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So , are dogs allowed on cruise ships now ?


loman
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3 minutes ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

 

What does a law about restaurants in Europe have to do with it? You're not entering a restaurant, you're entering a ship. A restaurant doesn't care about people getting Noro because they won't be blamed, but a ship does.

 

And even then, US law, or EU law has nothing to do with it. Bahamian law, Maltese law and even Dutch law maybe, not sure if they care that much about a service animal. I'm quite sure the Dutch police would put a complaint in the same place as where a bicycle theft goes. 

 

The US does force their laws upon foreign ships by subduing entire fleets when one of their ships wants to moore at their ports. As you told me there are USPH regulations about the right kind of screws for dishwashers. Every way to prevent a passenger from getting sick is taken care of. (which is, even after the US not giving a hoot about international law, still beyond their mandate even under US law, but we discussed that before).

 

What if dogs were "invented" today. Licking salt from the table, licking people's hands at another table who throw bread at them. A perfect way to bring viruses and bacteria from one passenger to the other. Would dogs be allowed on a ship? In the absence of other rules, compared to the proper screws, I'd think of course not. 

 

The OP is from Europe and may have brought that up earlier

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14 hours ago, MotownVoice said:

 

Actually, miniature horses have long been legit service animals. While they are not ideal for all disabilities, some opt for a horse as they outlive dogs. There is very real cost savings to having one animal around for 25 years vs having to have 2 or more dogs in that timeframe.

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5 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Saw a poodle, on a chair, eating from the table in the MDR on Harmony last year. 

 

3 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

We did, to our servers. The head waiter came to speak to us, we were told that there were “extenuating” circumstances with the dog and the owner; no details. We went to guest services later and spoke to head of food services.  The dog was there every night after that but was not on the chair, but sitting on the floor being fed from the table. 

 

That is aggravating, since these behaviors are specifically spelled out on Royal Caribbean's website as PROHIBITED.

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/experience/accessible-cruising/service-animals

 

You can read the entire page, but I shall quote the salient passage:

 


If the service dog's behavior creates a fundamental alteration or a direct threat to safety, the dog may be denied boarding or removed from the ship along with the owner at the guest's expense. Examples include: growling, barking excessively, initiating unsolicited contact, biting other guests and/or crewmembers, failure to use designated relief areas, sitting on furniture, eating from the table, etc.

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9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Afraid I have to agree with Brillohead on this one.  What you say is your "opinion" is discriminatory to those disabled persons who are not blind, but who lead as normal a life as possible due to the service provided by their dog.  I guess that President Bush's dog Sully would be a "pet" in your eyes, since the President was not blind when he obtained Sully from the America's Vetdog organization.  Since the President was confined to a wheelchair, Sully performed many tasks for him (two pages of commands) like fetching things the President couldn't reach, answering the phone, and calling for help in an emergency.  Your discriminatory views towards the benefits of true service animals to those with disabilities beyond blindness does not belong in today's society.

 

Whatever.  I was just answering the question someone posed, what would you do.

People abuse this all the time so they can bring Fluffy on their trip.

You yourself have said national registries won't work 

 

My view is not discriminatory toward service animals.  It is simply an opinion of one way to solve the issue of too many people abusing the system and taking dogs on cruise ships to the detriment of others.

Sorry if a potential solution offends you - not my problem

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4 hours ago, brillohead said:


I'm sorry that the truth hurts your feelings, but the truth is that you are all of the things I mentioned:

  • judgmental
  • ill-informed 
  • intolerant of the disabled

If you don't want me to point out the truth, maybe you shouldn't demonstrate those qualities quite so prominently in your posts here.  

 

Believe me, you were far from hurting my feelings.  I chuckle at foolish people like you who throw around insults and flex their keyboard muscles when someone has an idea or opinion they don't agree with.

 

As to the truth, the truth is you are the one being judgmental and intolerant of different ideas and opinions.  A normal person can respectfully disagree without tossing out silly insults like you did.

 

But go on, keep tossing out your insults if it makes you feel better.  It will simply give me another laugh

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6 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

While I agree with what you say, that is not my point, it is to the person who claims that only dogs for blind people are service animals, and all others should be banned.  I am responding to that person's ignorance of what benefits a service dog can bring to a life of a person with a disability.  That poster should be bound in a wheelchair for just one day, to see what cannot be accomplished, and then have the benefit of a service animal to provide the basics of a somewhat normal existence.

With respect I don't feel 1 day in a wheelchair teaches anybody what it is like to be disabled. A week would be better.

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11 hours ago, LXA350 said:

Out of sanitary reasons you would need to ban the animal from all areas connected to food to avoid additional risks from spreading of bacterias etc ( Windjammer, MDR etc) because you are on a cruise ship. I assume the person would need also assistance in those venues, so again something that would speak against it.

 

Dogs are cleaner and safer to be around that people.

 

Very few dog diseases transmit to humans.

 

Most of Europe, dogs are allowed in food venues.  

 

 

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7 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

We did, to our servers. The head waiter cam to speak to us, we were told that there were “extenuating” circumstances with the dog and the owner; no details. We went to guest services later and spoke to head of food services.  The dog was there every night after that but was not on the chair, but sitting on the floor being fed from the table. 

 

I would have mentioned, fine, but I am reporting it to the US Public Health Service, as it is a violation of the health standards.

 

See how they react to that one. 😄

 

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7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

While I agree with what you say, that is not my point, it is to the person who claims that only dogs for blind people are service animals, and all others should be banned.  I am responding to that person's ignorance of what benefits a service dog can bring to a life of a person with a disability.  That poster should be bound in a wheelchair for just one day, to see what cannot be accomplished, and then have the benefit of a service animal to provide the basics of a somewhat normal existence.

 

If you think that a national register will only cost $100/person, you live in a fairy tale land.  While that might be the cost of a "license", the cost to society for the bureaucracy to attend to the licensing would of course be in the millions.  And not all service animals are trained at costly facilities.  Some family pets have been found to be able to detect diabetic problems, or autism events, and then with proper training by the family this pet transitions to a service animal.  Many people who need service animals cannot afford the expensive formal training, and many insurance coverages do not extend to service animals.  This is why the law does not require any specific training of a service animal, it only gives a "code of conduct" that a service animal needs to adhere to, and in truth the law says that if the animal does not meet these standards, it can be asked to leave the premises.  I've seen the expensively trained service dogs, and I've seen ones that are trained by volunteers at veteran centers, and who might have the occasional relapse of looking at a distraction ("Squirrel!") that the professionally trained dog wouldn't dream of looking at, but the volunteer dog is just as well behaved, and a welcome guest on my ships.

 

Then there should be a training evaluation to be listed.  Similar to the Canine Good Citizen or Therapy Dog certifications.

 

Anyone can do the training, but only certain people can test the dog and certify them.  That would not cost millions.

 

Then add in some laws to punish those who falsify such certifications.

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8 hours ago, AmazedByCruising said:

 

 

What does a law about restaurants in Europe have to do with it? You're not entering a restaurant, you're entering a ship. A restaurant doesn't care about people getting Noro because they won't be blamed, but a ship does.

The poster wanted to ban service animals from all food service areas, so I asked what was done in food service areas in European restaurants.  Surely, if a restaurant in Holland has an outbreak of GI illness, the health inspectors will swoop in, and the press will be right behind them.  Just like Chipotle restaurants in the US, no different than a cruise ship.  How is noro going to be transmitted from a dog to a human?  Does the dog touch anything other than the floor?  The only way would be if the human owner was not careful with hand hygiene in cleaning up after the animal, but then that same person would not have good hand hygiene cleaning up after they themselves used the facilities, so they would be a potential transmission vector for noro whether they had a dog or not

And even then, US law, or EU law has nothing to do with it. Bahamian law, Maltese law and even Dutch law maybe, not sure if they care that much about a service animal. I'm quite sure the Dutch police would put a complaint in the same place as where a bicycle theft goes. 

Uh, why do you think that these service dogs are even allowed on the Bahamian flag ship, if US law did not apply to those cruises that call in US ports?  When a ship is in a US port, it is offering public accommodation, and therefore is liable under the ADA to provide accommodation for disabled persons, including the bringing of service animals.  Whether the police would do anything directly about a service animal complaint, you are showing the difference between European culture and US culture, as this would become a civil litigation proceeding, not a criminal one.  Everyone in the US sues someone

 

The US does force their laws upon foreign ships by subduing entire fleets when one of their ships wants to moore at their ports. As you told me there are USPH regulations about the right kind of screws for dishwashers. Every way to prevent a passenger from getting sick is taken care of. (which is, even after the US not giving a hoot about international law, still beyond their mandate even under US law, but we discussed that before).

And, as we've discussed before, when a ship is in Dutch ports, Holland "forces their laws upon foreign ships", as does every nation in the world.  And you have forgotten one thing about the USPH VSP program.  The USPH mandate is to prevent the introduction of infectious disease into the US (just as every nation has at least rudimentary quarantine regulations for ships entering their ports), and to do this, the USPH would board every cruise ship, every week, and inspect the ship for sanitation, and interview the passengers and crew to determine if any were ill.  The VSP is an agreement between the cruise lines and the US government, that if the ships follow the VSP, they will not have to be boarded and spend an entire day, every cruise, with complaining passengers waiting to get off the ship.

What if dogs were "invented" today. Licking salt from the table, licking people's hands at another table who throw bread at them. A perfect way to bring viruses and bacteria from one passenger to the other. Would dogs be allowed on a ship? In the absence of other rules, compared to the proper screws, I'd think of course not. 

If dogs were "invented" today, there would not be any idea whether or not they could transmit disease between humans, so your argument is worthless.

EDIT: To be clear,  I don't mind dogs on a ship, I think the other rules are far too strict. Broken tiles in the galley, 3 points. I couldn't care less.

Where do you draw the line?  Broken tiles that are hard to clean, so dirt accumulates, food rots, and bacteria grows.  Or do you wait until there are actual missing tiles, or several broken tiles?  Or the waterproof nature of the tile floor is compromised so that water can accumulate under the tile, growing more bacteria, or compromising the structural integrity of the floor?

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2 hours ago, SRF said:

 

Then there should be a training evaluation to be listed.  Similar to the Canine Good Citizen or Therapy Dog certifications.

 

Anyone can do the training, but only certain people can test the dog and certify them.  That would not cost millions.

 

Then add in some laws to punish those who falsify such certifications.

Who pays for those who write the evaluations?  Who pays for those who review the proposed evaluations for legality?  Who pays for the enforcement officers who investigate reports of false certifications, arrest or serve those accused, and the court time to try and fine those in violation.  Sorry my friend, but any federal law will cost millions just to enact and enforce it.

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11 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

My question is, when you go to a hotel, does that hotel only allow service animals in certain rooms?  I don't believe they can do that.  Support animals should not be allowed on cruise ships, but the cruise lines are wary of bad PR if they tell folks they can't bring their support animal.  Whether the service dog was in your cabin or had passed through the MDR a few minutes before you, does that make a difference?  Should the animals be limited to certain areas of venues, or limited venues?  Then you start down the road to only allowing the disabled in certain land restaurants, certain housing, certain stores.  Where does this end?

 I can chime in on this one.  yes many hotels DO restrict  which rooms  that can be used for pets/service animals.    at my hotel(  major tourist trap)  one HA room was designated pet free, all others  plus about 5% of the standard rooms  were  okay for pets.   they also happened to be in a separate building but I am not sure if that was by design or what.  

 

that being said after every stay with a  fur guest, it is  deep cleaned( rug shampooed,  comforter changed out etc)  or..it should have been.   I have my doubts based on the owner , his drug habit and tendency to stalk the  younger  housekeepers.  

 

of course anyone can request a deep cleaning before their stay.  

 

 

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On 9/17/2019 at 2:17 AM, Maverick61 said:

 

I am sure some will find this harsh but ban them all unless the owner is legally blind.

I am really sick of seeing all these pets on planes, in stores, etc.

Not everyone is a pet lover.  

A dog doesn't belong on a cruise ship or in an airplane

 

I always wondered what happens to the surrounding people with allergies.   What happens on a plane, for instance?   Is everyone in that enclosed space (let's say an airplane) supposed to suffer their allergic reactions to being around the service animal?    Discussions like this always make me think of that and wonder whose rights prevail.   

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33 minutes ago, Sherri914 said:

 

I always wondered what happens to the surrounding people with allergies.   What happens on a plane, for instance?   Is everyone in that enclosed space (let's say an airplane) supposed to suffer their allergic reactions to being around the service animal?    Discussions like this always make me think of that and wonder whose rights prevail.   

 

The owner with the service animal.

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On 9/16/2019 at 5:44 PM, loman said:

Just off the Allure yesterday .

I saw 3 , possibly 4 little doggies on the cruise .

None were wearing service vests .

I saw little kids playing with one and petting it and the owner was pleased with the attention his cruise partner was getting .

I don't think service animals like to be handled by strangers.

I'm glad they weren't large dogs , but just give it time .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Spotted a large Bouvier on Anthem....the owner wasn't very accepting of people petting his dog (that had nothing showing it was a service animal) and there was a giant litterbox for the dog to relieve itself. This "service animal" thing is getting abused and taken advantage of.

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1 minute ago, Merion_Mom said:

 

The owner with the service animal.

 

I kind of assumed that was the case.  Just not sure I agree with it.  I guess if it's a legit service animal that would be one thing, but so many I see in stores, restaurants, etc now don't appear to be any more than a beloved house pet.     

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32 minutes ago, johnjen said:

Spotted a large Bouvier on Anthem....the owner wasn't very accepting of people petting his dog (that had nothing showing it was a service animal) and there was a giant litterbox for the dog to relieve itself. This "service animal" thing is getting abused and taken advantage of.

No, the ESA (emotional support animal) thing is getting abused.  Do you know for a fact that the Bouvier was not a service animal?  There is no requirement to have any identification on the dog.  The fact that the owner didn't want the dog petted leans me towards it being a service animal.

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