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Why do you hate HAL so much?

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I believe that there are some people on the forum who believe that if one does not have a place in their heart for HAL ( or any other cruise line for that matter) by definition is a So called HAL hater.

 

Ditto for some who believe that anyone who criticizes their precious HAL is a hater.

 

Just not so.  Perhaps they view a cruise line like any other travel vendor and expect to get what they paid for including the expectations set by the cruise line without the silly excuses or accusations that they have an axe to grind.  No more, no less.

 

Edited by iancal

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14 hours ago, Riversedge said:

 

 

Seriously???  That is funny.  You have no idea how many cruises I have done.

Ok...My bad...How many cruises have you done?  I didn't find my post particularly amusing.

Edited by awhcruiser

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19 minutes ago, awhcruiser said:

Ok...My bad...How many cruises have you done?  I didn't find my post particularly amusing.

 

I found it funny that anyone would say I wasn’t cut out for cruising when I live to be on the water in any way I can. I don’t count cruises.....lots.  

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Let me summarize the discussion for OP.  

 

There are different bands of 'loyalists' One group, 'Remainders' are budget travellers. As HAL go down-market, the 'Remainders' find value with HAL. They're willing to ride HAL downwards to the end.

 

Some of them get annoyed at the complainers. 'Don't they know that you get what you pay for!'

 

The other group 'Exiters' are the loyalists who remember and mourn the classic HAL that is no more. As they exit HAL and Carnival, they're trying to pass on their knowledge to the newcomers.

 

Who are the newcomers? They say that they aren't loyalists. Choose from different companies based on price and itinerary. Hope that HAL make the ships more amenable to them.

 

The newcomers aren't impressed by the Remainders, and vice versa.

 

You know that the end is in sight when those in their 30s are interested in HAL. They're keen on the compact size of the ships and the low prices. And, they can bask in the classy interior. So like a luxury hotel! But, there's got to be VR, or no deal!

They think that HAL is CCL-plus.

 

Hope that I have fairly summed up our discussions. Just a reminder. Change is inevitable. But, not all change is desirable.

 

Always blame management. Never blame the customers.

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15 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

Let me summarize the discussion for OP.  

Time to let it go. 

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56 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

Let me summarize the discussion for OP.  

 

Why?

 

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33 minutes ago, DeeniEncinitas said:

Thank you Ruth!

Denise😊

 

17 minutes ago, awhcruiser said:

Why?

So much for letting it go. 😞

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We have been on several Hal cruises and always enjoy. Take everything in perspective because nothing is flawless !

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4 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

You know that the end is in sight when those in their 30s are interested in HAL. They're keen on the compact size of the ships and the low prices. And, they can bask in the classy interior. So like a luxury hotel! But, there's got to be VR, or no deal!

They think that HAL is CCL-plus.

 

I'm 41, this sounds like us!

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1 minute ago, Mosaic said:

I think that this thread should stay alive for years.....

 

Related image

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NO.  Not when the cutbacks will still becoming for years....

 

It becomes new again.

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Forgive me for a little "tough love" here, but...

 

I started reading these boards about 7-8 years ago mainly to keep my parents updated on their favorite line (they are not online) but gradually have taken some more HAL cruises on my own and have gained a greater understanding/appreciation for the line.

 

During ALL of that time I've read numerous complaints from HAL regulars that things were headed downhill in a hand basket. However, the same can be said of just about every other line -- and I am not even going to say every "mass market" line, because the same things are said on the premium and luxury line boards.*  Food quality has decreased, passenger loads have increased, less is spent on special touches, spaces are being made to earn more money, franchises/partnerships are more common...

 

Change is real, and no amount of whining or opining is going to turn the tide on the larger trends that are shaping "modern cruising".  A majority of people live and dress more casually. Many don't want to dress up for formal nights or have lengthy dinners -- two "staples" of early cruising. (But they do want good food.)  Cunard, Brits and the older demographic aside, a majority also don't care much about dancing. Most want to be 'connected' -- it's not considered a burden or a chore to communicate with others, it's fun and relaxing. These are just a few societal trends. God help us if the trend of treating our pets as family members continues to evolve to the point where we even share cruising with them -- but it could happen.

 

Some things we just have to accept if we want to continue cruising. We are not going to turn the tide on larger ships for mass market lines (and HAL is a mass market line). We cannot protest every single change with shouts of "that's not how it was in the good old days".  What HAS worked is when there has been concerted and concentrated feedback on some specific new initiative that people really hate: for example the "charge for two entrees" fiasco on HAL or the more recent "let's eliminate free in-cabin movies" on Celebrity that was walked back....

 

I think the HAL board would be a much pleasanter place if people would learn to make peace with the current HAL. The line's loyalists do not like any suggestion that they look elsewhere for cruises, but at what point is one simply "enjoying the misery" by complaining about how miserable the current state is making them....yet vehemently refusing any suggestion that they should consider cruising with another line that might offer an experience more like the HAL of old...

 

Nothing is going to be 100% perfect in this world. If you thought the old HAL was -- well, that's partly the effect of nostalgia. A more important question than whether we like the current direction of HAL (or the entirely hyperbolic 'why do we hate HAL so much...') is whether we can live with it.  If not, perhaps it is time to stop making ourselves (and everyone else reading the constant complaints) miserable and find an alternative, on land or sea.

 

==================================================

 

*One differentiator, however, that I have seen between HAL and other boards during this period is that, while other cruise line forums have loyalists who tend to get excited about new directions and new launches (thinking of Celebrity when the Solstice class launched, or the excitement on Royal Caribbean when their gigantemoth ships began coming out....), HAL loyalists have begrudgingly welcomed any new builds, leading to a sort of unrelieved gloom here without much of an air of excitement about the future....

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From our perspective it is all about moving forward.  We are in our late sixties and have cruised on numerous lines.  We do not have enough good years in front of us to spend them pining away about the past, wishing for things that will never be again or things over which we have zero control.

 

When we were younger we decided not to be like some of those older people when we reached that age.  This has served us well in our business lives and in our personal lives. Besides, all businesses have the right to change their model or offerings.  Just as customer have the right to buy elsewhere.

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18 hours ago, Stateroom_Sailor said:

 

I'm 41, this sounds like us!

 

Hey, we'll get our VR soon enough hahahaha

I'm 34 btw. Your comment made me laugh.

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7 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

HAL "cheerleaders" appear to have now morphed into HAL "loyalists" How refreshing 🤓

Refreshing? Supporter - Advocate.  Same - Same 🤣

 

Edited by pete_coach

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2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

Change is real, and no amount of whining or opining is going to turn the tide on the larger trends that are shaping "modern cruising". 

 

Just a reminder. Always blame management. Never blame the customers.

 

Change is inevitable. But, you can 'follow' the trend or choose a different path. For management people, strategy is about the right kind of change. Carnival has 9 brands. RCL has just three brands. Hint!

 

Some of us are waiting for Carnival to do the smart thing, rather than follow the mirage that cost cutting can restore their profitability .

 

It's amazing how some of you guys have been praising Carnival. Completely oblivious to the dire straits of Carnival's operating profitability.

 

RCL has a 6 point advantage in gross margin, even though Carnival has more revenues from premium and luxury brands. Premium brands (HAL and Princess) 37% versus RCL (Celebrity) 25%. Luxury brands (Cunard and Seabourn) 8% versus RCL (Azamara) 4%.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cruise_lines

 

Who do you think needs to make the biggest cuts in value? A gold star for the person with the right answer!

 

BTW, should Carnival try to make up for the 6 points different in GM by cost cutting? It would be cutting value on the way to oblivion. Some of us care enough about HAL to resist the trend.


 

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1 minute ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Just a reminder. Always blame management. Never blame the customers.

 

Change is inevitable. But, you can 'follow' the trend or choose a different path. For management people, strategy is about the right kind of change. Carnival has 9 brands. RCL has just three brands. Hint!

 

Some of us are waiting for Carnival to do the smart thing, rather than follow the mirage that cost cutting can restore their profitability .

 

It's amazing how some of you guys have been praising Carnival. Completely oblivious to the dire straits of Carnival's operating profitability.

 

RCL has a 6 point advantage in gross margin, even though Carnival has more revenues from premium and luxury brands. Premium brands (HAL and Princess) 37% versus RCL (Celebrity) 25%. Luxury brands (Cunard and Seabourn) 8% versus RCL (Azamara) 4%.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_cruise_lines

 

Who do you think needs to make the biggest cuts in value? A gold star for the person with the right answer!

 

BTW, should Carnival try to make up for the 6 points different in GM by cost cutting? It would be cutting value on the way to oblivion. Some of us care enough about HAL to resist the trend.


 

 

I have not been singing Carnival's praises.

 

Resist if you like, but prepare for a future with no HAL at all rather than a 2019 version of HAL. If that's what you prefer, then so be it. Not everyone feels the same.

 

 

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This whole conversation has reminded me of two quotes from one of my heroes, Adm. Grace Murray Hopper:

 
"The most dangerous phrase in the language is, "We've always done it this way.""
and
"A ship in port is safe, but that is not what ships are for. Sail out to sea and do new things."
 
 

 

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HAL’s IT could use a lot more of the Grace Hopper and a lot less of the Dilbert!

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3 hours ago, Copper10-8 said:

HAL "cheerleaders" appear to have now morphed into HAL "loyalists" How refreshing 🤓

Geez ... now we'll all need new uniforms :classic_biggrin:

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1 hour ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

The Loyalists (The Thomas Fleming Library Book 1) by [Fleming, Thomas]

 

 

"I remember the time when I liked a red coat myself very well -- and, indeed, so I do still at my heart."

 

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