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People can protest or be onside with a decision before the official reports and studies have been completed. Although once completed some may switch sides due to the reports as there would be more details ad facts available. Either way, it is too early to either give the project a full go ahead or condemn it.

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13 minutes ago, MicCanberra said:

 Either way, it is too early to either give the project a full go ahead or condemn it.

Or demonise any particular cruise line

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12 hours ago, The_Big_M said:

 

Yes. Though that doesn't relate or justify what you made up.

 

 

Um no. You've made your own conclusion about all the damage the terminal WILL do. And then trying to justify I've said that.

 

I'm saying let's wait for the actual studies and analysis to be done, and see what the findings are. And yes, if they were to conclude it would be harmful then I'd have concerns. But we're nowhere near that yet. So it's presumptuous to make claims about what will happen when as repeatedly said, that's unknown.

 

I'm not defending it. I'm saying wait for the actual analysis instead of putting the cart before the horse.

 

 

 

 

 

This has already been answered. How conveniently for you to forget. 

 

It's just the high level study to go ahead with funding for the DETAILED study which is STILL IN PROGRESS. 

 

There's nothing to hide. There's nothing more to it than that.

 

Again, making a song and dance over nothing.

 

 

Huh. She knows the basic facts which journalists are meant to report on. She's just describing the two different options, which anybody who's involved should know. One moment you're complaining you know everything and how it's going to be a disaster (you don't), next you're complaining everything is hidden from you (it's not), and the next you're complaining that journalist know stuff you don't (that's your issue, not theirs).

 

 

she works for cruise passenger not a jurno…   she was told of the plans where it was going to be ,  before anybody knew what spot or how it was to be built..  there is no use waiting for studies as the government will use there own bogus reports , also under the nsw act forgot which one they can by pass any reports to build it.....  as said many times there is no need to destroy a whole bay and the eco system just for a cruise port...  and its not my own conclusion, you can read EIS STUDY OF THE PORT EXPANSION .. yaself I have been fishing that bay over 40yrs I know what I have seen ..  and how destructive development   and the spread of those toxins do.. 

 

you can believe what the gov and port authority tell you , they never ever lie to people  … there honest bunch ..

 

port authority are full of it .if there is nothing to hide then release the info they have , you can believe all the rubbish port authority , and goverments tell you , but the real facts are clear , they will put a spin as they do with everything else  .. but who cares we will fight this to the end  more and more people are getting angry and know the truth that this will destroy the bay it shouldn't even been considered at yarra bay.. ..   the only ones that want this is state gov, port authority, royal carribean..  the maritime australia union spokesman said it all at the meeting , when you have  ex liberal and naval  officer, shooters fishers and farmers party, labour party,  green;s party, aboriginal land council, randwick council, bayside council, Australian fishing alliance , and anglers of nsw , locals and non locals from Sydney  all coming together in one room against this,  then you know something stinks about this cruise ship proposal ,  all had there say, all are against it so will be good to see the planed actions against this stupid idea

 

Edited by in rod we trust

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I realise there's no point correcting all the errors above as you have shown no willingness to accept or correct any of them, and then just go to make more things up.

 

Continuing to make stuff up, especially when you've been shown to make so many things up in the past  and not admitting anything shows you're willing to lie to achieve your goal.

 

It's then ironic that you complain your opposition does that.

 

It is sad that a number of entities which should know better, like the councils, just jumped in before the detailed studies are out. Some of it comes down to politics, rather than commonsense and science, though that's a curse we're living at the moment at other political levels too.

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7 hours ago, MicCanberra said:

People can protest or be onside with a decision before the official reports and studies have been completed. Although once completed some may switch sides due to the reports as there would be more details ad facts available. Either way, it is too early to either give the project a full go ahead or condemn it.

 

that's  true but the suggestion of destroying a whole beach area and eco system is enough to outrage anybody , when there are deep water ports else where that can be used..  there are many reports on why them toxins in the seabed shouldn't be disturbed, as from them pictures I put up thousands of locals use that beach,  marine life has just returned to that area,  how much can you put on a bay before it goes to crap..  ...

 

on another note... this is your country , to allow destruction of such awesome places is a joke, we see many places under threat from development, fires , extinction, greedy investors, selling of of our best agriculture lands , power lines and stations, our water .. when are people going to say enough is enough..  hopefully its not to late when they realise its all gone and they start paying thru the teeth for anything they want or get imported stuff that have no standards in food supply .. 

im done to explain why this is a shocking proposal.. if people don't stand up and want to see there country sold of and destroyed by gov and greedy investors then so be it.. 

 

 

Edited by in rod we trust

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16 minutes ago, The_Big_M said:

I realise there's no point correcting all the errors above as you have shown no willingness to accept or correct any of them, and then just go to make more things up.

 

Continuing to make stuff up, especially when you've been shown to make so many things up in the past  and not admitting anything shows you're willing to lie to achieve your goal.

 

It's then ironic that you complain your opposition does that.

 

It is sad that a number of entities which should know better, like the councils, just jumped in before the detailed studies are out. Some of it comes down to politics, rather than commonsense and science, though that's a curse we're living at the moment at other political levels too.

 yeak ok ..  no probs..  im making it all up when its there to see .. maybe take a drive to yarra bay this sunday and see how great that place is .. who knows maybe ya might see for yaself and change ya mind.. 

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by the way nobody from the public will see the reports from port authority  the environment  impact study or roads and transport impact study or nsw state liberal gov, its all kept under   confidence in cabinet …  now why is that , what are they hiding .. if it wont do any damage then why not release it,   what don't they want the public to know..  

 anybody with a little bit of common sense knows that when they hide something its for a dirty little reason  , they don't want you to know the full truth of the matter...  if it was to do with Australian defence force I can under stand that … but its a cruise terminal port , so what are they hiding behind not to make it public ...

 

the port authority made that clear that no impact study of any kind will be released to public and its a confidence in cabinet business case ..  

 

Edited by in rod we trust

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Have they been done yet?  I thought they were still undertaking on doing them.

as no one can see something that doesn't exist yet.

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1 hour ago, MicCanberra said:

Have they been done yet?  I thought they were still undertaking on doing them.

as no one can see something that doesn't exist yet.

 

The detailed business case is still in progress, but will likely be kept commercial in confidence when prepared. (It is a sad fact that our current government does like to keep things as secret as possible, but that applies to every commercial action they take, whether roads, stadiums, exhibition centres, the list is endless.) 

 

That is all at government determination though so unable to know at this point.

 

However, it is yet more bollocks to claim that the EIS will be kept secret, as those are required to be disseminated to the public.

 

That's what the main concern in a certain nimbyists postings are about, what the impact to the area from this going ahead will be. The business case is primarily about financials, which hasn't really been touched on in their arguments.

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No one on this forum ,including myself, has  enough legitimate information about what is planned and what will be the result of what is planned to make any sort of judgement on its outcome.Poor old untrustworthy Rod ( by the way ...his spell check and grammar don't seem to be working too well)only believes what he wants to believe and jumps to conclusions based on data fed to him by the"opposition" side and discounting any other outcome other than total destruction of Botany Bay  and his continual hatred of Royal Caribbean even though he would not have a clue what they may or may not contribute to this project. He has still not replied as to what information he bases his " dislike" upon.

The whole proposal is still in a very early stage and way too soon to make a call  ( they still have not even selected a site) and I am sure the Port Authority will not just push on  and destroy the Bay just for the sake of another terminal. They are not that stupid. Perhaps we should all just step back and see what  eventuates. Port Botany  is the only  sensible option  seeing that Garden Island is apparently a no go, Wollongong  and  Newcastle are just not feasible long term  alternatives logistically.

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you can think what ya like but I have been going to that bay for 40+ yrs ..

 

I have seen first hand what dredging has done to it a port expansion as well as desal plant..  you's can sit back from the comfort of your pc , thinking no impact will happen .. and that's fine everybody can have a opinion .. 

 if you think that no dredging of the area will impact marine life well try this simple test..

grab a flat style pan,  bucket etc   about 1 mtr long 50 cm wide ,fill it with soil  compact it , 1/4 of the way, then fill it will water the rest 3/4 .. leave it for couple days let all the sediments settle , then grab a table spoon and start digging a trench thru it and watch and see the water go black , and remember that's with no tides wind or waves...

I have stated, posted pics of the marine life and reports of what toxic sediments will do and have done ,  maybe some don't bother to read it or choose to ignore it .. but at least I have posted you ask for facts there are plenty as why it shouldnt be there. I have seen fish disappear from the bay for yrs and just making a comeback .. so before ya want to tear me appart listen to people who live there fish there swim there and visit there .. not from port authority and nsw liberals , who has lied to people all there lives..  

 

all I hear from some is that its a matter of convenience to have it there .. that's all I hear from some on here , no matter what it impacts it will have .. so long as I can get on and off the ship that's all that matters ..   maybe a couple of you;s here may think your going to get all the facts , but as mention by philp holiday ceo port authority no port authority study , eis study , or roads and transport study will be made available to the public ..  I went to both info session and meeting  and was told that twice by his so called reps and pr people on the day and phillip holiday said it himself ..  

 

so before ya go trashing people who are trying to save this for future generations , think of what your going to loose even tho probably some have never been to yarra bay just think about how much more the oceans can take with all the pollution that's getting dumped in there , how long before it comes back to bite you or ya kids or grand children ..  

Edited by in rod we trust

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33 minutes ago, gbenjo said:

No one on this forum ,including myself, has  enough legitimate information about what is planned and what will be the result of what is planned to make any sort of judgement on its outcome.Poor old untrustworthy Rod ( by the way ...his spell check and grammar don't seem to be working too well)only believes what he wants to believe and jumps to conclusions based on data fed to him by the"opposition" side and discounting any other outcome other than total destruction of Botany Bay  and his continual hatred of Royal Caribbean even though he would not have a clue what they may or may not contribute to this project. He has still not replied as to what information he bases his " dislike" upon.

The whole proposal is still in a very early stage and way too soon to make a call  ( they still have not even selected a site) and I am sure the Port Authority will not just push on  and destroy the Bay just for the sake of another terminal. They are not that stupid. Perhaps we should all just step back and see what  eventuates. Port Botany  is the only  sensible option  seeing that Garden Island is apparently a no go, Wollongong  and  Newcastle are just not feasible long term  alternatives logistically.

 

that's the way call me  untrustworthy .. call me what ya like  doesn't bother me .. go and listen to your nsw state gov and liberal gov or any for that matter , see where Australia was 20-30 yrs ago and have a look at it now ..  by the way have you ever been to yarra bay , or even botany bay ..  you can google map it .. if that helps ya

 

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1 hour ago, The_Big_M said:

 

The detailed business case is still in progress, but will likely be kept commercial in confidence when prepared. (It is a sad fact that our current government does like to keep things as secret as possible, but that applies to every commercial action they take, whether roads, stadiums, exhibition centres, the list is endless.) 

 

That is all at government determination though so unable to know at this point.

 

However, it is yet more bollocks to claim that the EIS will be kept secret, as those are required to be disseminated to the public.

 

That's what the main concern in a certain nimbyists postings are about, what the impact to the area from this going ahead will be. The business case is primarily about financials, which hasn't really been touched on in their arguments.

 the eis statement will be kept from the public as stated by ceo phillip holiday at the meeting and at the info session...  I went and asked maybe if you went you would know that but you didn't did you ..    like I said all your argument is based on nimbyists  and no facts  ,  if the impact isn't enough to say no then what can I say , I seen first hand what it has done so have many thousands that are fighting to save it.. its also the last aboriginal beach remaining in use today by them in Sydney region, but hey ignore that fact as well, thousands swim there and fish there  , kayak , dive , coral reefs , sea horse colony , weed beds,  etc etc etc..  disturbing those cancer causing sediments will destroy and pollute all of that rending it useless or fit for humans to go near the whole bay,,  

now your on about financials , don't go there as most cruise lines fly flags from third so call world countries to avoid pay tax ,   they barley contribute to the economy , they dump there crap overboard , they say they add 3.4 billion to the economy , now so me some facts and break down on that..  we all know by going cruising people stuff there face on the ships hardly spend any money on shore , and at most times you have less than 12 hrs at some ports ,.. so that is crap..  the average is what 40 bucks they might spend at different ports if they even get off 

 

show me ya financials ..  you have gone from nimbyists to convenience to wait and see the report to financials .. anything else you may have left out … maybe uber you forgot 

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34 minutes ago, in rod we trust said:

 the eis statement will be kept from the public as stated by ceo phillip holiday at the meeting and at the info session...  I went and asked maybe if you went you would know that but you didn't did you ..    like I said all your argument is based on nimbyists  and no facts  ,  if the impact isn't enough to say no then what can I say , I seen first hand what it has done so have many thousands that are fighting to save it.. its also the last aboriginal beach remaining in use today by them in Sydney region, but hey ignore that fact as well, thousands swim there and fish there  , kayak , dive , coral reefs , sea horse colony , weed beds,  etc etc etc..  disturbing those cancer causing sediments will destroy and pollute all of that rending it useless or fit for humans to go near the whole bay,,  

now your on about financials , don't go there as most cruise lines fly flags from third so call world countries to avoid pay tax ,   they barley contribute to the economy , they dump there crap overboard , they say they add 3.4 billion to the economy , now so me some facts and break down on that..  we all know by going cruising people stuff there face on the ships hardly spend any money on shore , and at most times you have less than 12 hrs at some ports ,.. so that is crap..  the average is what 40 bucks they might spend at different ports if they even get off 

 

show me ya financials ..  you have gone from nimbyists to convenience to wait and see the report to financials .. anything else you may have left out … maybe uber you forgot 

My goodness.. you are an ill informed  misled buffoon, you would not have any idea what you are talking about. Greenie dribble.

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57 minutes ago, in rod we trust said:

 

that's the way call me  untrustworthy .. call me what ya like  doesn't bother me .. go and listen to your nsw state gov and liberal gov or any for that matter , see where Australia was 20-30 yrs ago and have a look at it now ..  by the way have you ever been to yarra bay , or even botany bay ..  you can google map it .. if that helps ya

 

As a matter of fact, yes I have been to Yarra Bay...I used to race catamarans there some years ago ...not a bad place I suppose .....but could do with a good cruise terminal.

 

So..my turn......have you ever REALLY been on a cruise  .....   and you still have not told us what your beef is with Royal and why you (incorrectly ) THINK they are the only cruise line pushing Port Botany Desert Cruise Terminal .         

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1 hour ago, gbenjo said:

As a matter of fact, yes I have been to Yarra Bay...I used to race catamarans there some years ago ...not a bad place I suppose .....but could do with a good cruise terminal.

 

So..my turn......have you ever REALLY been on a cruise  .....   and you still have not told us what your beef is with Royal and why you (incorrectly ) THINK they are the only cruise line pushing Port Botany Desert Cruise Terminal .         

again with the  name calling your getting better lol ..

 

don't ya read your own forum news ..

https://www.cruisecritic.com.au/news/news.cfm?ID=6542

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/topic/1542239-royal-caribbean-supports-port-botany/?do=findComment&comment=31993716

https://www.traveller.com.au/bound-for-botany-bay-as-the-harbour-overflows-with-cruise-passengers-2bgc3

https://cruisepassenger.com.au/port-botany-cruise-terminal-construction-could-begin-as-early-as-2023/

  and yes I do cruise ..   in one statement he says due container traffic has eased .. maybe infront of his place it has.. but botany bay last time I was there 4 ships in just the morning  hrs .. 

here is a bit of leaks that happen at port botany and kurnell .. the pipes are much older now , so there is a greater risk... 

https://www.fire.nsw.gov.au/news.php?news=2042

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/faulty-valve-blamed-for-spill-of-130-000-litres-of-fuel-20130712-2ptuw.html

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/newslocal/southern-courier/caltex-to-pay-850k-in-record-penalty-after-unleaded-petrol-spill-in-banksmeadow/news-story/a09994d2dfa531c4733160d291c87e71

https://www.theage.com.au/national/nuclear-cargo-safe-says-regulator-20061218-ge3tlk.html

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So talking to the officers at the suite party on voyager yesterday about a Oasis class coming to Australia.

They said possibly in a couple of years but 1 will be coming as the market is here.

When 1 comes it will be to Brisbane because sydney isn’t capable of handling one unless they build port botany.

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