The Future of big sailing cruise ship - What does Windstar think?

[dandee2]

Just saw this article in a French maritime news. Sterling Design Internation working on developping another type of cruise sailship. That would be the second design firm offering such product in the last few months, the other being STX with its silentseas prototype. Wondering if WS will eventually get a newbuilt like those. However, with the work to increase the size of the triplets, that would be still years away.

https://www.meretmarine.com/fr/content/face-aux-enjeux-environnementaux-sdi-mise-sur-les-paquebots-voile

 

[milepig]

1 hour ago, dandee2 said:

Just saw this article in a French maritime news. Sterling Design Internation working on developping another type of cruise sailship. That would be the second design firm offering such product in the last few months, the other being STX with its silentseas prototype. Wondering if WS will eventually get a newbuilt like those. However, with the work to increase the size of the triplets, that would be still years away.

https://www.meretmarine.com/fr/content/face-aux-enjeux-environnementaux-sdi-mise-sur-les-paquebots-voile

 

 

At 180 cabins, that would be 360 pax, so about the size of the surf, which holds 310. I personally find the Surf already too big and that it can lack the same personal attention.

 

Everything I've always heard from captains, is that the sailed ships were likely to be the last ever built and to do so now would be massively expensive. IIRC, the builder in le Havre got huge amounts of incentives from the government as the work kept the ship builder open that the staff employed. I also don't now how true that is.

[O2B@Cagain]

In a conversation with an officer on our last cruise, he basically said that the days of small ships are over. 😥

They are too expensive to run.

[ducklite]

24 minutes ago, O2B@Cagain said:

In a conversation with an officer on our last cruise, he basically said that the days of small ships are over. 😥

They are too expensive to run.

Not as long as people are willing to pay for them.  I think that most people who cruise Windstar would be willing to up the ante to a degree.  Otherwise I think many of us would just go land based or river cruises.

[milepig]

21 minutes ago, ducklite said:

Not as long as people are willing to pay for them.  I think that most people who cruise Windstar would be willing to up the ante to a degree.  Otherwise I think many of us would just go land based or river cruises.

 

As evidence, here's just one example. A ship Seabourn has coming online in 2021 - 264 pax:

 

https://www.cruisemapper.com/ships/Seabourn-Venture-2121

 

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

4 hours ago, milepig said:

 

As evidence, here's just one example. A ship Seabourn has coming online in 2021 - 264 pax:

 

https://www.cruisemapper.com/ships/Seabourn-Venture-2121

 

Not sure what this proves.  (a) It's an ice-rated expedition ship, not a luxury cruise ship.  (b) It has about twice as many passengers as SeaDream's existing ships – in line with the overall trend for each new generation of ships to be larger than that line's previous ones.

[milepig]

9 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

Not sure what this proves.  (a) It's an ice-rated expedition ship, not a luxury cruise ship.  (b) It has about twice as many passengers as SeaDream's existing ships – in line with the overall trend for each new generation of ships to be larger than that line's previous ones.

 

In a conversation with an officer on our last cruise, he basically said that the days of small ships are over.

 

I was responding directly to this - I have no idea how SeaDream became part of the discussion.

 

Within 2 minutes I found an example of a cruise line which is committing to a ship very similar to what their current profile is - certainly well within the "small ship" band. The exactly opposite of what the person quoted said. If they're building it they must have decided it will be profitable.

[Host Jazzbeau]

24 minutes ago, milepig said:

 

In a conversation with an officer on our last cruise, he basically said that the days of small ships are over.

 

I was responding directly to this - I have no idea how SeaDream became part of the discussion.

 

Within 2 minutes I found an example of a cruise line which is committing to a ship very similar to what their current profile is - certainly well within the "small ship" band. The exactly opposite of what the person quoted said. If they're building it they must have decided it will be profitable.

 

Oops, that came from my reading the article linked to by milepig about Seabourn, which mentions that the new Seabourn ship is similar in design to Sea Dream's new ship – and then I went down that rabbit hole and forgot where I was.  

[O2B@Cagain]

Maybe he meant the days of small ships are over..for Windstar. I dunno

[ridethetide]

14 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

Oops, that came from my reading the article linked to by milepig about Seabourn, which mentions that the new Seabourn ship is similar in design to Sea Dream's new ship – and then I went down that rabbit hole and forgot where I was.  

Check out the prices of the upcoming cruises on the SeaDream Innovation.  Fascinating itineraries and a beautiful ship. Very expensive!

[Strenz]

The thrust of the French article was about design. The French government is trying to encourage the building of fuel efficient, sailing vessels. The sizes are up to 180 cabins. They are looking at 3 designs the largest is 180  cabins,  4,400 sq meters of sail,  masts 90 meters high. The goal is to keep their industry alive and to improve the environment. The article was mostly about design and not cost. Of course it would be costly but dreaming is good. I hope WS keeps the sailing ships in good order, we are great fans of them and really like them better than the motor yachts. For us the motor yachts while lovely, they are all similar to other small ship companies and do not offer the uniqueness that  the sailing  ships do for us. 

[wripro]

On 8/15/2019 at 9:26 AM, O2B@Cagain said:

In a conversation with an officer on our last cruise, he basically said that the days of small ships are over. 😥

They are too expensive to run.

Tell that to Seabourn, Crystal ,Scenicm Hapag Lloyd...all of whom are building small expedition ships with 200-300 passengers.

[bplazo]

On 8/16/2019 at 8:04 AM, O2B@Cagain said:

Maybe he meant the days of small ships are over..for Windstar. I dunno

we will not sail with them again when they make the ships bigger.  Our last cruise will be in November.

[milepig]

1 hour ago, bplazo said:

we will not sail with them again when they make the ships bigger.  Our last cruise will be in November.

 

even though with the changes the ships they’re enlarging will still be smaller than the Surf?  And you won’t even give them a chance?  Bye.

[Host Jazzbeau]

3 hours ago, bplazo said:

we will not sail with them again when they make the ships bigger.  Our last cruise will be in November.

 

So, except for expedition ships, your choice will be:  SeaDream I and II (built in 1984 and 1985), Noble Caledonia (3 ex-Renaissance yachts, built in 1991), Ponant (continuing to build luxury yachts of 184 pax), Crystal (planning to build luxury yachts of 200), Scenic (yesterday launched its first luxury yacht of 228), and Ritz-Carlton (planning to build luxury yachts of 298 -- awfully close to the Windstar triplets at their new, unacceptable, capacity of 312).  Please let us know which of these matches up well with Windstar.  [Or did you mean your last cruise ever?]

[bplazo]

22 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

 

So, except for expedition ships, your choice will be:  SeaDream I and II (built in 1984 and 1985), Noble Caledonia (3 ex-Renaissance yachts, built in 1991), Ponant (continuing to build luxury yachts of 184 pax), Crystal (planning to build luxury yachts of 200), Scenic (yesterday launched its first luxury yacht of 228), and Ritz-Carlton (planning to build luxury yachts of 298 -- awfully close to the Windstar triplets at their new, unacceptable, capacity of 312).  Please let us know which of these matches up well with Windstar.  [Or did you mean your last cruise ever?]

We have done star clippers and it was 100 passengers.  

[bplazo]

On 8/17/2019 at 7:17 PM, milepig said:

 

even though with the changes the ships they’re enlarging will still be smaller than the Surf?  And you won’t even give them a chance?  Bye.

bye

[ridethetide]

17 hours ago, bplazo said:

We have done star clippers and it was 100 passengers.  

It is difficult to place Star Clipper in the same category as Windstar. It is a very different experience and lacks the amenities of Windstar.

[Host Jazzbeau]

17 minutes ago, ridethetide said:

It is difficult to place Star Clipper in the same category as Windstar. It is a very different experience and lacks the amenities of Windstar.

 

That's why I hadn't copied those ships from the Berlitz guide into my database.

[bplazo]

4 hours ago, ridethetide said:

It is difficult to place Star Clipper in the same category as Windstar. It is a very different experience and lacks the amenities of Windstar.

What amenities are you talking about?  I don't need a spa, the little casino that has a couple slot machines.  I just need a good book, a chair and the waves.  I actually liked the star clipper ship better than windstar, however, the service was much better on windstar.  Apple was the best bartender and the room steward was also terrific.

[sb44]

The onboard cruise consultant 2 weeks ago said Windstar will build another sailing ship when the expansion of the sisters is completed.  Not that I believe much of what is said at "the talks" but interesting.  They are showing figures that their sales are increasing something like 10% to 15% year over year which sounds about right as we've noticed full ships for the last 4 or 5 cruises. With one ship at a time out of commission for the next 18 months I think prices and occupancy both will go up. We are booking well in advance. 

[dandee2]

Brodosplit is looking at a new buyer for the Flying Clipper LOL

[2LoveToTravel]

One of the Captains told us 2 years ago that Windstar was going to "tear the motor boats apart"  rebuild and enlarge them....and that Windstar was going to build a NEW sailing yacht the size of the Surf. Well, one of the 2 is already happening. Lets see if there will be a "new" Surf on the horizon! 

[dandee2]

Funny now that the Brodosplit shipyard will announce shortly who the new owner of the Flying Clipper will be. Star Clipper did not want to pay extra cost on the ship and removed any information about this ship on their website. It has been sold but to whom?

[Host Jazzbeau]

57 minutes ago, dandee2 said:

Funny now that the Brodosplit shipyard will announce shortly who the new owner of the Flying Clipper will be. Star Clipper did not want to pay extra cost on the ship and removed any information about this ship on their website. It has been sold but to whom?

 

and is it seaworthy?