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RKHOOKER

Debit Card Charged Twice

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On 8/10/2019 at 2:14 AM, Noreen411 said:

Hi

 

Sorry to change the topic but your picture of your dog...

Is he/she an Akita?  That is a great picture of a beautiful dog.

 

I had an Akita, Kiki, who passed away a few years ago.  Below is a professional picture we had done when she was a puppy.  

I miss having a dog, especially my Kiki.

 

Noreen

154E79A9-30E6-43DB-B589-835C134BB052.jpeg

 

Nice looking dog.

 

Yes, my pic is of our Akita Max.  Our second male, 4th overall.  Lost him to osteosarcoma.  But from a 4 - 6 month prognosis, he lived 22 months.

 

He was a two time rescue.  He was a pet shop puppy, that people gave up to a kill shelter, even after being contacted by Akita Rescue when the first owners put him up for sale.  He was placed with an older female, then that owner got posted overseas and had to give up both dogs.  He was picked by Blazey, our second female.  To this day, the rescue people talk about the two.  They met, and within a minute, were best buddies.

 

A BIG boy.  He could go 135 pounds if you let him eat too much.

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On 8/9/2019 at 12:59 AM, steveru621 said:

If you at at your credit line (which a lot of people are), credit card bill payments could be declined for the same reasons.

 

Hmm, so you are paying your credit card bills with a credit card??????

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7 hours ago, SRF said:

 

Hmm, so you are paying your credit card bills with a credit card??????

 

 

Nope. lots  of people like me, use their credit card to automatically pay; phone bill, internet bill, cell phone bill, satellite TV bill, Car insurance bill, homeowners insurance. etc...  I get my miles, or cash back or something, and it's free to me. If it's available you are missing out.

 

If you go over your credit line, they will be declined and all the same bad things will happen.  Plus it's unlikely a CC company will pay any late fee incurred by you.  Part of your credit score is balance vs. % of credit lines, so a significant breach could impact your credit score.

 

Not advocating you use either card.  Just saying you need to know your rights, and what Visa and Mastercard will do when you dispute a transaction, they treat Debit and Credit the same.

 

Consumers believe having to show ID is somehow going to protect them.  Visa doesn't allow it, and it's probably THE WORST THING YOU CAN DO.  The merchant now has all your credit card information AND your billing address.  Everything they need to place an Internet order.  Think about it.

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52 minutes ago, steveru621 said:

Not advocating you use either card.  Just saying you need to know your rights, and what Visa and Mastercard will do when you dispute a transaction, they treat Debit and Credit the same.


I'm not sure what you mean by this.... credit card transactions that are disputed are covered by the Fair Credit Billing Act, while debit card transactions are not.  

And neither Visa nor MasterCard have anything to do with the process of investigating a disputed transaction -- it is up to each individual issuing financial institution to handle any investigation.

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6 minutes ago, brillohead said:


I'm not sure what you mean by this.... credit card transactions that are disputed are covered by the Fair Credit Billing Act, while debit card transactions are not.  

And neither Visa nor MasterCard have anything to do with the process of investigating a disputed transaction -- it is up to each individual issuing financial institution to handle any investigation.

 

Not true, All banks must follow Visa/Mastercard/AMEX/Discover Debit rules.  Gives you more protection regardless of what the law says and gives you ZERO liability.  RCI will not accept a Debit card unless it is branded by a major credit card network.

 

When you sign your name using a Visa Debit card it's a different situation.  All disputes are sent through the same system at Visa for Debit and Credit.  Visa has everything to do with working with the merchant.  Say you use your debit card to purchase something from Amazon and it's not delivered.  You call your bank and they create a non-delivery dispute with Visa.  Exactly the same as a credit card.

 

This thread was originally started about RCI.  RCI does not accept a pin POS transaction.

 

Yes, it is different if you use your PIN, but almost all transactions are signature for purchases.  ATM transactions are disputed thru networks and are different.  But Visa owns the PLUS ATM network and Mastercard owns the Cirrus network.

 

I'm done with this.  So many people are misinformed by idiot reporters that have not kept up with Debit network rules.  Yes, you are covered by those laws, but they are secondary to network consumer protection rules which are much stronger.

 

Have a great future cruise.

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51 minutes ago, steveru621 said:

I'm done with this.  So many people are misinformed by idiot reporters that have not kept up with Debit network rules.  Yes, you are covered by those laws, but they are secondary to network consumer protection rules which are much stronger.

 

Have a great future cruise.


Gotta love someone who resorts to schoolground name-calling when someone calls them out on misinformation....

 

 

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1 hour ago, brillohead said:


Gotta love someone who resorts to schoolground name-calling when someone calls them out on misinformation....

 

 

Just point out what I said that was untrue. Sounds like you need to Google what I posted.

 

Reporters on this subject are almost always wrong. Sensational negativity gets them readers true or not. 

 

I'll wait. 

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33 minutes ago, steveru621 said:

Just point out what I said that was untrue. Sounds like you need to Google what I posted.

 

Reporters on this subject are almost always wrong. Sensational negativity gets them readers true or not. 

 

I'll wait. 


So much for being "done with this".  :classic_rolleyes:

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13 hours ago, SRF said:

 

Nice looking dog.

 

Yes, my pic is of our Akita Max.  Our second male, 4th overall.  Lost him to osteosarcoma.  But from a 4 - 6 month prognosis, he lived 22 months.

 

He was a two time rescue.  He was a pet shop puppy, that people gave up to a kill shelter, even after being contacted by Akita Rescue when the first owners put him up for sale.  He was placed with an older female, then that owner got posted overseas and had to give up both dogs.  He was picked by Blazey, our second female.  To this day, the rescue people talk about the two.  They met, and within a minute, were best buddies.

 

A BIG boy.  He could go 135 pounds if you let him eat too much.

He is beautiful (or maybe I should say handsome).  Kiki was female and wasn’t quite that big; maybe 90 pounds at her biggest.

 

Amazing the impact our furry children have on our lives.

 

Noreen

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The OP was from Australasia, the charges happened on a cruise that ended in Indonesia, did the OP ever get a resolution based on Australian Banking laws and what his Australian bank was telling him was the cause. Pretty sure US law doesn't apply here if Australian law is different.

 

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On 8/20/2019 at 1:31 AM, Noreen411 said:

He is beautiful (or maybe I should say handsome).  Kiki was female and wasn’t quite that big; maybe 90 pounds at her biggest.

 

Amazing the impact our furry children have on our lives.

 

Noreen

 

Thank you.  He was such a sweety also.

 

He was our biggest.  Our first, Shina, was around 110 - 115.  Rocky, first male, was 95ish.  The Blazey was about 85.   Daiya, the last one, is a tiny 65 pounds.

 

I am still trying to figure out how a dog can produce a pile of hair, larger then they are, twice a day, for WEEKS. 😄

 

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44 minutes ago, SRF said:

I am still trying to figure out how a dog can produce a pile of hair, larger then they are, twice a day, for WEEKS. 😄


I had always had smaller dogs previously, then I got into Labs more recently (currently have a black and a chocolate).

Another Lab owner worded it like this:  Labs shed twice a year -- for six months at a time! 

 

Akitas are much the same, but at least they LOOK like they'd produce a lot of hair because of their general fluffiness.  Labs look so sleek, you'd never know they had a hair shedding factory hidden away in there.  

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Hi

 

So I tested out changing credit cards mid cruise to see what happened with the holds.

 

We were on a 5 night cruise to Bermuda on Anthem (I have to start working on my review) and when I did online checkin I registered my American Express card.  Checking my Amex app during the cruise, I noticed pending charges after the first day or so.  Later in the trip, I went to guest services and switched my credit card to my Royal Caribbean Visa.  I ended up having two holds on the Royal Caribbean Visa.  I probably should have waited until the next day to switch the cards for my experiment.  When we left the ship the final charge hit the Royal Caribbean Visa.

 

Almost a week after getting off the ship and all the holds on American Express have fallen off.  The two holds on the Royal Caribbean Visa are still there but I’m assuming they will fall off in another day or so.

 

This is probably more useful for a longer cruise, but it was good to see if it worked on the shorter cruise

 

Noreen

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17 minutes ago, Noreen411 said:

Hi

 

So I tested out changing credit cards mid cruise to see what happened with the holds.

 

We were on a 5 night cruise to Bermuda on Anthem (I have to start working on my review) and when I did online checkin I registered my American Express card.  Checking my Amex app during the cruise, I noticed pending charges after the first day or so.  Later in the trip, I went to guest services and switched my credit card to my Royal Caribbean Visa.  I ended up having two holds on the Royal Caribbean Visa.  I probably should have waited until the next day to switch the cards for my experiment.  When we left the ship the final charge hit the Royal Caribbean Visa.

 

Almost a week after getting off the ship and all the holds on American Express have fallen off.  The two holds on the Royal Caribbean Visa are still there but I’m assuming they will fall off in another day or so.

 

This is probably more useful for a longer cruise, but it was good to see if it worked on the shorter cruise

 

Noreen

Thanks for the update Noreen.  This is really good info.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/19/2019 at 10:28 AM, steveru621 said:

 

I'm done with this.  So many people are misinformed by idiot reporters that have not kept up with Debit network rules.  Yes, you are covered by those laws, but they are secondary to network consumer protection rules which are much stronger.

 

Have a great future cruise.

Except the debit network consumer rules can arbitrarily change back to the old standard and you are SOL, and it will be buried in the small print.

 

I will give you an example.

 

Years and years ago, when the ATM networks were first being set up.  A very large bank in Florida went into a Florida ATM network in conjunction with other other Florida banks, plus Publix among other entities.  It was called "Presto".  You could go to each others institutions and withdraw money.  At first there may have been a fee while "out of network" but that was dropped.

 

Years later the large Florida bank was bought by a large national bank.  After several years the large national bank dropped out of the Presto network.  So if you accessed a Presto network ATM, (Publix, other banks atm's) you were charged a fee by the large national bank.  I found this out by accessing a Publix ATM and saw the "additional $3 fee will charged to your bank account", while trying to withdraw money from my bank account.

 

In the last few years, the large national bank has given you 3 or so "free" out of network transactions per month.  However this was their business decision.  They could change  at their whim to meet revenue targets.

 

Visa/Mastercard are also businesses so they can change their debit network card rules as they so desire to meet revenue targets or penetration targets.

Edited by gatour

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56 minutes ago, gatour said:

Except the debit network consumer rules can arbitrarily change back to the old standard and you are SOL, and it will be buried in the small print.

 

I will give you an example.

 

Years and years ago, when the ATM networks were first being set up.  A very large bank in Florida went into a Florida ATM network in conjunction with other other Florida banks, plus Publix among other entities.  It was called "Presto".  You could go to each others institutions and withdraw money.  At first there may have been a fee while "out of network" but that was dropped.

 

Years later the large Florida bank was bought by a large national bank.  After several years the large national bank dropped out of the Presto network.  So if you accessed a Presto network ATM, (Publix, other banks atm's) you were charged a fee by the large national bank.  I found this out by accessing a Publix ATM and saw the "additional $3 fee will charged to your bank account", while trying to withdraw money from my bank account.

 

In the last few years, the large national bank has given you 3 or so "free" out of network transactions per month.  However this was their business decision.  They could change  at their whim to meet revenue targets.

 

Visa/Mastercard are also businesses so they can change their debit network card rules as they so desire to meet revenue targets or penetration targets.

 

Any rule can change including federal law.

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Posted (edited)
21 hours ago, brillohead said:


I had always had smaller dogs previously, then I got into Labs more recently (currently have a black and a chocolate).

Another Lab owner worded it like this:  Labs shed twice a year -- for six months at a time! 

 

Akitas are much the same, but at least they LOOK like they'd produce a lot of hair because of their general fluffiness.  Labs look so sleek, you'd never know they had a hair shedding factory hidden away in there.  

 

Our last, a 65 pound female would do pile of hair 18 - 24" high, TWICE a day.  FOR WEEKS.   NO IDEA where it came from. 😄

 

Akitas come in two versions, dribblers and blowers.  Dribblers shed pretty much all the time.  Blowers shed twice a year, A LOT.

 

Then you have those that dribble, until the blow coat. 😄

 

And you have not seen HAIR, until you have seen a 135 pound Akita blow coat. 😄

Edited by SRF

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3 hours ago, SRF said:

 NO IDEA where it came from. 😄


I swear, it's like they are built like this Play-Doh toy.... it just never stops.  
 

 

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This is how my dilemma ended.

 

RC issued me a letter on the 8th August 2019 titled Holds Release Form.  It basically said that I have settled my account with RC in full & that RC no longer requires any pre-authorised amounts to be held by RC against my debit card and advises my bank to immediately release these amounts as available funds.   I forwarded this on to Citibank & within 24 hours they had removed all RC pending charges from my account.

 

So......... the way Citibank debit card works is.......  the bank has absolutely no control over removing the pending charges applied to the account until 30 days have passed, which is when the bank removes the charges automatically, unless, a letter is provided to the bank from the vendor advising them to remove the charges.

 

My advice to people going on a cruise would be this:-

Set up a cash account & when RC ask you put money on your account or to top up your account, go to the ATM take out some cash & do so.  

If you set up a credit card account RC will effectively charge you twice also, & depending on the bank you use the pending charges will eventually drop off automatically usually between 5 - 30 days after settling the account.  You may end up with a problem when you go to settle the account if you are near your credit limit, or if you need to use the card again before the pending charges drop off.

 

The reason I use a Citibank debit card is because of the following:-

No account fees

No transaction fees

No ATM fees

No currency conversion fees (credit cards in Australia are currently 3%)  

I can activate & deactivate my card via the App at any time

I can set it up to alert me as soon as a transaction takes place

I can use 10 different currencies on the card

 

Unfortunately, as I travel around the world quite a lot, in the past I’ve had my credit cards skimmed & hacked more than a few times. These credit cards are linked to frequent flyer points etc. but they are also linked to all my regular bills (car, house, health insurances; water rates, electricity, telephone, council rates, strata levies, memberships, subscriptions, pay TV,  motorway tolls & the list just goes on), hence, the hassle of cancelling the cards & updating the new cards is extremely time consuming, so I won’t use them overseas if I can avoid it.  I simply prefer to transfer money in & out of my debit card as needed.  It works best for my lifestyle this way.

 

Cheers!!!

 

 

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Thanks RKH for the update.  I have used both Debit and Credit cards on RCCL and have always had holds and have never noticed any discernable treatment of the holds between the cards or the bank.  Perhaps the cards work differently in Australia.

 

I have decided to try the cash account next cruise and settle at the end.  Just a question on that.  On embarkation does cash mean cash or can you make a debit transaction?

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Banzaii,

When I do my online check in I’ll advise RC that I’ll be setting up my account as cash.  On embarkation RC will afford my wife & I a maximum $500 USD each per day cash account (our cruise is 7 days long).  When I get notified by RC that I’ve reached my $500 credit limit, I’ll go to an ATM (preferably in a port) & withdraw the cash & pay them as & when required.  I’m not sure if I’ll try & pay with my debit card....... whether it will be a pending charge or an official transaction, so, most likely wouldn’t risk it.  If they don’t want to store the card details on file maybe I would risk paying them that way as a debit card is in reality cash.  However, we are dealing with RC & things have been proven to be different from ship to ship or cruise to cruise.  But certainly on debarkation I’ll be paying them whatever I owe using my debit card.

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Thanks RKH

I understand the $US500 allowance or extension of credit on a cash account.  My question was if we can pre-load an amount via a debit card on embarkation and have this amount drawn down on before we get to the $US500.

 

That way they wouldn't have the CC or DC number stored and when i settle the cash account, there shouldn't be any holds.  If there is, the amount should the same as actual charge and be removed automatically.

 

Can anyone confirm if this works?

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20 minutes ago, banzaii said:

My question was if we can pre-load an amount via a debit card on embarkation

If you want to do that, simply buy whatever amount of OBC pre-cruise.

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25 minutes ago, banzaii said:

Thanks RKH

I understand the $US500 allowance or extension of credit on a cash account.  My question was if we can pre-load an amount via a debit card on embarkation and have this amount drawn down on before we get to the $US500.

 

That way they wouldn't have the CC or DC number stored and when i settle the cash account, there shouldn't be any holds.  If there is, the amount should the same as actual charge and be removed automatically.

 

Can anyone confirm if this works?

 

Instead of what you describe, just call Royal pre-cruise and add OBC to your account.

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16 hours ago, RKHOOKER said:

If you set up a credit card account RC will effectively charge you twice also, & depending on the bank you use the pending charges will eventually drop off automatically usually between 5 - 30 days after settling the account.  You may end up with a problem when you go to settle the account if you are near your credit limit, or if you need to use the card again before the pending charges drop off.


I've used a variety of credit cards from a variety of banks over the past six years (and I cruised enough to become Diamond in those six years, so a fair number of cruises), and I have NEVER had a hold on my credit card, I've never been "effectively charged twice", I've never had a hold prevent me from using my account elsewhere.

I think this is much ado about nothing, personally....

 

 

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