition to being inconvenienced.

It is really a shame, as they are apparently very nice people.

 

If they should proceed with this ill-conceived plan, they will still be paying for the day and night on the ship that they will be missing,  in addition to incurring the extra unnecessary expenses for the hotel and meals in Victoria plus the transportation to get there.

 

Celebrity is not going to refund them the money for the time on the ship they will miss.

While Victoria is certainly a lovely place to visit, this is not the  way to do  it.

 

Chengkp75, with your extensive background and knowledge in this area, perhaps you can be the one to convince them that what they are planning to do is ill-conceived and not at all necessary.

 

This matter could and should have easily have been resolved on day one, but the roadblock here appears to be their incompetent travel agent.

  

                          

[travelbug4]

Just found a discussion on this subject from back in 2017 on cruisecritic.  So interesting...all of it. 

 

Consensus on that thread (what I read, not my opinion) was that you had to be off the ship for 24 hours (in your case between cruise 2 and 3) or travel on a different ship from Vancouver to LA to not violate the PVSA laws.  Or the plan that they suggested which is to join the ship the next day in Victoria (which I guess fulfills the 24 hour requirement)?

It's rather confusing but definitely an interesting read and might shed further light on your predicament.  I've read through it and am still confused by it.

 

But the fact that they (Celebrity or travel agent) allowed you to book it makes me feel like they should pay for your transportation and overnight accommodations.

 

 

[hcat]

We all agree about the TA and X, but I suspect  OP now just wants to have it work out.   Later must  "insist"  TA and cruise line  come through...I predict each will blame the other and eventually the cruiser..

 

Does Celebrity Official ever post  here anymore?  I am also thinking use of other soc media might catch LLPs attention!