Why do you hate HAL so much?

[richstowe]

I will repeat myself as I have on previous threads just like this . These threads , either supporting or denigrating a cruise brand , appear with regularity on CC for each and every cruise line . Each and everyone ! I have only been cruising for a decade but have experienced the 6 biggest brands . And hold on to your hat - They are more alike then different . The ship (mostly based on age), itinerary and cabin category have much more to do with my cruising experience then the brand . 

Secondly in this decade there have been huge changes . Mostly in dining options , new and larger ships and smoking policy . Also new and inventive ways to extract more money from us often by reducing formerly free services . Overall these changes have been positive . This is as true for HAL as any other . In fact it is less so as Holland has been slower to change then others have .This is fine with me . 

 

[johnmik1]

On 9/20/2019 at 7:51 AM, iancal said:

Voting with your feet and with your wallet is, IMHO,the most effective way to send a message to management.   If folks moan and complain constantly about HAL’s change in direction and cuts but continue to sail on their ships what do you think management will do?  How has it worked so far?  

 

I thought so.

That what we did!On our last HAL cruise,they did so many things wrong that I kept looking for the Candid Camera.Our suite balcony was filthy dirty and had paint stains everywhere.We were told to wait half an hour for lunch, as there was a shortage of wait staff.We had to move dirty dishes in the buffet so we had somewhere to eat.On three occasions,we saw friends open up the silverware from the napkins to find dirty forks and knives that was caked with eggs.Numerous buckets collecting water from leaking pipes.One evening show was cancelled because the staff could not figure out the electrical system.We talked to passengers that disembarked a week early rather than complete the cruise.I wrote to HAL who acknowledged their short comings and they offered us onboard credit,four dinners in the Pinnacle Grill and the wine package,if we would return to HAL.That offer went in the garbage.We were vary happy passengers on Hal till Ashford was hired.Never again on HAL under the current leadership.JMHO!

Edited September 21, 2019 by johnmik1

[3rdGenCunarder]

6 minutes ago, johnmik1 said:

That what we did!On our last HAL cruise,they did so many things wrong that I kept looking for the Candid Camera.Our suite balcony was filthy dirty and had paint stains everywhere.We were told to wait half an hour for lunch, as there was a shortage of wait staff.We had to move dirty dishes in the buffet so we had somewhere to eat.On three occasions,we saw friends open up the silverware from the napkins to find dirty forks and knives that was caked with eggs.Numerous buckets collecting water from leaking pipes.One evening show was cancelled because the staff could not figure out the electrical system.We talked to passengers that disembarked a week early rather than complete the cruise.I wrote to HAL who acknowledged their short comings and they offered us onboard credit,four dinners in the Pinnacle Grill and the wine package,if we would return to HAL.That offer went in the garbage.We were vary happy passengers on Hal till Ashford was hired.Never again on HAL under the current leadership.JMHO!

 

Wow! Which ship was this?

 

[SempreMare]

@johnmik1 Wow. What ship and what cruise/ destination?

Edited September 21, 2019 by SempreMare

[johnmik1]

4 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Wow! Which ship was this?

 

It was on Noordam in the spring of 2017 from Sydney to Vancouver.Many guests disembarked early in Honolulu rather than endure another week on the ship.I failed to mention that on the last day I had to use the HAL computer to print our boarding passes and I definitely logged off properly ,as I checked it on my IPad.I had bought a 1000 minute package and had about 100 minutes left.Later that day,the system said that I had no minutes left so I went to passengers services were they said the their system kept me logged in and they could see that I had not been online using the remaining minutes.I politely asked the young lady to replenish the minutes and she refused.When I said that that would be my last HAL cruise after all the other issues she said “We don’t care” and walked away.This was also mentioned in my letter to HAL.Our next HAL cruise would have made us 4 stars mariners.I have been on six cruises since then with two more coming up in the next two months and those will be our 59th and 60th cruises.I can only guess at how much profit HAL will not be getting from us.Time for some serious management changes at what was one a great cruise line!

[Tennessee Titan]

That was 2 1/2 years ago. Why are you coming back NOW to complain???

Unfortunately this does happen; more as a one-off than the norm....

Too late to look at that  Roll Call and see if there were a lot of other complaints...

Edited September 21, 2019 by Tennessee Titan

[johnmik1]

48 minutes ago, Tennessee Titan said:

That was 2 1/2 years ago. Why are you coming back NOW to complain???

Unfortunately this does happen; more as a one-off than the norm....

Too late to look at that  Roll Call and see if there were a lot of other complaints...

I am not coming back now to complain,I am responding to a post of Why do you hate HAL so much and I did post our experience immediately after returning from that cruise!Why do you think that if something did not happen to you,it  didn ‘t happen or doesn’t matter?We were obviously satisfied with the HAL product prior to this cruise but would never attempt to defend any company with limited knowledge of the situation which it appears you are doing!

[kazu]

6 minutes ago, johnmik1 said:

I am not coming back now to complain,I am responding to a post of Why do you hate HAL so much and I did post our experience immediately after returning from that cruise!Why do you think that if something did not happen to you,it  didn ‘t happen or doesn’t matter?We were obviously satisfied with the HAL product prior to this cruise but would never attempt to defend any company with limited knowledge of the situation which it appears you are doing!

 

I totally understand where you are coming from.

We had a very bad experience on O and I won’t risk sailing them again unless it’s nearly free. (Like you - I was GLAD to get off the ship - it was a first for us).

Cruises are not cheap and such a bad experience as you had would definitely put me off risking to sai with l them again.

 

Thank you for coming back and answering.

 

 

[Tennessee Titan]

16 minutes ago, johnmik1 said:

I am not coming back now to complain,I am responding to a post of Why do you hate HAL so much and I did post our experience immediately after returning from that cruise!Why do you think that if something did not happen to you,it  didn ‘t happen or doesn’t matter?We were obviously satisfied with the HAL product prior to this cruise but would never attempt to defend any company with limited knowledge of the situation which it appears you are doing!

Whatever..  30 cruises on Hal, never a experience like THAT! I understand where you are coming from, but to condemn the entire line , and its management, for a single experience is a bit much....

[Donald]

On ‎9‎/‎18‎/‎2019 at 6:30 AM, HappyInVan said:

Let me summarize the discussion for OP.  

 

There are different bands of 'loyalists' One group, 'Remainders' are budget travellers. As HAL go down-market, the 'Remainders' find value with HAL. They're willing to ride HAL downwards to the end.

 

Some of them get annoyed at the complainers. 'Don't they know that you get what you pay for!'

 

The other group 'Exiters' are the loyalists who remember and mourn the classic HAL that is no more. As they exit HAL and Carnival, they're trying to pass on their knowledge to the newcomers.

 

Who are the newcomers? They say that they aren't loyalists. Choose from different companies based on price and itinerary. Hope that HAL make the ships more amenable to them.

 

The newcomers aren't impressed by the Remainders, and vice versa.

 

You know that the end is in sight when those in their 30s are interested in HAL. They're keen on the compact size of the ships and the low prices. And, they can bask in the classy interior. So like a luxury hotel! But, there's got to be VR, or no deal!

They think that HAL is CCL-plus.

 

Hope that I have fairly summed up our discussions. Just a reminder. Change is inevitable. But, not all change is desirable.

 

Always blame management. Never blame the customers.

I don't particularly like HAL (or any other mass market line).

I don't particularly dislike them either - although I would never pay to sail on a HAL ship.

 

But whenever I need a good chuckle, I love to come to this board and read a few posts.

The epic battles that take place between the different factions outlined above are incredibly entertaining.

 

Meanwhile, behind the scenes, HAL quietly continues on its very successful scheme to slowly, gently dump the fixed income oldsters and replace them with younger passengers with deeper pockets.

[kazu]

19 minutes ago, Donald said:

HAL quietly continues on its very successful scheme to slowly, gently dump the fixed income oldsters and replace them with younger passengers with deeper pockets.

 

Hmmm, just because someone is on a fixed income doesn’t mean they don’t have other revenue sources (like investments) nor does it mean they don’t have deep pockets.  If that is the assumption, then there could be a major error in it.

In fact the younger passengers are also on a fixed income usually - it’s called a salary and many of them don’t have investments to dip into. 😉 And, they can only borrow so much and then no longer cruise if their lifestyles are more than their budget can bear.

 

But what do I know? 🙄 I’m just a retired FP who has seen who has the money to spend and who doesn’t, generally speaking 😉 

 

 

[aliaschief]

22 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Hmmm, just because someone is on a fixed income doesn’t mean they don’t have other revenue sources (like investments) nor does it mean they don’t have deep pockets.  If that is the assumption, then there could be a major error in it.

In fact the younger passengers are also on a fixed income usually - it’s called a salary and many of them don’t have investments to dip into. 😉 And, they can only borrow so much and then no longer cruise if their lifestyles are more than their budget can bear.

 

But what do I know? 🙄 I’m just a retired FP who has seen who has the money to spend and who doesn’t, generally speaking 😉 

 

 

👍🏻👏🏻

[Dunelm]

Do you think that misery loves company?   I am beginning to think that this topic is evidence.  Also, I am skeptical these days.  A few people may think that if they complain enough they might just get some kind of monetary recompense, especially while on board.  About five years ago,, we took a walking tour of Cannes.  The French guide was wonderful, but a few people were upset with her because 1) We could not get into the film festival hall (convention going on and not her fault), and 2) we had a long walk, duh?  The next day, the cruise line apologized for the "inconveniences" and reimbursed us, and informed us that the guide would no longer be used.  We immediately went to the excursion desk, told them of our experience, and refused the reimbursement.  We were asked to put our experience in writing, and were later told that the guide had been reinstated.  We were told that we were the only people who refused the reimbursement.  There is a lot of greed in our world.  It seems that people always want more, and that what we experience is never enough. 

[Donald]

40 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

Hmmm, just because someone is on a fixed income doesn’t mean they don’t have other revenue sources (like investments) nor does it mean they don’t have deep pockets.  If that is the assumption, then there could be a major error in it.

In fact the younger passengers are also on a fixed income usually - it’s called a salary and many of them don’t have investments to dip into. 😉 And, they can only borrow so much and then no longer cruise if their lifestyles are more than their budget can bear.

 

But what do I know? 🙄 I’m just a retired FP who has seen who has the money to spend and who doesn’t, generally speaking 😉 

 

 

Preaching to the choir doesn't get you very far.

That idea about fixed income passengers with low spending came directly from Orlando Ashford.

You should write him a letter and straighten him out.

[AmazedByCruising]

42 minutes ago, Donald said:

Meanwhile, behind the scenes, HAL quietly continues on its very successful scheme to slowly, gently dump the fixed income oldsters and replace them with younger passengers with deeper pockets.

 

A luxury restaurant with very expensive and highly profitable diners that also earns a bit serving simple breakfasts in the morning wouldn't stop serving breakfasts. The owner looks at the money earned before noon and is happy. He earned money from people that wouldn't come for dinner anyway. People managing HAL, however, would stop serving breakfast, because profit/pax has gone down since they started serving breakfast. They look less profitable by offering breakfast, and that doesn't help for their bonuses. Carnival itself, however, sees people once loyal to HAL, eating breakfast on an RCL ship. Bringing in money for RCL.  In short, I don't understand why Carnival allows for this scheme to dump people who still make money for them. 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Donald said:

Preaching to the choir doesn't get you very far.

That idea about fixed income passengers with low spending came directly from Orlando Ashford.

You should write him a letter and straighten him out.

 

People who are still working, especially those making big bucks, often have the misconception that retired people are all living ten cents away from being destitute. Just because Mr Ashford believes it doesn't make it true. 

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

A luxury restaurant with very expensive and highly profitable diners that also earns a bit serving simple breakfasts in the morning wouldn't stop serving breakfasts. The owner looks at the money earned before noon and is happy. He earned money from people that wouldn't come for dinner anyway. People managing HAL, however, would stop serving breakfast, because profit/pax has gone down since they started serving breakfast. They look less profitable by offering breakfast, and that doesn't help for their bonuses. Carnival itself, however, sees people once loyal to HAL, eating breakfast on an RCL ship. Bringing in money for RCL.  In short, I don't understand why Carnival allows for this scheme to dump people who still make money for them. 

 

 

Nice analogy!

 

[Ken the cruiser]

1 hour ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

A luxury restaurant with very expensive and highly profitable diners that also earns a bit serving simple breakfasts in the morning wouldn't stop serving breakfasts. The owner looks at the money earned before noon and is happy. He earned money from people that wouldn't come for dinner anyway. People managing HAL, however, would stop serving breakfast, because profit/pax has gone down since they started serving breakfast. They look less profitable by offering breakfast, and that doesn't help for their bonuses. Carnival itself, however, sees people once loyal to HAL, eating breakfast on an RCL ship. Bringing in money for RCL.  In short, I don't understand why Carnival allows for this scheme to dump people who still make money for them. 

 

For us weve moved our breakfast eating habits from HAL over to Princess, so no net loss to Carnival. We like X too, especially in one of their sky suites on a TA, but Princess has a much greater variety of 20-35 day itineraries.

[ChinaShrek]

1 hour ago, Dunelm said:

Do you think that misery loves company?   I am beginning to think that this topic is evidence.  Also, I am skeptical these days.  A few people may think that if they complain enough they might just get some kind of monetary recompense, especially while on board.  About five years ago,, we took a walking tour of Cannes.  The French guide was wonderful, but a few people were upset with her because 1) We could not get into the film festival hall (convention going on and not her fault), and 2) we had a long walk, duh?  The next day, the cruise line apologized for the "inconveniences" and reimbursed us, and informed us that the guide would no longer be used.  We immediately went to the excursion desk, told them of our experience, and refused the reimbursement.  We were asked to put our experience in writing, and were later told that the guide had been reinstated.  We were told that we were the only people who refused the reimbursement.  There is a lot of greed in our world.  It seems that people always want more, and that what we experience is never enough. 

 

People are screwed everyday by nameless, faceless corporations.  If someone can get their "revenge" by getting a little compensation then more power to them.  Big businesses only worry only about profit.  They do not care about their workers or the customers.  If a customer manages to "scam" a company every now and then, what's the harm?

[sail7seas]

8 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

People who are still working, especially those making big bucks, often have the misconception that retired people are all living ten cents away from being destitute. Just because Mr Ashford believes it doesn't make it true. 

 

NOT all of us retired OLDsters, as you put  it are on a fixed income or very tight budget.   Some of us ;lannned well for our retirement and do not have to pinch our pennies.  Sure, anyone with any sense is aware we do not know how long  We will live, what unexpected expenses could present themselves.  So, while  we have funds, we do not throw it around.  Many of us  have what we want and  go/travel when and where we wish.  We planned well and long in advance for our retirement.  The U.S. stock market has been very kind to many  persons, retired and not..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[sail7seas]

12 hours ago, richstowe said:

I will repeat myself as I have on previous threads just like this . These threads , either supporting or denigrating a cruise brand , appear with regularity on CC for each and every cruise line . Each and everyone ! I have only been cruising for a decade but have experienced the 6 biggest brands . And hold on to your hat - They are more alike then different . The ship (mostly based on age), itinerary and cabin category have much more to do with my cruising experience then the brand . 

Secondly in this decade there have been huge changes . Mostly in dining options , new and larger ships and smoking policy . Also new and inventive ways to extract more money from us often by reducing formerly free services . Overall these changes have been positive . This is as true for HAL as any other . In fact it is less so as Holland has been slower to change then others have .This is fine with me . 

 

 

 

For me, when I have sailed other cruse lines,   I have  noticed a real  difference in 'some' of the   service  crew  Too many  bar staff , dining stewards had a styl we found  offensive and a bit sullen.    They (many) paled in comparison to HAL crews, IMO.  Crews are i  very  important to me and because of some RCI  crew, we sailed that line once and never returned.  We sailed Princess about 5 or so cruises  but  again.  we had some negative comments  regarding some of their interaction with gues.ts

 

 When we debarked Pirncess ship the last time we said that would be our last Princess  cruise and, indeed,  it was.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[AmazedByCruising]

9 minutes ago, ChinaShrek said:

Big businesses only worry only about profit.  They do not care about their workers or the customers

 

Of course they care about profit, that's why companies are set up. But if you don't care about customers, you won't have customers. If you don't care about workers, you won't have workers. That's what a company does: try to keep everyone happy, both workers and customers, and only if that works out you might make a profit. A very few (1 in 10 in my country) get to be on that very delicate balance after 5 years, and 9 go bankrupt. You make it seem as if you set up a company, you only need to put a cigar in your mouth, exploit workers and charge customers too much,  and wait for the money to come rushing in. That's not how it works. But you're free to try, that's the good thing.

[AmazedByCruising]

1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

For us weve moved our breakfast eating habits from HAL over to Princess, so no net loss to Carnival. We like X too, especially in one of their sky suites on a TA, but Princess has a much greater variety of 20-35 day itineraries.

 

I didn't mean ALL of Carnival's customers would run away to the competitor, or would stop cruising altogether.

I meant to say that when one more guest on one cruise eventually yields a profit of a single dollar, that's a dollar more in your account, not a dollar for the competitor. 

[AmazedByCruising]

double

Edited September 22, 2019 by AmazedByCruising

[AncientWanderer]

54 minutes ago, sail7seas said:

 

 

For me, when I have sailed other cruse lines,   I have  noticed a real  difference in 'some' of the   service  crew  Too many  bar staff , dining stewards had a styl we found  offensive and a bit sullen.    They (many) paled in comparison to HAL crews, IMO.  Crews are i  very  important to me and because of some RCI  crew, we sailed that line once and never returned.  We sailed Princess about 5 or so cruises  but  again.  we had some negative comments  regarding some of their interaction with gues.ts

 

 When we debarked Pirncess ship the last time we said that would be our last Princess  cruise and, indeed,  it was.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The hospitality on HAL really is unique.  I don't know how they get so many "good hires," but they do.

You made a comment, Sail7Seas, about HAL being the only cruise line you feel comfortable going solo on.

That comment stuck with me.  I realized that if a time comes when I'm cruising solo, I'd feel exactly the same way.  And that says a lot about the warmth that is present on a HAL cruise.  Even if the food happens to be mediocre sometimes.