Am I just a weakling on the Westerdam

[Rosmerta]

Let me first say we loved our Alaskan northbound cruise, the scenery, the crew, fellow passengers but—I have never seen a word posted about the ventilation coming out of the ceiling, hot and cold 24-hours a day—just over our beds. I should have had the beds separated by day two, giving a few inches relief, but I didn’t. By Ketchikan, I had a full blown sinus infection. Am on antibiotics now.

Meanwhile, good friend of mine got the flu on the Westerdam in early July and was led off with all the other sickies and their spouses to a separate train car, sent to a resort to recover for 3 days before Denali.

 Oakman58 in his wonderful Westerdam report from early June ended up at the Denali Clinic from cruise crud https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2677658-westerdam-alaskan-cruisetour-jun-2-13-2019/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-57890076 

So do all the ships in this class have this type of ventilation? Am I the weakest link in our biological cruise-chain. I’m hesitant to book the Volendam for a 35 night Amazon cruise.

 

[MISTER 67]

11 minutes ago, Rosmerta said:

Let me first say we loved our Alaskan northbound cruise, the scenery, the crew, fellow passengers but—I have never seen a word posted about the ventilation coming out of the ceiling, hot and cold 24-hours a day—just over our beds. I should have had the beds separated by day two, giving a few inches relief, but I didn’t. By Ketchikan, I had a full blown sinus infection. Am on antibiotics now.

Meanwhile, good friend of mine got the flu on the Westerdam in early July and was led off with all the other sickies and their spouses to a separate train car, sent to a resort to recover for 3 days before Denali.

 Oakman58 in his wonderful Westerdam report from early June ended up at the Denali Clinic from cruise crud https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2677658-westerdam-alaskan-cruisetour-jun-2-13-2019/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-57890076 

So do all the ships in this class have this type of ventilation? Am I the weakest link in our biological cruise-chain. I’m hesitant to book the Volendam for a 35 night Amazon cruise.

 

We've been on quite a few cruises on various lines that we have come back with nasty colds. I'm wondering if the vents are ever really given a good cleaning.

The good news with having sailed 60 times is that we've never had the Norovirus as you catch that from contact with utensils in the buffet, railings and other things but not the ventilation system, the key there is to use the hand sanitizers.

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by MISTER 67

[Taters]

I've sailed on Westerdam and never got sick or had any problem with fluctuation temps.  The ventilation has nothing to do with it.  It is other sick people spreading airborne germs that are the problem.  You need to wash your hands often and be careful not to touch railings.  The same can be said for any ship.

 

I live in Fairbanks, Alaska, and if going from extreme cold outside (-40) into a warm building (+70) several times a day, every day all winter made a person sick, no one could live up here.

 

My next 2 cruises are on Westerdam and I am really looking forward to it!

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Taters

[Ottawa traveller]

"The good news with having sailed 60 times is that we've never had the Norovirus as you catch that from contact with utensils in the buffet, railings and other things but not the ventilation system, the key there is to use the hand sanitizers. "

 

I have been on the old Ryndam when a cruise was shortened due to a very very serious outbreak of norovirus.  We had lectures on how to keep safe. Unfortunately hand sanitizer found on the ships does not kill viruses.  The real key is to wash your hands frequently and rub them for at least 30 seconds.  Norovirus also sticks to clothes and furniture. I took off my outer clothing as soon as I entered my stateroom and put on the robe. Staff were dousing the tables and chairs in the Lido for 2 to 5 minutes with a disinfectant after every use.  I also tried not to eat anything with my hands such as sandwiches. I did not get sick.

 

[SilvertoGold]

OP:

To answer your question:  the S and  R class ship have that vent over the bed in most cabin classes.

[Oakman58]

Thank you for the kind words about my trip report Rosmerta.  I think the Westerdam needs a good steam cleaning and disinfecting.  Read post number 22 in this thread from CC member Are we there Yet?   https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/2672661-thinking-about-giving-up-cruising/

 

[Jammu2]

This years version of the "cruise crud" was particularly virulent. They evacuated numerous passengers to the hospital in Juneau on our Oosterdam cruise in May.

 

I have caught it the last two cruises. My next cruise I am going to take more precautions. Disinfect the stateroom myself,  bring my own yoga mat, pass on the Thelaso pass, send out the wash frequently, etc.

Edited August 8, 2019 by Jammu2
Spelling etc

[Rosmerta]

Hadn’t seen your other thread, oakman58. Very interesting. Maybe it’s just a particularly bad year with things warming up. I hope everyone in your party is well now.

 

I did clean the room with disinfectant wipes after my friend caught the second-round flu. And we’re pretty constant with the washy-washy every chance we get. 

 

I found the drying fan disturbing until I slept with one of my shawls from the shoulders up to protect me from the air. Thanks for the info on the S and R class ships. Anyway, seems I’m the only one who finds it disturbing.

 

In the Amazon, that fan could be very welcome...maybe.

[igraf]

2 hours ago, Taters said:

I've sailed on Westerdam and never got sick or had any problem with fluctuation temps.  The ventilation has nothing to do with it.  It is other sick people spreading airborne germs that are the problem.  You need to wash your hands often and be careful not to touch railings.  The same can be said for any ship.

 

I live in Fairbanks, Alaska, and if going from extreme cold outside (-40) into a warm building (+70) several times a day, every day all winter made a person sick, no one could live up here.

 

My next 2 cruises are on Westerdam and I am really looking forward to it!

 

 

The dry cold air from the ventilator blowing on one's face all night will make one more susceptible to sinus infections.   I always block the half of the ventilator that blows toward the top of the bed.  I also use a saline nasal spray to moisten my sinuses.

 

igraf

 

 

 

[Rosmerta]

13 minutes ago, igraf said:

 

The dry cold air from the ventilator blowing on one's face all night will make one more susceptible to sinus infections.   I always block the half of the ventilator that blows toward the top of the bed.  I also use a saline nasal spray to moisten my sinuses.

 

igraf

 

 

 

How do you block it, igraf? Does the fix stay in place?

 

I bought saline in Ketchikan but it was too late to prevent—will pack it next time.

[JeffElizabeth]

Never have got a cold from the ventilation aboard ship. I did get a cold from dancing with a woman who had a cold and also being on an airliner. Hope your next cruise is much healthier! Amsterdam and Alaska this September!

[SempreMare]

CDC video on how to wash your hands.

I need to step up my game at this...

 

https://www.cdc.gov/cdctv/healthyliving/hygiene/fight-germs-wash-hands.html

 

 

[SempreMare]

Home » Harvard Health Blog » Preventing and treating colds: The evidence and the anecdotes 

 

Preventing and treating colds: The evidence and the anecdotes
[... Prevention part deleted...]

 

So now you’ve got a cold. What treatments are effective? [...]

 

There is inconsistent evidence showing that zinc lozenges can slightly shorten the duration of a cold by a day or two, though only in adults, and many people will hate the taste or get nauseated from these.  5,7 

Zinc nasal swabs have been associated with sudden loss of the sense of smell (YIKES - I didn't know that!), and so cannot be recommended at all. 

Despite many studies, there is no consistent evidence showing that vitamin C, echinacea, nasal saline irrigation, garlic, or humidifiers help at all.  5,8,10,15

[...]

As far as the items in the “cough and cold” aisle of your local pharmacy, decongestants (such as phenylephrine or pseudoephedrine**)  as well as decongestant-antihistamine combos have been shown to alleviate cold symptoms.  5,16,17,18  (**My Walgreens pharmacist told me these 2 decongestants also temporarily raise blood pressure)

[...]

One other prescription product of iffy effectiveness is nasal ipratropium, which has some effect on nasal runniness, but not on congestion. So, you’d be wiping your nose less, but still stuffy.19 Probably not worth the copay. And nasal steroids don’t help here at all.20

[...]

What else might work? One thing that we use a lot in our family but has not been extensively studied is those menthol- or camphor-based rubs and inhalants. You know, like your mother used to slather all over your throat and chest and made you and your entire room smell like a eucalyptus tree. There’s been exactly one study on this, involving only 138 children, but there was a significant improvement of symptoms and quality of sleep.21

 

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/preventing-and-treating-colds-the-evidence-and-the-anecdotes-2017011210972

=== Zinc

 

From one of the footnote studies:

SELECTION CRITERIA:
Randomised, double-blind, placebo-controlled trials using zinc for at least five consecutive days to treat, or for at least five months to prevent the common cold.
[...]
13 therapeutic trials (966 participants)
Intake of zinc is associated with a significant reduction in the duration and severity of common cold symptoms. 

[...]

AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS:
Zinc administered within 24 hours of onset of symptoms reduces the duration and severity of the common cold in healthy people. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21328251

=== Vitamin C

Vitamin C for preventing and treating the common cold.

Thirty trial comparisons involving 11,350 study participants

AUTHORS' CONCLUSIONS:
The failure of vitamin C supplementation to reduce the incidence of colds in the normal population indicates that routine mega-dose prophylaxis is not rationally justified for community use. 
[ I thought this final statement was interesting...]
But evidence suggests that it could be justified in people exposed to brief periods of severe physical exercise or cold environments.
[ referencing... ]

A subgroup of six trials involving a total of 642 marathon runners, skiers, and soldiers on sub-arctic exercises [...]
A consistent benefit was observed, representing a reduction in cold duration of 8% and 13.6%  for children

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17636648

Edited August 8, 2019 by SempreMare

[SeaDog-46]

All the Vista class have the AC vent over the double bed in ocean view & balcony cabins.

It is a design fault.

On P&O UK's Arcadia - another Vista - an elderly lady doing the world cruise was put ashore with the family & died in hospital in Mexico.  Last I heard it was going to court.  Every world cruise passengers get the Arcadia cough.

Have done 14 day cruise on Noordam & 28 day cruise on Westerdam.

Fixed vent with 2 inch clear tape so it did not blow to wall behind or side of bed. No drought onto bed & did not get any trouble on either cruise.

[Oakman58]

7 hours ago, Rosmerta said:

Hadn’t seen your other thread, oakman58. Very interesting. Maybe it’s just a particularly bad year with things warming up. I hope everyone in your party is well now.

 

I did clean the room with disinfectant wipes after my friend caught the second-round flu. And we’re pretty constant with the washy-washy every chance we get. 

 

I found the drying fan disturbing until I slept with one of my shawls from the shoulders up to protect me from the air. Thanks for the info on the S and R class ships. Anyway, seems I’m the only one who finds it disturbing.

 

In the Amazon, that fan could be very welcome...maybe.

 

LOL, I'm not surprised you hadn't seen that other thread I linked to.  I posted it in the 55+ Cruisers subforum.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Ask the front desk to send a mechanic to the cabin and have the vent closed.  That should keep the air from hitting your faces.

[terrydtx]

My wife and I both came back from our Noordam cruise land tour with colds, it had nothing to do with the ships ventilation system. We had 5 days on land after the cruise and we came down sick the last day after being on buses and trains with so many coughing and sniffling  people. Our train ride to Denali (8 hours) sounded like a hospital ward with all the coughing going on. After we got off the ship we never saw anymore hand sanitizer stations including the trains. We did see a few in the Hotel lobbies.  Last year I came home from a two week Perillo Italy land tour with a sever sinus infection that went through our whole group on the bus.

 

HAL does a good job of providing hand sanitizing stations all over the ship, but from my observations I would say less than half use them when entering or exiting the dinning venues. Proper hand sanitation can help stopping the spread of germs while on the cruise, but only if it used by all. 

[Serious Cruisers]

for those of us prone to sinus infections - all the hand washing in the world will not help this issue.

 

80% of the time I will get a sinus infection on a cruise or hotel room when the air conditioning vent is over the bed.  Its full of dust and dust is the worse thing for us.  The cold air and dust will enter our nose and thus the infection begins.

 

Now i get my Dr to prescribe an Rx so that if it does start on the cruise I can start meds right away rather than when returning home some 15 days later.

 

 

[*Miss G*]

5 hours ago, terrydtx said:

from my observations I would say less than half use them when entering or exiting the dinning venues.

 

If it helps you, at all, I never use those sanitizers because I have just washed my hands thoroughly before entering any dining venue.

[catl331]

17 hours ago, Rosmerta said:

So do all the ships in this class have this type of ventilation? Am I the weakest link in our biological cruise-chain. I’m hesitant to book the Volendam for a 35 night Amazon cruise.

All the Vista ships (e.g. Westerdam) have the vent blowing air at the bed all the time.  We've never been on the Volendam, but have been on the R-class Amsterdam (same as Volendam) twice and don't recall having the same problem.

14 hours ago, Rosmerta said:

How do you block it, igraf? Does the fix stay in place?

DH brings masking tape and tapes up a baffle on three sides of some heavy-stock paper that they've left, so that all the air flow is directed toward the foot of the bed.

[terrydtx]

57 minutes ago, *Miss G* said:

 

If it helps you, at all, I never use those sanitizers because I have just washed my hands thoroughly before entering any dining venue.

So I guess you do not worry about anything you may have touched and picked up between the place you washed your hands and the dinning venue?  Or anything you touched while eating or getting served? This is why the hand sanitizers are there. I saw on our last cruise passengers picking up glasses and coffee cups in the Lido and then putting them back on the service tray, if those people had anything on their hands they have then transferred it to the next person using them. Even though there are very few self serving Lido stations they still have tongs for taking bread and other items that could be contaminated by unclean or unsanitized hands.

[*Miss G*]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

So I guess you do not worry about anything you may have touched and picked up between the place you washed your hands and the dinning venue?  Or anything you touched while eating or getting served? This is why the hand sanitizers are there. I saw on our last cruise passengers picking up glasses and coffee cups in the Lido and then putting them back on the service tray, if those people had anything on their hands they have then transferred it to the next person using them. Even though there are very few self serving Lido stations they still have tongs for taking bread and other items that could be contaminated by unclean or unsanitized hands.

 

There is no need to be rude to me.  I was not rude to you.  I also don’t jump to conclusions and make assumptions.

 

As it happens I am very aware of germs and what I choose to touch and how.  I have to be.  I avoid the Lido like the plague.  If I am entering that area it is to usually walk straight through to/from the exterior or the elevators.  Hand sanitizers also come in pocket and packet size.  The HAL sanitizers are just another source.

[kazu]

2 hours ago, terrydtx said:

I saw on our last cruise passengers picking up glasses and coffee cups in the Lido and then putting them back on the service tray, if those people had anything on their hands they have then transferred it to the next person using them

 

I’ve seen that too and at the time we did have Noro.

 

All you have to do is tell the server in charge of the area.  You will be amazed how fast they remove all the trays of glasses and coffee cups (or whatever was touched) and bring out new ones.

 

 

 

 

[kazu]

So on the topic of trying to avoid the germs - aside from hand washing, building up your immunity system doesn’t hurt.  My friend told me about oregano.  I start taking the pills before we go and take the drops in case.  

It’s worked for me, so far.  Just another homeopathic remedy from centuries ago 😉 

[cruisequeen4ever]

I live in Anchorage and spent the day downtown yesterday, having read this thread the day before. Oh my goodness, sickness abounded with the cruise pax; so many people were coughing and/or talking about being sick! They could have been from any cruise line, but clearly there is some sickness going around on the AK cruises/cruisetours. I’m thankful my Princess AK cruise in June was a pretty healthy one.