Did NCL drop your luggage in the Sea ? - Pearl 28 July from Rome

[GoldingS666]

Hi there,

 

I'm reaching out to find the other passengers effected by the negligence of NCL and the stevedores in Rome on 28 July 2019.

The Pearl was leaving Rome for an 11 day cruise to end in Barcelona when a call went out that "somehow" certain passengers luggage fell into the sea.

 

There were 14 cases involved and I was the lucky guy who lost his entire families luggage to the sea (4 cases), 1 of which sunk under the ship.

 

I have tracked down 1 other passenger who lost a case but there could well be another 9 passengers out there who were effected.

 

I have had nothing but excuses and delay from NCL and onward Insurers and would like to exchange notes before I decide whether to take this to the ever hungry world press or seek legal recourse.

 

Suitcases look so nice after they have swum under the ship !

 

[zqvol]

Until the suitcases are actually on the ship the problem is with the stevedores not with NCL. The stevedores work for the port, not the cruise lines.

[pieshops]

you are very lucky you purchased travel insurance to cover these damaged and missing items

[GoldingS666]

However my contract is with NCL and theirs is onwardly with the stevedores

 

I have no legal contract or insurance with the stevedores so this is for NCL to address.

 

Furthermore NCL have shown complete lack of care custody and control of a customers possessions or customer well being.

[GoldingS666]

A warning on travel insurance as well

 

Unless you have receipts for every single thing you own this is often limited to approx. USD 200 per head for miscellaneous damaged items.

 

What sort of person has receipts for the 400+ items in 4 suitcases on the off chance they fall into the sea and are then recovered.

 

Everybody has recent receipts but not for everything they own

[smplybcause]

Unfortunately your contract with NCL states:

 

7. Baggage and Valuables:

b) The Guest and Carrier agree and stipulate that the aggregate value of all the Guest's baggage and any other property lawfully brought on board by the Guest, which shall include but not be limited to photographic equipment, jewelry, watches, cell phones, clothing and cash, does not exceed U.S. $100.00 and any liability of the Carrier or the vessel for any cause whatsoever with respect to said baggage and other property regardless of whether carried in baggage or by a Guest shall not exceed such sum unless the Guest shall specify its true value, in writing, and pay to the Carrier before embarkation 5% of the excess of such value, in which case the Carrier's liability, if any, shall be limited to the actual damage sustained up to, but not exceeding such specified value. In no event shall Carrier be liable for normal wear or tear of the Guest's property or baggage. (c) The Guest agrees that all disclaimers and limitations of liability contained herein shall apply to all valuables stored or accepted for storage by the Carrier, including valuables stored with the Carrier in safety deposit boxes or security envelopes. The Carrier cannot accept responsibility for, and in no event shall be liable for, the loss of or damage to valuables or other articles left in cabins, and in no event shall the Carrier be liable for loss of or damage to property of any kind not shown by the Guest to have occurred while said property was in the Carrier's actual custody. (d) The Guest agrees to promptly report any loss of or damage to baggage during loading or disembarking, to the Carrier's personnel, prior to debarking the U.S. Customs area; the Carrier shall not be responsible for any such loss or damage which is not so reported. Liability, if any, for loss or damage to baggage occurring elsewhere than on board the vessel in connection with air, car, motor coach, ground transfers, porters, stevedores and/or hotels shall rest solely with the person or entity providing such services and the Guest agrees that the Carrier does not guarantee the performance of such services and shall not be liable in any respect or capacity for any such loss or damage. (e) The Guest will not be liable to pay nor entitled to receive any general average or salvage contribution or award in respect to property taken by the Guest onto the vessel.

https://www.ncl.com/oci/contracts/en-US

 

 

In other words, per the contract they're only required to give you $100 unless you state it's more before embarkation and pay 5% of the value.

 

 

As for travel insurance - yes they will limit the amount they pay without receipts because otherwise they don't know if you're telling the truth or not. I lost a bag of electronics and luckily 95% of what was in the bag was bought online. Travel insurance paid out everything. 

[GoldingS666]

Many thanks for your input smplybcuase

 

I am aware of this and ironically this has just added to the negative PR they deserve and that I warned them about if I went public with this case and that of Insurers hidden terms and conditions.

 

The general public pay thousands to cruise and airlines who sub contract handling of luggage to incompetent sources and walk away from customers in the even of a loss.

 

NCL actually tried to hide what had happened from us which makes this worse.

 

Travel Insurers boast that you have accidental damage for many thousands of limit

The small print demands that you never throw away receipts so keep those receipts for your lucky socks close to hand.

 

Compensation. Have a pathetic discount off your next exciting holiday with a bunch of incompetent clowns that dont care about your well being.

 

You are not allowed to bring main luggage aboard yourself as it blocks passageways so you are at the mercy of their chosen handlers.

 

I would challenge the above wording "property lawfully brought on board by the Guest" as I did not bring this aboard

 

Time will tell and I will get myself a smart new haircut for so the media get my best look. ha ha

 

 

[GoldingS666]

Liability, if any, for loss or damage to baggage occurring elsewhere than on board the vessel in connection with air, car, motor coach, ground transfers, porters, stevedores and/or hotels shall rest solely with the person or entity providing such services and the Guest agrees that the Carrier does not guarantee the performance of such services and shall not be liable in any respect or capacity for any such loss or damage"

 

Yes I read this but the fact remains I do not have a contract with the stevedores, NCL do so they have the responsibility to follow this up on their customers behalf

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by GoldingS666

[Funky Fusion FoodsJ]

From a recent article on cruise lines and lost luggage:  Most cruise lines have very limited compensation for a lost or stolen bag. Policies range from Carnival's $50 per bag (maximum $100 per stateroom) to Viking's $500 per passenger. Oceania Cruises flat-out states it is "not responsible for the loss of or damage to guests' luggage."   

All of life is a risk and its what we're willing to pay to mitigate that risk.  To always have "everything" insured would be costly, if not impossible.

 

NCL has no obligation, other than what has been previously stated, it is a risk we take when we cruise.  Of the 20 million plus people who cruise each year very few are impacted.  Unfortunately you were one of those few.

To take things like this to the media really don't do anything to change the programs, or coverage's, it is purely a business monetary decision as to what is covered.

 

It is highly unlikely that by your attracting media attention NCL will make any special consideration for your situation, if they did it could affect precedence for future loss complaints.

 

There's the small writing in every contract we enter (and you did enter into a contract).  It's good educational experience for everyone, though quite honestly I don't see very many who will worry about keeping receipts for every handkerchief for future claims, which is really the only way to insure full receipt of insurance claims.

 

[ColeThornton]

31 minutes ago, GoldingS666 said:

Liability, if any, for loss or damage to baggage occurring elsewhere than on board the vessel in connection with air, car, motor coach, ground transfers, porters, stevedores and/or hotels shall rest solely with the person or entity providing such services and the Guest agrees that the Carrier does not guarantee the performance of such services and shall not be liable in any respect or capacity for any such loss or damage"

 

Yes I read this but the fact remains I do not have a contract with the stevedores, NCL do so they have the responsibility to follow this up on their customers behalf

 

 

I'm no maritime attorney but it would seem to me that the contract there would be between the Port Authority and the Stevedores Union, not with the cruise lines.

 

I empathize with your situation and frustration but I don't see much of this going your way.   Cruise lines, airlines and hotels are experts at covering themselves with all the legal mumbo jumbo.

[StolidCruiser]

1 hour ago, GoldingS666 said:

A warning on travel insurance as well

 

Unless you have receipts for every single thing you own this is often limited to approx. USD 200 per head for miscellaneous damaged items.

 

What sort of person has receipts for the 400+ items in 4 suitcases on the off chance they fall into the sea and are then recovered.

 

Everybody has recent receipts but not for everything they own

 

You're right - your contract is with NCL.  Please see Post #6 for the extent of your remedies with NCL.

 

You may have additional remedies under your travel insurance.  You should have read those terms as well as NCL's prior to travel (no matter how fine the print).

 

Your dilemma is one experienced by many travelers on all kinds of different carriers.

 

Since its been over two months as no one has coughed up the cash for your ruined belongings and vacation, you may just have to take the route you proposed - social media shaming and lawyering up.  I can predict the outcome of that action but it won't make you any more comforted.

Edited October 2, 2019 by StolidCruiser

[Starry Eyes]

35 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

 

I'm no maritime attorney but it would seem to me that the contract there would be between the Port Authority and the Stevedores Union, not with the cruise lines.

 

I empathize with your situation and frustration but I don't see much of this going your way.   Cruise lines, airlines and hotels are experts at covering themselves with all the legal mumbo jumbo.

I am also not a lawyer, but I agree with the above poster.  You and the cruise line both wanted to sail from a certain embarkation port.  That port likely contracts with (and supervises) the stevedores.  Until the suitcases were on the ship, the cruiseline would not have been handling your luggage yet.  I have seen passengers taking their luggage, even rather large cases on board themselves.  In over 50 cruises, I have never heard a passenger told they could not do so due to blocking of passages.  The luggage would have to fit through the security scanner at check in, I suppose, so there may be some limit to how large of bag you could have pulled on yourselves.  Still, if you wanted to take your own bags on, you could have packed in way that would have made that possible.

 

The low $ limits to luggage coverage are known to regular travelers, as is the need for receipts for insurance.  Those policies are in the contracts.  Yeah, fine print, no fun to read, and what would you do anyway?  Is it reasonable that your insurance company wants you to have receipts?  Well, that is a difference of opinion between you and your insurance company.  I hope you were able to launder and recover those “lucky socks”; they sound like a make or break item, lol.

 

I can also empathize with the disruption this must have caused and the continued frustration you must feel.  I understand you now hope to shame the cruiseline into a larger package, though the law is on their side.

Edited October 2, 2019 by Starry Eyes

[Homosassa]

I am curious to what exactly you lost or had damage beyond repair?

 

Did NCL offer to wash or dry clean the clothes so that they were again wearable? Did they help replace any personal care items that might have needed replacing?

 

Did they offer to fix any damage to your used luggage?

 

While your post is very dramatic, what exactly are we talking about as far as loss?  Accidents do happen and not everything deserves media coverage or a free cruise as compensation.

[DaCruiseBug]

Isn't it funny how cruise lines operate? Nothing is ever their fault. They're never held liable and they always find a way to screw you over. Meanwhile the airlines are so heavily regulated that even if you luggage is just delayed they will offer compensation. It doesn't matter if the skycap (non airline person) damaged your luggage or if the airline itself did.

[smplybcause]

5 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

Isn't it funny how cruise lines operate? Nothing is ever their fault. They're never held liable and they always find a way to screw you over. Meanwhile the airlines are so heavily regulated that even if you luggage is just delayed they will offer compensation. It doesn't matter if the skycap (non airline person) damaged your luggage or if the airline itself did.

 

1) Airlines handle a lot more bags that cruise ships. Therefore even if cruise ships and airlines had the same incident rate, the sheer number of lost bags on airlines would dwarf cruise ships. 

 

2) Actually what regulations stipulate for US airlines isn't a lot. It basically amounts to there are maximums (ironically international flight maximum is half of domestic) and the airlines can put stipulations on them. Like requiring receipts to prove what is in your bag, to first get the airlines authorization to buy interim items (also must keep receipts) and/or limit it to "reasonable" items. 

[ollienbertsmum]

3 hours ago, GoldingS666 said:

A warning on travel insurance as well

 

Unless you have receipts for every single thing you own this is often limited to approx. USD 200 per head for miscellaneous damaged items.

 

What sort of person has receipts for the 400+ items in 4 suitcases on the off chance they fall into the sea and are then recovered.

 

Everybody has recent receipts but not for everything they own

 

I thought about this a few years ago.  Started to keep receipts for everything I bought.  Filed it all and labelled receipts.  Lasted about a month.  Life is too short.

 

After making one claim for a suitcase that was broken and still having to shell out $150 for the new suitcase, then making a claim for a medical visit in Myanmar and realising that the rabies vaccine was less than the $50 excess....  I realised that there is no point in taking good things on vacation and insurance is for major health issues and don't expect anything more.  I am presently worrying about formal nights on  another cruise line.  I should just stick with NCL and not care that we dress down and leave our posh stuff at home;  

[Victorious8]

I recommend getting a lawyer if you can afford it. I think people forget on Cruise Critic that just because you have a contract doesn’t mean it will hold up in the court of law. 

Settlements happen all the dang time because it’s way more expensive to litigate. As long as it’s not easily tossed on summary judgment there’s a good chance NCL settles for a few thousand. 

[Blitzburggirl]

I too find it sad, but not as tragic as the OP seems to think this event was.

 

Maybe because I've traveled much, and in the age of comfortable, easy care fabrics.

 

I went on my last cruise in April, and will be going again in December. When I think of my "luggage", which I've always carried onboard, on 3 different cruise lines, I don't pack much that washing and drying would damage. Over the years, there have been a few dresses here and there, my ex's military uniform, and some shoes that would have made me sad. But certainly not enough to stain my trip, especially if the cruiseline was able to recover them, and wash them. I can't imagine an entire weeks worth of clothing for any family member, especially teens lol that 90% of it isn't wash and wear. I guess being a little dramatic is your way of hoping to maximize any payment you may get?

 

FWIW, for the last 3 cruises, I can only think of one dress and one pair of shoes that would have been damaged. My entire teenager is wash and wear, so his luggage may have been improved by NCL taking it and washing it for him. 😉

[smplybcause]

23 minutes ago, Victorious8 said:

I recommend getting a lawyer if you can afford it. I think people forget on Cruise Critic that just because you have a contract doesn’t mean it will hold up in the court of law. 

Settlements happen all the dang time because it’s way more expensive to litigate. As long as it’s not easily tossed on summary judgment there’s a good chance NCL settles for a few thousand. 

 

Contract has a clause in it about binding arbitration (unless it's personal injury or brought in small claims court). There's instances of breaking those clauses (not necessarily with cruise lines), but they're rare. They'd still likely just refer to the contract, but even if for some reason they agreed they should get more without receipts to prove all of the costs of what was ruined they'd still be hitting the same roadblock. 

[DaCruiseBug]

17 minutes ago, smplybcause said:

 

1) Airlines handle a lot more bags that cruise ships. Therefore even if cruise ships and airlines had the same incident rate, the sheer number of lost bags on airlines would dwarf cruise ships. 

 

2) Actually what regulations stipulate for US airlines isn't a lot. It basically amounts to there are maximums (ironically international flight maximum is half of domestic) and the airlines can put stipulations on them. Like requiring receipts to prove what is in your bag, to first get the airlines authorization to buy interim items (also must keep receipts) and/or limit it to "reasonable" items. 

 

1. Airlines "lose" on average of 2 bags per 1,000 passengers and that number is decreasing. Delta for example loses 1.55 bags per 1,000 passengers. Considering how much more complicated it is to get a back from the check-in kiosk, thru the entire airport, onto connecting flights etc...that's pretty impressive.

 

2. The airline industry is one of the most regulated industries in the United States. The cruise industry on the other hand is one of the LEAST regulated.

[DaCruiseBug]

2 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

Airlines have not treated me well when my luggage was delayed.  Even when lost, as I recall, the compensation from airline is quite low.  And travel insurance may require receipts.  And they lose and damage far more luggage.

 

The amount of luggage that is damaged or lost is a fraction of 1 percent. The cruiseline takes your luggage and brings it on the ship. An airline moves it from the ticket counter, thru the airport baggage system, onto bag carts, into the belly of an airplane, back onto a bag cart, then onto your connecting flight, and then it once again gets unloaded and delivered on a baggage carousel. Of course there's a higher incident rate. It's like saying there's more OJIs for construction workers then there are for secretaries.

 

When your baggage is delayed or lost you get your baggage fees back and you get up to $3,500 based on what items were lost. Compare that to what a cruise line gives you and you'll see just how different it is.

[Homosassa]

3 hours ago, GoldingS666 said:

 

 

The cabin girl tried to help and called officers. 

 

NCL insisted that they cleaned all of our clothes so pretty much ceased our possessions. They bundled everything into laundry bags and 24 hours later all was returned. Many still stained from make up and toiletry spillage bur all shrunk and faded and unironed etc.

 

What was apparent is they boiled and tumbled all clothes to disinfect the port pollution from them.

 

After several washes they all still smell and none fit as they did. 

 

All cases have rusted etc.

 

Naturally all electronics were destroyed and with water pouring from them you would not plug them in to check.

 

 

 

I am really surprised that NCL did such a shoddy job on cleaning your clothes.  After all, they do advertise:

 

"Laundry & Dry Cleaning: For your convenience, we offer laundry and dry-cleaning services. Express, same-day service is also available. Just complete the order form in your stateroom and your stateroom steward will pick up your laundry and return it to you clean and folded. Please note that laundry is not self-service"

 

 

And as this service is a perk at certain Latitudes levels, I am sure that there would be scathing threads on this forum if the laundry service was that poor.

 

As far as the clothes not fitting as well as they did, I am sure I am not the only one that finds this to be a problem during and after a cruise.😉

[SeaShark]

3 hours ago, Victorious8 said:

I recommend getting a lawyer if you can afford it. I think people forget on Cruise Critic that just because you have a contract doesn’t mean it will hold up in the court of law. 

Settlements happen all the dang time because it’s way more expensive to litigate. As long as it’s not easily tossed on summary judgment there’s a good chance NCL settles for a few thousand. 

 

Why would NCL even address this, much less settle? The damage happened BEFORE NCL had possession of the luggage. There isn't a lawyer around who will get money from someone who wasn't even involved.

[DaCruiseBug]

1 hour ago, smplybcause said:

 

1. Impressive or not, still doesn't rebuff my point. That's still 8.2 million bags a year lost. Even if they lose at the same rate (which I don't think so given the few times you hear of lost bags via cruisers) is around 50k. That's not even 1% of what the airlines lose. 

 

2. Most of the regulations have little to do with the customer side of it. Just because it's regulated doesn't mean it has better consumer protections. Compared to other countries consumer regulations for air travel, the US is awful. Not to mention the Montreal convention is international regulation that the US decided to follow vs already having their own regulation on it. Oh and the airlines also require proof of what was in your bag, so lacking reciept will not get you anywhere near the $3,500 limit - the regulations make no minimum amount due to passengers. 

 

1. Again, you're comparing apples to oranges here.

 

2. Most of the regulations are actually in place for passengers and the public. That's why there's so many more regulations that impact part 121 operators versus part 91 operators. While there are less regulations compared to other countries, airlines usually go above and beyond what the government requires. Proof is required to receive monetary compensation...of course. Otherwise everyone would say there was $3,500 worth of items in the suitcase and losing your luggage would be like hitting the lotto. It's not like with most purchases being made on a credit card you can't provide proof...and even then...most people still scam the system. People rarely claim that there was less than $2,000 worth of items in their luggage because they're looking for a payday when all they had was some garments with a replacement value of probably around $300-400. Now compare it to what cruise lines offer...exactly my point.

[andymattmom]

I wouldn’t be posting on a message board. You don’t know who reads it. I’d go to Elliott.org and ask for assistance there. They will tell you how to write an email and the order in which to send. They will tell you to be short and leave out all fillers to your story, and not threaten.