Gratuity policy change

[blacksmith]

Parsley,

Again, which cruise lines are you using that you tip in envelopes at the end of the cruise?

[Vineyard View]

3 hours ago, broker1217 said:

 

Well--you may find such behavior not appreciated in countries where the servers rely on tips to feed their families.

While I would prefer that certain industries in certain countries do pay their employees a living wage---I also understand that I personally cannot change that system. Therefore, I follow local customs and tip where it is expected. Just as I do NOT tip in countries where it is not expected. Respecting local customs is part of travel--whether it be tipping or not wearing shorts in certain countries or covering up when entering a religious building. My personal opinion on any of those things doesn't matter---local customs/expectations win as I am not the arbiter.

 

 

And I fully understand how irritating the tipping customs are to non-Americans.  

I don't see US tipping customs changing quickly so I am accustomed to building 20% into the cost of tip required services. It's simply how we operate, just as in your country the menu prices are higher to accommodate living wages for employees.

Very well stated. I completely agree with this assessment. 

I will also continue to vote for tipping to be  included in Viking fares. If the fare went up slightly, and tipping was not expected as an extra, then the arguments  for tipping in x country vs no tipping in x country, and how that affects so many different opinions from various countries with Viking’s policy would hopefully lead to less frustration for all. 

[Parsley Cruises]

19 hours ago, broker1217 said:

 

Well--you may find such behavior not appreciated in countries where the servers rely on tips to feed their families.

While I would prefer that certain industries in certain countries do pay their employees a living wage---I also understand that I personally cannot change that system. Therefore, I follow local customs and tip where it is expected. Just as I do NOT tip in countries where it is not expected. Respecting local customs is part of travel--whether it be tipping or not wearing shorts in certain countries or covering up when entering a religious building. My personal opinion on any of those things doesn't matter---local customs/expectations win as I am not the arbiter.

 

 

And I fully understand how irritating the tipping customs are to non-Americans.  

I don't see US tipping customs changing quickly so I am accustomed to building 20% into the cost of tip required services. It's simply how we operate, just as in your country the menu prices are higher to accommodate living wages for employees.

Rest assured, I expect quiet and unobtrusive yet very professional service in order to make a pecuniary reward - anyone daring to comment with either a comment or a display of 'body language'  will receive a short sharp put-down from me.  If the servers have to (as you put it) rely on tips to feed their families (which, incidentally I don't entirely believe, as everything is relative), then they should 'think outside the box' and do something such as work longer, work harder to gain a promotion, get a different job, or reassess their cashflow habits.

 

Good service = nice tip; average or below doesn't.  Not wearing shorts in certain countries etc doesn't bother me, and neither does covering up in a religious building, as I don't do the interiors of such edifices.   I do not find tipping (per se) irritating, only the expectation of it.  

 

I have spent my life living in-line with customs and traditions, and one of the traditions I uphold - wherever I am in the world - is only tipping for good service.  Tipping willy-nilly for poor service is stupid; good grief, where will it end - rewarding criminals for their crimes instead of punishing them.  Believe you me, the punishment system in some countries has gone too soft, and then when these convicts are released they hold their hands out for non-stop charity, they think the world owes them a living.  No, for me it's a case of stiff upper lip and not giving in to the modern malaise.  Worst situation of all - being stuck on a cruise ship with loud outspoken people who drink too much and tip too loudly (which is why we very often retire to the calm area known as our suite).

 

If and when VO include mandatory tipping in the price one has to pay for a VO cruise, then I will not be travelling with them again,  I will not be forced into that.  

 

That's all.

 

 

Edited September 15, 2019 by Parsley Cruises
Addition

[Bridget2010]

On 9/14/2019 at 10:40 AM, Hockeyump said:

If we only tip those we interact with then how do we reward those we don't see? They play just as big a part in ensuring we enjoy our cruise.

Excellent point. One I was about to make until I saw your post. Many more crew than the ones a guest interacts with are working hard to ensure all guests enjoy a wonderful and safe cruise. For that reason I am willing to pay gratuities whether included or automatically added to onboard account.

[fudgbug]

I have yet to find on any Regent, Silversea, Seabourn or Viking Ocean cruise any crew member who doesn't deserve a tip bar none!  Victory II for that matter.

[blacksmith]

12 hours ago, Parsley Cruises said:

Rest assured, I expect quiet and unobtrusive yet very professional service in order to make a pecuniary reward - anyone daring to comment with either a comment or a display of 'body language'  will receive a short sharp put-down from me.  

 

I have spent my life living in-line with customs and traditions, and one of the traditions I uphold - wherever I am in the world - is only tipping for good service.  

If and when VO include mandatory tipping in the price one has to pay for a VO cruise, then I will not be travelling with them again,  I will not be forced into that.  

 

That's all.

 

 

Guess what. VO already has a daily automatic tip. They also automatically add a tip to all drinks (those that are not included) and spa services. 

I assume that you go to customer service when you get on the ship and tell them not to add the daily tip charge. I also assume you don’t order drinks that have a charge, or use the spa services. 

[Parsley Cruises]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 3:00 PM, Peregrina651 said:

 

Good thought. Deserves it's own thread.

Fair enough, but the only time I want to walk slowly is when I'm in photography mode, otherwise I prefer a good pace.

 

I know this won't suit some folk, so perhaps having a group for the slow walkers is a good idea.

[Parsley Cruises]

11 hours ago, blacksmith said:

Guess what. VO already has a daily automatic tip. They also automatically add a tip to all drinks (those that are not included) and spa services. 

I assume that you go to customer service when you get on the ship and tell them not to add the daily tip charge. I also assume you don’t order drinks that have a charge, or use the spa services. 

So, we're just about at the stage for booking our excursions, and I've just done my usual double-check of all things financial connected with our next VO cruise.  

 

In a previous post, I've highlighted the pitfalls of 'assuming', and your assumption is wrong.  I repeat, if no auto-tips is not part of the price of the cruise at the outset of the reservation, I won't book.  I do get the feeling that for passengers from North America it's a 'fool's game' - you pay your auto-tips as part of the price of the cruise and then get big obc!  That's 'even Stephens'!

 

Anyway, having done my double-check as per usual, I don't have auto-tips (as usual).  Nothing of that type will be added to our on board account, as usual.  (However, I will still take the little thank you cards and tip as I see fit at the conclusion of the cruise).  QED there will be no initial visit to customer service on board.  

 

I don't use spa services here at home, so I don't see the need to use them on a ship - if I'm not in port and running then I'll be in the gym; might use the pool in the spa, but not the services, and I gather that the spa pool is free anyway, as is the snow room. 

 

There will be sufficient drinks in the suite for us, and if I do fancy a short evening walk and a (non-alcoholic drink) then that will go on the on board account, as will obviously anything purchased from the gift shop.  Before you start wondering, we won't be paying for laundry, dry cleaning or shoe shine either - it's included.

 

So, that's it.  

[blacksmith]

Parsley,

I won’t be “wondering “ or “assuming” any more. It’s clear that you march to the beat of your own drummer. If your cruising methods work for you I wish you all the best. 

[Vineyard View]

Parsley has repeated their position on tipping/gratuities on each and every tipping thread with the same basic responses. No one is going to move their line in the sand. Parsley is not the one and only with this belief. This is not meant as a negative comment to anyone. 

I still remain in favor of including tips, Parsley, and maybe others, will stop sailing on Viking if they do this. Time will tell what Viking decides to do with this topic.

I will continue to pay the daily tip recommendation so that people behind the scenes receive compensation for their contribution in making my time on a Viking ship such a pleasurable and memorable experience. We will continue to have extra tips for individuals. Parsley (and others who are of the same opinion) will continue to provide envelopes on their cruises to those they feel deserve their tips.  There is a possibility that those envelopes go into the General tip pool if given by a passenger who waives paying the daily gratuity, as is common practice with various cruise lines. I do not know if that is the case with Viking. 

[RJ2002]

19 minutes ago, Vineyard View said:

There is a possibility that those envelopes go into the General tip pool if given by a passenger who waives paying the daily gratuity, as is common practice with various cruise lines. I do not know if that is the case with Viking. 

 

This occurred to me as well.  

[Parsley Cruises]

20 hours ago, blacksmith said:

Parsley,

I won’t be “wondering “ or “assuming” any more. It’s clear that you march to the beat of your own drummer. If your cruising methods work for you I wish you all the best. 

That's very magnanimous, cheers for that.  I'm very 'old school', even though being old is not part of my life-style.  

 

When we first started cruising, the cruise line we were with for a while (no name, no pack drill), always stated the cost of the cruise without gratuities.  The recommended daily amount was clearly mentioned, according to the level of your onboard accommodation, and they even supplied envelopes on board for passengers to pay their gratuities on the final evening/final morning, and I suppose we got into that habit, it worked for us, and we stick with it.

 

With experience we've changed cruise line a couple of times, and each time we've found an improvement in the service level, but we've always been able to maintain our way of doing things.  Whilst I'm very on the ball with modern facilities including all things 'IT', I also strive to maintain our own personal policies.  

 

When all is said and done - we'll stick to our way, and hope that you enjoy all your travels doing it your way too.

 

 

[jasardeax]

On 9/15/2019 at 3:44 AM, Parsley Cruises said:

 

 “Tipping willy-nilly for poor service is stupid; good grief, where will it end - rewarding criminals for their crimes instead of punishing them.  Believe you me, the punishment system in some countries has gone too soft, and then when these convicts are released they hold their hands out for non-stop charity, they think the world owes them a living”

 

 

 

 

 

I’m not sure.I understand this rant. 

 Are you saying 

Poor Service = Criminal Behavior 

 

What countries reward criminals for their crimes?

[Parsley Cruises]

You can do your own research, it’s not hard to find.  Poor service is criminal especially when an automatic tip is involved.  That is clearly ‘obtaining pecuniary advantage either by deception, dishonesty etc.  

 

It sticks in in one’s craw when it’s obvious also when one worker won’t or doesn’t do his/her job properly but still gets tips, mainly by coercing others to do his/her work for hi /her.  

 

So, yes in a way poor service does equal criminal behaviour, quite simply because where a cruise is concerned, firstly the passengers have paid the wages and secondly the automated tips enhance the money they receive.  Passengers are entitled to receive good service without paying a tip of any sort.  Really good service may deserve a tip.

 

Understand now?

[jasardeax]

Yes, I understand from your reply that you, astonishingly, do equate poor service to criminal behavior. Would you like to have the perpetrators arrested for poor service?

 

Also, I have done my own research, and can only conclude that, you, obviously can not name any countries that reward criminals for their crimes. 

 

Anyway, you are very entertaining. 

[Heidi13]

Have enjoyed reading this thread, as the discussions have been way more respectful that the numerous other tipping threads that usually degenerate into an across the Atlantic discussion. This is a highly complex subject, which has evolved based on changes from liner service to mass market cruising, and the desires of the largest market. Changes to International Labour standards also play a part.

 

When I started cruising, we still sailed on steam powered ocean liners that didn't have the current plethora of dining venues, so many pax had B/L/D in the MDR at the same table. We experienced way less of the front line staff than we do today. All crew were paid an adequate wage, based on their rank/rating and country of origin. The envelopes were distributed at the end of the cruise, based on your view of the service received, to the few front house crew. I was only a Cadet/Junior Officer in those days, so either can't remember, or was never privy to whether the tips were shared.

 

With the advent of cruising, multiple dining options, "anytime dining", etc. the number of front house staff you met increased significantly. Coupled to these changes were the huge increase in the US Market and associated tipping culture, and the Maritime Labour Convention 2006, which dictated minimum conditions/wages. In the US cruise market, the "Discretionary Service Charge" addressed a number of issues, in that it reduced published fares, by offloading some of the crew wages and met the expectations of many of the largest customer base, specifically adding tips to the bill.

 

My experience is with another cruise line, where the system is a closely guarded secret. While I had already left cruise ships before it was implemented, our son worked for Princess as Senior 2nd Officer and he was not privy to who was included in the tip pool and what percentage they received. Rest assured the Maitre'D & Chef were included and mostly likely received the highest percentage.

 

Although US owned cruise lines have tried to introduce similar systems in other markets, it has failed miserably. Recently Carnival had to remove the DSC from the P&O ships, similar to the Australian market.

 

However, as an original Brit with an associated tipping culture, when I sail on US market ships, I leave the DSC in place, as in reality, this isn't tips, but part of the crew wages. Where crew members provide us with exemplary service, we acknowledge with a discreet tip at the end of the cruise.

 

The percentage saving on cruise fare by removing a portion of crew wages as a DSC is negligible on a Viking cruise compared to a 7-day mass market mega ship. Although Viking operates predominantly in the US market, I believe their customer base is way more well-travelled than mega ship passengers and are more accepting of paying the crew from the base fare. Therefore, I agree that as a premium line, Viking should not add a DSC, the crew should be adequately paid from the base fare.

 

How to distribute the contents of the envelopes provided at the end of the cruise is a separate subject and is no different than any restaurant ashore.

[Parsley Cruises]

23 hours ago, jasardeax said:

Yes, I understand from your reply that you, astonishingly, do equate poor service to criminal behavior. Would you like to have the perpetrators arrested for poor service?

 

Also, I have done my own research, and can only conclude that, you, obviously can not name any countries that reward criminals for their crimes. 

 

Anyway, you are very entertaining. 

Nothing astonishing in it: demanding money with intent to defraud is a crime.  If someone demands a tip before the alleged service is due to be provided and the. doesn’t provide the service, that’s disgusting behaviour as I believe the perpetrator either had no intention of providing the service or knew that they were incapable, unable or too poor equipped to provide the service after having received the tip.  

 

As to naming countires: well I’m not so irresponsible as to name names and offend innocent people reading this.  This is a forum, not an examination.  I am not here to entertain you or serve you; I have simply put my view point; is it that you won’t or can’t understand that.

😴

[jasardeax]

 

Mr Parsely;

 

From the opinions expressed in your past posts, I think you would prefer a William Zantzinger type of response to perceived poor service. 

 

OK, I really only find you mildly entertaining. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by jasardeax
Added nane

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, Heidi13 said:

The percentage saving on cruise fare by removing a portion of crew wages as a DSC is negligible on a Viking cruise compared to a 7-day mass market mega ship. Although Viking operates predominantly in the US market, I believe their customer base is way more well-travelled than mega ship passengers and are more accepting of paying the crew from the base fare. Therefore, I agree that as a premium line, Viking should not add a DSC, the crew should be adequately paid from the base fare.

Great point, on a 10 night VO cruise the DSC would be $300 per cabin or $150pp. If the fare for a PV1 cabin is $6500pp would making that fare $6650pp (including the DSC) deter anyone from booking? It might actually get more potential business from people who want a true all inclusive cruise line.

[Hanoj]

2 hours ago, terrydtx said:

Great point, on a 10 night VO cruise the DSC would be $300 per cabin or $150pp. If the fare for a PV1 cabin is $6500pp would making that fare $6650pp (including the DSC) deter anyone from booking? It might actually get more potential business from people who want a true all inclusive cruise line.

 

This is my preference. Roll the tips into the cruise fare,  and if the tipping of tour guides, etc. were included this would make Viking comparable to some of the luxury lines. To me, it is a bit inconvenient to have small bills/coins available to tip tour guides and bus drivers on the excursions. If this meant an optional excursion were priced $5 -10 higher pp, I would welcome such a policy. 

[CCWineLover]

18 minutes ago, Hanoj said:

 

This is my preference. Roll the tips into the cruise fare,  and if the tipping of tour guides, etc. were included this would make Viking comparable to some of the luxury lines. To me, it is a bit inconvenient to have small bills/coins available to tip tour guides and bus drivers on the excursions. If this meant an optional excursion were priced $5 -10 higher pp, I would welcome such a policy. 

Hate to disagree with you but including tips for excursions IMHO would open up a whole can of worms.  I would vehemently be against this.  First not every passenger does Viking excursions and some do more than others.  Second, excursions have widely different bales.  Third,  Viking contracts out for excursion guides so the admin would be a mess.  Fourth,  excursions do get cancelled and ports cancelled, so another admin nightmare.  Fifth, come on, how hard is it to get some dollar bills from the desk before going on excursions?  Sixth , we have all had horrible guides..  and I could go on, but this is a bad idea.  Sorry.

[Hanoj]

9 minutes ago, CCWineLover said:

Hate to disagree with you but including tips for excursions IMHO would open up a whole can of worms.  I would vehemently be against this.  First not every passenger does Viking excursions and some do more than others.  Second, excursions have widely different bales.  Third,  Viking contracts out for excursion guides so the admin would be a mess.  Fourth,  excursions do get cancelled and ports cancelled, so another admin nightmare.  Fifth, come on, how hard is it to get some dollar bills from the desk before going on excursions?  Sixth , we have all had horrible guides..  and I could go on, but this is a bad idea.  Sorry.

 

Non sequitur.

 

Your HO is noted.

[RJ2002]

1 hour ago, Hanoj said:

 

This is my preference. Roll the tips into the cruise fare,  and if the tipping of tour guides, etc. were included this would make Viking comparable to some of the luxury lines. To me, it is a bit inconvenient to have small bills/coins available to tip tour guides and bus drivers on the excursions. If this meant an optional excursion were priced $5 -10 higher pp, I would welcome such a policy. 

 

Are excursion tips included on luxury lines?  We've sailed on Regent and they were not. 

[Twitchly]

I actually really liked Viking’s approach to tipping on our 2018 cruise. They automatically added a gratuity charge to the onboard bill; if you wanted to change it, you had to take action. That seemed like a reasonable compromise between putting all responsibility on you (which meant you would be more likely to skip or forget it) vs. baking the gratuities into the price of the cruise. I admit to not really understanding the latter option, since tipping is supposed to be for excellent service. If it’s just another fee, then wouldn’t that just be considered a salary raise? That’s fine too, but then why call it a gratuity? 

[blacksmith]

4 hours ago, jasardeax said:

 

Mr Parsely;

 

From the opinions expressed in your past posts, I think you would prefer a William Zantzinger type of response to perceived poor service. 

 

OK, I really only find you mildly entertaining. 

I had to listen again (probably been over 30 yrs) to the Dylan song you’re referencing. Conjures up a pretty similar profile.