NCL's Maths

[erdoran]

I don’t know what’s common practice, but to my common sense, the full fare, not NCF fare, should be taken into account.  Break out the port charges and remove them for the non-visited port.  Taxes should be charged on the REDUCED 11/12 fare, not full fare so there should be a refund there as well.  As for the daily cost of perks, that shouldn’t be considered, because they are buried in the cruise fare, and if you are only drinking for 11/12 of the cruise, that is what you should pay.  Also the auto-grats should be pro-rated.

 

As for commissions, again they should be based on the reduced fare.

 

This is becoming much more complicated that it should be.  IMHO it should be a straight 1/12 refund of the total fare and DSC excluding port charges & taxes, and 1/12 of the autograt for the perks, and some unknown number for taxes (probably 1/12 of them) and whatever the port charge is.

 

OP, I think you said you disputed one of the CC payments you made?  Personally I think that is a good idea - I’d dispute on the basis that NCL is not working with you in good faith, and repeat your chronology of what has occurred, and that they consistently have ignored your request for explanation of why this underpayment is truly the 1/12 you were promised.  You are ENTITLED to a breakdown of this refund because there is no way 15 pounds is the correct amount.  

[KeithJenner]

I haven’t made any CC dispute. That would be something of a last resort and to be honest in that case it would probably be better to just cancel.

 

Regarding the free at sea payment, this is slightly complicated because in the U.K. we just pay a fixed amount and this is the same for an 11 day or a 12 day, so I would not argue if NCL didn’t reduce that. Similarly, if a change took us down to the next level then people would expect the full £50 rather than just a pro-rata. I don’t think we can necessarily expect to have it both ways.

[mugtech]

Problem with the last cruise before dry dock?  This is why I would NEVER book such a cruise. (See Sun, Breakaway, etc).

[KeithJenner]

30 minutes ago, mugtech said:

Problem with the last cruise before dry dock?  This is why I would NEVER book such a cruise. (See Sun, Breakaway, etc).

Yes, I kind of agree.

 

I was not at all surprised by the itinerary change and do not have a problem with it at all, but it is something which people should go into with their eyes open.

 

What has surprised me has been NCL customer service in dealing with it. Their offer was what I would expect, and in itself is quite generous. It’s the fact that they then haven’t given me it that is the problem.

 

I have had a number of itinerary changes in the past without dry docks being involved, and have always been very happy with the result, and the assistance in getting there. That has clearly changed.

[mugtech]

3 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

I have had a number of itinerary changes in the past without dry docks being involved, and have always been very happy with the result, and the assistance in getting there. That has clearly changed.

Agree it could happen on almost any cruise, but by booking before dry dock you increase the odds, kinda like booking a south Atlantic or Caribbean cruise in September.

[room with a view]

4 hours ago, mugtech said:

Problem with the last cruise before dry dock?  This is why I would NEVER book such a cruise. (See Sun, Breakaway, etc).

We booked the cruise in March - wanted to be away for Christmas - paid £900 deposit .

Then found out it was a cruise before dry dock   too late.

[room with a view]

6 hours ago, room with a view said:

When we originally phoned NCL the cruise price for a BA balcony was £2239pp add gratuities £2377 pp add free at sea £2526pp. I then booked a package through a TA so don't know how much NCL charged my TA.

I still think £147.50  (£295) total is low for a BA balcony. Working on a 1/12 means NCL charged my TA £1770 for a cruise that they were pricing at  £2526 - does not figure.

OK I know my maths are not brilliant but I can see that Keith's refund is wrong as ours is short, also the ports fees/ "free at sea" promotion have to be taken into consideration.

I'm now going to read all the posts since I joined the discussion.

I have sent of an e-mail to our TA - asking once again for a breakdown of prices ( I don't hold out much hope as they have stonewalled me in the past) . I doubt NCL would  "sell" a £2239 (basic) cruise to a TA for £1770.

If I get a response on Monday, maybe Keith and I can compare notes.

[room with a view]

On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 5:28 PM, KeithJenner said:

Just a quick update, in case anyone is interested

 

I have today been speaking to a supervisor at NCL's UK office. Principally, it was to cancel the CruiseNext vouchers that I purchased when I was on the Spirit last month, as the 30 days during which they can be cancelled and refunded ends tomorrow. She has set that process in motion.

 

I also cancelled the dining package for our son which I had previously purchased. This is so that I can purchase it onboard and use up some of the OBC we will receive, as I had previously been planning on using it for CruiseNext.

 

The person I was speaking to finally seems to be someone who is interested in the issue. She was careful not to give any opinion on my calculations, but did seem to understand my point that they can't just keep saying that the calculation is correct without some sort of explanation as to why that is the case, and my calculation wrong. I did get a hint of agreement when I pointed out that £15 can't be the pro-rata reduction on fares of different amounts.

 

She hopes to get back to me on Monday. We shall see what transpires, although I have a feeling that she will just get the same "we are right and that's all we are saying" response.

Keith, have you had a response ? When I paid my final account my TA said she had phoned NCL to get the amount of refund. I'm hoping that when my TA receives the final invoice it will show a slightly better refund. Though she says it is accurate and to satisfy me she will recheck with NCL.

Taking out Free at Sea £149pp and the grats at £138pp to get the basic cruise price do we then have to deduct this NCF what ever that is ?.

Hope it's all resolved soon so we can look forward to the cruise.

 

[LrgPizza]

For what it's worth, when they shortened our Encore TA and prorated our fare based on 11 nights becoming 9, our refund was exactly to the penny what we'd calculated it would be based on the original base fare we had paid. In other words, NCL knows how to get it right. Somehow something has gotten screwed up on yours, and they need someone who understands the maths to explain it. I can't wait to see updates. Many of us know that you are level-headed and know your stuff when it comes to cruising with NCL. I know you'll stick with this until they get it right.

[room with a view]

21 hours ago, LrgPizza said:

For what it's worth, when they shortened our Encore TA and prorated our fare based on 11 nights becoming 9, our refund was exactly to the penny what we'd calculated it would be based on the original base fare we had paid. In other words, NCL knows how to get it right. Somehow something has gotten screwed up on yours, and they need someone who understands the maths to explain it. I can't wait to see updates. Many of us know that you are level-headed and know your stuff when it comes to cruising with NCL. I know you'll stick with this until they get it right.

Keith is in a better position to find out if his refund is correct as NCL can tell him how the refund is calculated from his basic fare. We seem to be only ones from the UK on this cruise (or on the CC discussion) so hopefully he will tell us his final amount obviously not £15 each. I think he was expecting £90 each for the adults .It's more difficult for me as our fare is in a TA package . Perhaps when Keith has the figure and it's 1/12 of the basic fare adding in port fees excluding FOS and adding NCF (is this an American thing? ) I may have something to go on.

[LrgPizza]

2 minutes ago, room with a view said:

Keith is in a better position to find out if his refund is correct as NCL can tell him how the refund is calculated from his basic fare. We seem to be only ones from the UK on this cruise (or on the CC discussion) so hopefully he will tell us his final amount obviously not £15 each. I think he was expecting £90 each for the adults .It's more difficult for me as our fare is in a TA package . Perhaps when Keith has the figure and it's 1/12 of the basic fare adding in port fees excluding FOS and adding NCF (is this an American thing? ) I may have something to go on.

 

I think you misinterpreted my post. I wasn't doubting Keith's ability. I have no doubts he already knows the exact amount the refund should be.

[room with a view]

13 minutes ago, LrgPizza said:

 

I think you misinterpreted my post. I wasn't doubting Keith's ability. I have no doubts he already knows the exact amount the refund should be.

Hi, I think you have misinterpreted me as well !!!  Keith is very able to sort out NCL -he has been on nearly all NCLs fleet and can talk to them direct  as he booked direct ( I have to go through my TA).

The question has always been the refund . Keith was originally offered £15pp which was obviously incorrect. My doesn't seem to be 11/12th of my cruise cost (though I'm unsure what that is ).

On previous posts he expected £90pp for the adult fare.

[insidecabin]

The only thing that could possibly be removed from the base fare(before free at sea and grats) with a UK booking before a pro-rata would be the published external taxes and fees as these have to include under regulations. 

For a direct booking this will be known as the prices even if on an NCL package cruise price should be transparent(same as cruise only) as all the ones I looked at package extra cost was more than the extras cost. 

 

With TA bookings those prices can still apply UNLESS they have packaged where cruise lines offer reduced fares that are hidden in the package price. 

Sometimes this can be significant. 

You can see cruise+air+hotel at the same price as cruise only from the cruise lines as they dump cabins, often the package price is more but not enough to cover the flights and hotel so there is significant cruise price reduction. 

 

If on a package you need the breakdown and the TA may have non disclosure terms with the cruise line.

 

I wonder what they would do if it was taken to MCOL. 

 

Before that an ABTA complaint might be worth trying they will have breached the code of conduct.

 

 

 

 

(MCOL is a cheap way to recover a debt in the UK through the courts) 

 

[KeithJenner]

Well, we have reached the end of Tuesday and the promised response hasn’t yet arrived. They seem to have gone from not answering my question to ignoring me completely.

 

I will phone the person who was going to get back to me tomorrow. Maybe the delay is because they are actually looking into it, we never know. 🙂

 

Where I go from there is the next question. I have considered ABTA and MCOL, and they are probably the most likely options from here, but I would much prefer to just sort it out with NCL. I’m not sure legally how NCLs compensation fits in with legal requirements. The cruise has been shortened by a day, so I would expect a prorata refund to be legally required, but I’m not sure how this is affected by them covering our hotel for that last night. I clearly haven’t received what they offered me, but I’m not sure how that sits legally. I think if I don’t get anywhere with them tomorrow then I may speak to ABTA for some guidance before starting anything officially.

 

We shall see how it goes tomorrow.

[room with a view]

27 minutes ago, KeithJenner said:

Well, we have reached the end of Tuesday and the promised response hasn’t yet arrived. They seem to have gone from not answering my question to ignoring me completely.

 

I will phone the person who was going to get back to me tomorrow. Maybe the delay is because they are actually looking into it, we never know. 🙂

 

Where I go from there is the next question. I have considered ABTA and MCOL, and they are probably the most likely options from here, but I would much prefer to just sort it out with NCL. I’m not sure legally how NCLs compensation fits in with legal requirements. The cruise has been shortened by a day, so I would expect a prorata refund to be legally required, but I’m not sure how this is affected by them covering our hotel for that last night. I clearly haven’t received what they offered me, but I’m not sure how that sits legally. I think if I don’t get anywhere with them tomorrow then I may speak to ABTA for some guidance before starting anything officially.

 

We shall see how it goes tomorrow.

I'm just going to sit and wait until my TA has more information  (hopefully soon )  - in my case it's different we are in a package - Keith is dealing direct.

£15 refund pp doesn't relate to anything he has paid. I would go with Keith's original calculation of £90 per adult booking - but who am I to question the math capabilities of NCL ?

[room with a view]

We have taken the OBC not the NCL hotel - though that should not have any affect the refund ….. or will it ??

Keep us up to date, Keith

[KeithJenner]

2 hours ago, LrgPizza said:

 

I think you misinterpreted my post. I wasn't doubting Keith's ability. I have no doubts he already knows the exact amount the refund should be.

 

1 hour ago, room with a view said:

Hi, I think you have misinterpreted me as well !!!  Keith is very able to sort out NCL -he has been on nearly all NCLs fleet and can talk to them direct  as he booked direct ( I have to go through my TA).

The question has always been the refund . Keith was originally offered £15pp which was obviously incorrect. My doesn't seem to be 11/12th of my cruise cost (though I'm unsure what that is ).

On previous posts he expected £90pp for the adult fare.

I think you both agree. 🙂

[room with a view]

1 minute ago, KeithJenner said:

 

I think you both agree. 🙂

Don't know how they will calculate your son's fare … as they say "It's complicated" .

[KeithJenner]

1 minute ago, room with a view said:

We have taken the OBC not the NCL hotel - though that should not have any affect the refund ….. or will it ??

Keep us up to date, Keith

The wording of the email treats the two elements as completely different things.

 

I’m also quite sure that a pro-rata refund plus hotel for the missing night has previously been the offer on a number of other similar situations. 

 

Also, the others on our cruises have got the pro-rata refund plus the hotel, so it looks quite clear to me that the hotel option shouldn’t affect the refund.

[Son of a son of a ...]

Sorry Keith, but everyone gets a turn in the barrel with NCL's crappy customer service.  

[LrgPizza]

19 minutes ago, Son of a son of a ... said:

Sorry Keith, but everyone gets a turn in the barrel with NCL's crappy customer service.  

 

But Keith is Keith! They are messing with the wrong cruiser. 😁  I'd bet there are some who wouldn't have thought anything of it, but like me in my situation, you (Keith) know exactly what it's supposed to be, so they picked the wrong guy. LOL!

 

Keith, I think once they get you sorted out, you should demand they send you on a free cruise on the Encore TA.  I had a good time meeting you on Escape, and we'd love to have you again.

[PelicanBill]

Biting my nails waiting for a result on this one.

[KeithJenner]

2 hours ago, Son of a son of a ... said:

Sorry Keith, but everyone gets a turn in the barrel with NCL's crappy customer service.  

Yeah, I know it's just my turn.

 

To be honest, I've had a variety of experiences with their customer service in the past, but most of it has been good, including my first interactions with them on this, sorting out an issue with my room getting reallocated.

 

I don't mind the changed itinerary, and understand that errors occur when computer systems run these adjustments. It's all fallen apart now though, and its frustrating that nobody there is seeing that it is wrong.

 

I am in danger of losing it with someone soon, especially if another person tells me that maths isn't their strong point. Well, actually, it is mine and I'm telling you this is wrong so please could I speak to someone who does understand maths. Then we can talk about some really tricky stuff, like what is 1,465/12 🙂

Edited September 17, 2019 by KeithJenner

[KeithJenner]

2 hours ago, LrgPizza said:

Keith, I think once they get you sorted out, you should demand they send you on a free cruise on the Encore TA.  I had a good time meeting you on Escape, and we'd love to have you again.

Yes, the Escape was a great couple of weeks. I am booked to go back on it next year, in what may be my final NCL cruise. We had a lot of fun.

 

I've had a few people trying to convince me to go on the Encore, and it is time for another one of my solo trips. However, last year I was trying to decide whether I should book the Encore or walk to Everest Base Camp, and for some reason I selected the latter. I'm off there in a couple of weeks, which means I can't really then clear off on the Encore a couple of weeks later.

 

I'm sure you'll all have a great time though. Have a drink or three for me. 🙂

 

[KeithJenner]

Today’s update.

 

I called in to NCL and the person I was speaking to at the weekend isn’t working today. Someone else looked into the current situation for me and said it is currently with Miami and they will be responding directly.

 

I’m not particularly pleased that I had to call to get told that, as she had told me that someone would get back to me on Monday or Tuesday, but I’ll leave that for now.

 

Anyway, I think I will give them a couple of days to respond. In the meantime I I’ll compose an email to send at the end of the week if I haven’t heard anything. That email will be to give them one final chance to respond to me or I will register a complaint with ABTA, or something similar to that.