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GoldingS666

Did NCL drop your luggage in the Sea ? - Pearl 28 July from Rome

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Think about running this by Elliott for perhaps a better solution and cutting red tape - LINK:

 

https://www.elliott.org/about-elliott-consumer-advocacy/

 

This sort of disaster needs more Media and Broadcast attention AND responsibility by NCL and it's agents !

 

Don't be left out with minimum compensation and careless loss of your belongings !

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9 minutes ago, don't-use-real-name said:

Think about running this by Elliott for perhaps a better solution and cutting red tape - LINK:

 

https://www.elliott.org/about-elliott-consumer-advocacy/

 

This sort of disaster needs more Media and Broadcast attention AND responsibility by NCL and it's agents !

 

Don't be left out with minimum compensation and careless loss of your belongings !

Guess good minds think alike 

I didn’t  know if link allowed 

posted two above yours

elliott is a great resource 

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6 hours ago, don't-use-real-name said:

Think about running this by Elliott for perhaps a better solution and cutting red tape - LINK:

 

https://www.elliott.org/about-elliott-consumer-advocacy/

 

This sort of disaster needs more Media and Broadcast attention AND responsibility by NCL and it's agents !

 

Don't be left out with minimum compensation and careless loss of your belongings !

‘Disaster”.  Sorry this is not a disaster as much as it sucks for the OP, what happened in the Bahamas a few weeks ago is a disaster, a plane crashing is a disaster, 911 was a disaster.  Losing (as much as it sucks )! Cloths and electronics is not a disaster.  

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14 hours ago, Starry Eyes said:

Wow, to the last point, it is distinctly unkind to wish bad first hand experiences upon others; doing so shall not help your PR efforts one little bit.  It can make you look worse than the cruiseline and an expensive haircut will not help. Further, those of us that have read the fine print may have read it because some adverse event has already occurred, to us or a loved one, so no need to wish further upon us; you are not the first to suffer.  Nor is your suffering the worst in history.  Those you experienced such, we have learned to read the fine print and are not surprised at the limits travel companies place upon baggage.  An insurance broker should also be well versed in fine print. 

 

Valuable electronics should never never have been in checked bags.  Your teenagers now know better; I assume the adults already knew better, sigh.  Tough lesson.  I hope they had their receipts.

 

I am glad they tried to clean your clothes, evidently multiple times.

 

 

Airlines have not treated me well when my luggage was delayed.  Even when lost, as I recall, the compensation from airline is quite low.  And travel insurance may require receipts.  And they lose and damage far more luggage.

 

When I say electronics I am not talking about demining equipment or toys but hair straighteners, Electric razors, multiple chargers, travel plugs camera chargers and spare batteries etc.

 

Am I supposed to get a travelling rucksack to walk around with when boarding ? lol

 

As I said the clothes weren't just cleaned they were clearly boiled and tumble dried, which is why we think this was a full disinfecting process.

 

Even swimming shorts were destroyed. Yes they are capable of being in the sea, No they do not like tumble drying

 

After 3 or 4 home washes at home no fabric softener can remove the strange chemical smell form the clothes. It smells like a combination of stale water and a sort of burning odour.

 

We are certainly not in the position we should be which is simply to take our clothes home in the same condition they were given.

 

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3 hours ago, GoldingS666 said:

 

Thanks for all your help and for now me and the other passengers, that I have found to date, will keep the pressure on the stevedores, their insurers and NCL.

 

Where NCL have been terrible is they are the ones with a working contract with the stevedores, not us, and they should not try to butter us up with £100 discount of our next "exciting" holiday with them. Why would I want to give them more money at the moment ? Damn, we only have a year to spend it and not every body cruises every year and frankly I don't have the clothes for it right now. ha ha

 

The stevedores need to appreciate that this is a case of negligence on their part and not us going to their insurers as a form or holiday insurance. Whether the opinion is that the possessions are partial destroyed or this is a total loss the fact remains we are not in the position we should be following the vacation. There should be no question of receipts for items. They should treat each suitcase as a total loss. Its peanuts on the scale of things. 

 

NCL should be running this loss for us as part of their customer service not trying to sweep us under the carpet and keep this hush hush.  It was NCL that were involved in an identical situation in Miami in 2014 and the Pearl was the same ship that 2 weeks before we boarded went into dry dock in Rome and sent passengers home, mostly at their own express.

 

Of course they would win a legal case through expensive lawyers and small print but do they really need more bad PR.

 

My Wife was tearful throughout the cruise and is still depressed now, often breaking down.

Stiff upper lip and all that but the tone of the cruise experience was set the moment the damage happened and the hands off handling that NCL provided during and after the event. They simply are showing no interest in the customers well being.

 

For the sake of doing the right thing they could pay our claim and then go after the stevedores themselves using their power to get this closed quickly. Its a few thousand dollars and an apology. The ship has nearly 1200 staterooms. If they throw in a free cruise, minus any add on benefits, wouldn't this be better PR than tempting their customers to shout from the roof tops about what a lousy company they are. They would then get it all back in excursions, dining experience, drink packages anyway ?

 

Curse of the Black Pearl perhaps 😉

 

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/travel/cruises/2019/07/03/norwegian-cruise-line-thousands-passengers-stranded-barcelona/1638805001/

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/norwegian-cruise-line-pearl-passengers-stuck-barcelona-rome-a8985311.html

 

All the best

First sorry about this happening to you.  We saw the same thing happen on another cruise line and not sure the outcome.  I think the individuals here minimizing your loss are despicable.  I will say my "dream trip" would have been ruined if the majority of my clothing for the week was basically destroyed.  Sorry to all the "wash and wear" types out there, the majority of our clothing never ever gets dried in a clothes dryer and yes our suitcases for trips do contain way in excess of $100 or even $500 worth of belongings.  Also, having recently sailed from Rome, that port is a very industrial dirty port.  I can't imagine what it would take to get them acceptably clean.  I hope you are persistent with your claim.  NCL has many issues with customer service and caring about anything other than collecting the money but they have their cheerleaders on here, maybe next time it will be their luggage 😛

 

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2 minutes ago, All-ready2cruise said:

My advice, be careful with Karma, it can be twice as bad when it comes back to bite you.  

 

I've been through quite a bad time in the last few years, however, my hope is that no one else has to experience it.  I read most of your venting posts here and understand that you're still hanging on to this situation like a dog with his bone. 

 

Get some help for your darling wife and go past this, whether it's by contacting a lawyer and settling your case or by just letting it go. 

 

Good luck whatever your choice. 

 

Thank you. Like you we have had more than a little dramatic 12 months. This is the icing on the cake.

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Just one more reason to pack 3-4 days of clothes along with other stuff into a carry on. Yes, I''m one of those fools who actually brings my carry on AND small back pack onto the ship with me

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8 hours ago, Laszlo said:

Just one more reason to pack 3-4 days of clothes along with other stuff into a carry on. Yes, I''m one of those fools who actually brings my carry on AND small back pack onto the ship with me

I am going to start doing this next time- 

One time I waited with my luggage outside 40 minutes until I was convinced it was going on.

Another time I tipped porter well and he put it right on conveyer belt in front of me

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33 minutes ago, HowardK said:

I am going to start doing this next time- 

One time I waited with my luggage outside 40 minutes until I was convinced it was going on.

Another time I tipped porter well and he put it right on conveyer belt in front of me

On most cruises its pretty easy. My rule of thumb is to have 75% of what your taking between a rolling carry on and a backpack. That includes my clothing, camera stuff, any meds and toiletries. I don't think it ever works out like that but thats our goal. We also have 1 or 2 "Checked" pieces 

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On 10/2/2019 at 9:12 AM, GoldingS666 said:

Many thanks for your input smplybcuase

 

I am aware of this and ironically this has just added to the negative PR they deserve and that I warned them about if I went public with this case and that of Insurers hidden terms and conditions.

 

The general public pay thousands to cruise and airlines who sub contract handling of luggage to incompetent sources and walk away from customers in the even of a loss.

 

NCL actually tried to hide what had happened from us which makes this worse.

 

Travel Insurers boast that you have accidental damage for many thousands of limit

The small print demands that you never throw away receipts so keep those receipts for your lucky socks close to hand.

 

Compensation. Have a pathetic discount off your next exciting holiday with a bunch of incompetent clowns that dont care about your well being.

 

 

 

 

Wait, did you get a discount on a future cruise? We only got $100 for my son’s luggage that wasn’t recovered a couple years ago. We used insurance for another $100 for the loss.

NCL just told us it was lost, but another passenger actually saw it fall in the New York Harbour and she said they didn’t bother to try and recover it. You are lucky if you got some of it back, wet or not. 

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Wow this is really unfortunate and unusual.  

 

Regardless of what the contract states NCL has an obligation to do the right thing by their guests.  They hire the shoreside personnel that handle your luggage to their ship, so yes I feel NCL is ultimately responsible.  

 

I would first pursue all opportunities with NCL, giving them the chance to do the right thing.  It might take a little time and frustration but that is a necessary step one.  If that fails, then by all means seek outside assistance.  Try Elliott Advocacy or perhaps Eric Jordan who was Conde Nast Ombudsman for 12 years.  Also many local newscasters/newspapers will have an ombudsman type person that will take on these types of stories and provide some assistance.  Sometimes the only way big corporations will take notice and do the right thing is by a little outside pressure.  I hope it doesn't come to that.  Good luck!

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8 hours ago, eroller said:

Wow this is really unfortunate and unusual.  

 

Regardless of what the contract states NCL has an obligation to do the right thing by their guests.  They hire the shoreside personnel that handle your luggage to their ship, so yes I feel NCL is ultimately responsible.  

 

I would first pursue all opportunities with NCL, giving them the chance to do the right thing.  It might take a little time and frustration but that is a necessary step one.  If that fails, then by all means seek outside assistance.  Try Elliott Advocacy or perhaps Eric Jordan who was Conde Nast Ombudsman for 12 years.  Also many local newscasters/newspapers will have an ombudsman type person that will take on these types of stories and provide some assistance.  Sometimes the only way big corporations will take notice and do the right thing is by a little outside pressure.  I hope it doesn't come to that.  Good luck!

 

Actually, NCL's obligation is exactly what the contract states.  You're proposing the contract terms be set aside for the benefit of this passenger.  If the shoe were on the other foot and the contract terms were set aside for the benefit of the company I'm sure there would be quite the uproar.

 

What exactly is the "chance to do the right thing"?  They've already done the "right thing" - adhered to the contract (as sucky as it might be).

 

No advocacy agency or media outlet is going to take up the story of someone's lost/damaged luggage who feels they were shafted by the contractual compensation for such event.  If so, there would have to be a dedicated news channel reporting 24 hours a day.

 

The terms concerning the handling (and potential damage/loss) of passenger luggage are fairly consistent across all carriers and have been for a very long time.  If the "big corporations" haven't changed them yet despite not-unusual occurrences such as the one described in this thread, it's unlikely to happen now with "a little outside pressure".

Edited by StolidCruiser

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9 hours ago, eroller said:

Wow this is really unfortunate and unusual.  

 

Regardless of what the contract states NCL has an obligation to do the right thing by their guests.  They hire the shoreside personnel that handle your luggage to their ship, so yes I feel NCL is ultimately responsible.  

 

I would first pursue all opportunities with NCL, giving them the chance to do the right thing.  It might take a little time and frustration but that is a necessary step one.  If that fails, then by all means seek outside assistance.  Try Elliott Advocacy or perhaps Eric Jordan who was Conde Nast Ombudsman for 12 years.  Also many local newscasters/newspapers will have an ombudsman type person that will take on these types of stories and provide some assistance.  Sometimes the only way big corporations will take notice and do the right thing is by a little outside pressure.  I hope it doesn't come to that.  Good luck!

A couple problems.  The port, in all likelihood, controls the stevedores, not the cruise ship docked in the port.  The other problem, as mentioned above, is that NCL’s liability is limited by contract; if one wants extra coverage one should get travel insurance.  Ah, the OP, it seems, did so.  Hence, why not just demand that his travel insurance company pay for the damaged items?  That’s what travel insurance it for!!!! But he says the insurance he chose wants receipts for his damaged items.  Either he chose travel insurance  poorly or that is a mean practice by a travel insurer to limit their liability.  He could wage a PR battle against the travel insurance company.  The insurer can actually examine the damaged items; they should be able to agree on a fair value, receipts or no.  Of the two contracts, that seems to me to be the one more vulnerable to a PR campaign.  Plus, the OP says he is an insurance insider.  Perhaps insurance business practices paid for items in suitcases and insurance business practices took them away...karma?

Edited by Starry Eyes

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On 10/2/2019 at 8:56 PM, DaCruiseBug said:

 

1. Again, you're comparing apples to oranges here.

 

2. Most of the regulations are actually in place for passengers and the public. That's why there's so many more regulations that impact part 121 operators versus part 91 operators. While there are less regulations compared to other countries, airlines usually go above and beyond what the government requires. Proof is required to receive monetary compensation...of course. Otherwise everyone would say there was $3,500 worth of items in the suitcase and losing your luggage would be like hitting the lotto. It's not like with most purchases being made on a credit card you can't provide proof...and even then...most people still scam the system. People rarely claim that there was less than $2,000 worth of items in their luggage because they're looking for a payday when all they had was some garments with a replacement value of probably around $300-400. Now compare it to what cruise lines offer...exactly my point.

Airlines aren't as regulated as people think. Some of the budget lines (Spirit, Allegiant, Frontier) will /have cancelled flight for various reasons not always weather related.

 

And you play hell getting on another flight. Not to mention the initial out of pocket expense . ( Eventually you do get reimbursed some).

 

Heck airlines allow you to book illegal connecting flights ( I believe less than 45 minutes). 

 

Baggage handlers ARE the responsibility of the local port authority , not the cruiselines. Sure it's contracted , but very little they can do. 

 

Cruiselines are at at the mercy of the port authority while in port.

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34 minutes ago, beerman2 said:

Airlines aren't as regulated as people think. Some of the budget lines (Spirit, Allegiant, Frontier) will /have cancelled flight for various reasons not always weather related.

 

And you play hell getting on another flight. Not to mention the initial out of pocket expense . ( Eventually you do get reimbursed some).

 

Heck airlines allow you to book illegal connecting flights ( I believe less than 45 minutes). 

 

Baggage handlers ARE the responsibility of the local port authority , not the cruiselines. Sure it's contracted , but very little they can do. 

 

Cruiselines are at at the mercy of the port authority while in port.

 

There can be many reasons why a flight is cancelled. Could be weather, a maintenance issue, crew legalities etc. 

 

Theres no no such thing as “illegal connection flights”. Not sure where you got that term. Each airline decides what the minimum connection time is and it’s different in each airport.

 

If anything, the General public doesn’t know just how regulated the airlines are. One little thing and the airplane can’t fly. For example, and people ask this all the time, those ashtrays on the outside of the lavatory door...people always ask why they’re still there...well they’re FAA requirement and without them the airplane can’t fly. Read up on FAR Part 121 and see just how regulated airlines are.

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27 minutes ago, DaCruiseBug said:

 

There can be many reasons why a flight is cancelled. Could be weather, a maintenance issue, crew legalities etc. 

 

Theres no no such thing as “illegal connection flights”. Not sure where you got that term. Each airline decides what the minimum connection time is and it’s different in each airport.

 

If anything, the General public doesn’t know just how regulated the airlines are. One little thing and the airplane can’t fly. For example, and people ask this all the time, those ashtrays on the outside of the lavatory door...people always ask why they’re still there...well they’re FAA requirement and without them the airplane can’t fly. Read up on FAR Part 121 and see just how regulated airlines are.

From a Southwest Airline stewardess. Now maybe SHE said the wrong term, but it is exactly what she said. But thanks for your input. The point of the matter is , as much as I think the government gets their hands on things they shouldn't, the government "should" regulate the airlines more. 

 

The biggest thing is airlines should get you from point A to point B on the DAY you purchased the flight for. And that THEY are not obligated to.

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2 hours ago, StolidCruiser said:

 

Actually, NCL's obligation is exactly what the contract states.  You're proposing the contract terms be set aside for the benefit of this passenger.  If the shoe were on the other foot and the contract terms were set aside for the benefit of the company I'm sure there would be quite the uproar.

 

What exactly is the "chance to do the right thing"?  They've already done the "right thing" - adhered to the contract (as sucky as it might be).

 

No advocacy agency or media outlet is going to take up the story of someone's lost/damaged luggage who feels they were shafted by the contractual compensation for such event.  If so, there would have to be a dedicated news channel reporting 24 hours a day.

 

The terms concerning the handling (and potential damage/loss) of passenger luggage are fairly consistent across all carriers and have been for a very long time.  If the "big corporations" haven't changed them yet despite not-unusual occurrences such as the one described in this thread, it's unlikely to happen now with "a little outside pressure".

 

 

What I'm suggesting is that a company does the right thing by their customer regardless of what the contract states.  Simple as that.  Surely that concept is not that difficult to understand.  Dropping your luggage into the ocean is not a usual occurrence.  It was negligance and ultimately I feel NCL is responsible.  The luggage was being loaded onto their ship and belonged to one of their paying passengers.  

 

Companies do the right thing all the time believe it or not, even if it goes above and beyond what their liability states.  Companies can also be sued regardless of what their liability states.  That happens all the time as well.  Personally I believe that some type of ombudsman would take on this case, regardless of what NCL's liability contract states because it is such an unusual circumstance.  

Edited by eroller

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23 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

 

What I'm suggesting is that a company does the right thing by their customer regardless of what the contract states.  Simple as that.  Surely that concept is not that difficult to understand.  Dropping your luggage into the ocean is not a usual occurrence.  It was negligance and ultimately I feel NCL is responsible.  The luggage was being loaded onto their ship and belonged to one of their paying passengers.  

 

Companies do the right thing all the time believe it or not, even if it goes above and beyond what their liability states.  Companies can also be sued regardless of what their liability states.  That happens all the time as well.  Personally I believe that some type of ombudsman would take on this case, regardless of what NCL's liability contract states because it is such an unusual circumstance.  

Why shouldn’t the port step up and do the right thing? NCL is just as liable as the passenger who lost his luggage. Why shouldn’t the insurance step up and do the right thing? 

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23 minutes ago, eroller said:

 

 

What I'm suggesting is that a company does the right thing by their customer regardless of what the contract states.  Simple as that.  Surely that concept is not that difficult to understand.  Dropping your luggage into the ocean is not a usual occurrence.  It was negligance and ultimately I feel NCL is responsible.  The luggage was being loaded onto their ship and belonged to one of their paying passengers.  

 

Companies do the right thing all the time believe it or not, even if it goes above and beyond what their liability states.  Companies can also be sued regardless of what their liability states.  That happens all the time as well.  Personally I believe that some type of ombudsman would take on this case, regardless of what NCL's liability contract states because it is such an unusual circumstance.  

 

It really has nothing to do with the contract...it is purely a time and place issue. NCL shouldn't be responsible for luggage that isn't under their care. If they were, where would it end? What if the taxicab company damaged my luggage while transporting me between the airport and the ship? Should the cruise line pay since I am their customer or am I actually a customer of the cab company at that point?

 

Your luggage is taken from you by the Port and delivered in good condition to the cruise line. From the time you give the luggage to the Porter until the time that luggage is on the ship, you are a customer of the Port Authority. It is THEIR responsibility to take care of you...not the responsibility of the next company you will be a customer of.

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6 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

 

 

Your luggage is taken from you by the Port and delivered in good condition to the cruise line. From the time you give the luggage to the Porter until the time that luggage is on the ship, you are a customer of the Port Authority. It is THEIR responsibility to take care of you...not the responsibility of the next company you will be a customer of.


in this case, based on what we know, a paying passengers luggage was being transported from the terminal that NCL pays to use, by luggage handlers that NCL also pays to use, to a ship that NCL owns. I see some ownership there regardless of the contract.  Also for all we know the luggage could have been dropped in the water by an NCL employee in the ship receiving luggage from the stevedores shoreside.  I don’t know all the details and I doubt NCL will share them, but in muddied waters like these (no pun intended) I think NCL should step up and do the right thing by their customer.  Sometimes a good gesture, even if it’s not legally required goes a long way and is the right thing to do.  I would say even more so if the passengers are loyal repeat customers to NCL.  

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1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

From a Southwest Airline stewardess. Now maybe SHE said the wrong term, but it is exactly what she said. But thanks for your input. The point of the matter is , as much as I think the government gets their hands on things they shouldn't, the government "should" regulate the airlines more. 

 

The biggest thing is airlines should get you from point A to point B on the DAY you purchased the flight for. And that THEY are not obligated to.

 

If you purchase a ticket you get a seat on the flight you purchased the ticket for. If there’s bad weather and the flight cancels then I’m not sure how the flight is supposed to operate anyways. An airline operation isn’t like Greyhound...even tho Greyhound tickets in many cases are more expensive than airline tickets.

 

If a flight cancels for a reason other than weather the airline will put you up in a hotel and give you meal vouchers. This, actually ends up costing the airline MUCH more than what profits they would have made on such flight. Airlines don’t just cancel flights for the heck of it. It’s actually illegal to cancel a flight because it isn’t full enough.

 

Compare a plane ticket from NY to LA to the price of an Amtrak or Greyhound ticket. You can generally buy a ticket for $100-150 each way...and travel about 3,000 miles. How much would it cost to drive that?

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21 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

Why shouldn’t the port step up and do the right thing? NCL is just as liable as the passenger who lost his luggage. Why shouldn’t the insurance step up and do the right thing? 


Maybe they should, but it’s likely difficult for a US based customer to try and deal with what is likely a government based entity in Italy.  Surely the contract that NCL has with the stevedore company probably addresses issues like this, and NCL may very well receive compensation if there was negligence on behalf of the stevedore company.  In that case NCL should be the advocate for their customer and take action against the stevedore company they contracted with themselves. 

Edited by eroller

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3 minutes ago, eroller said:


Maybe they should, but it’s likely difficult for a US based customer to try and deal with what is likely a government based entity in Italy.  Surely the contract that NCL has with the stevedore company probably addresses issues like this, and NCL May very well receive compensation if there was negligence on behalf of the stevedore company.  In that case NCL should be the advocate for their customer and take action against the stevedore company they contracted with themselves. 

 

You're conflating...NCL has a contract with the Port Authority for services. You also have a contact with the Port Authority for the safe delivery of your luggage to your intended ship.

 

The Port Authority has failed in their duty in their contract with you. They are the ones who need to make things right.

 

If the Port Authority was approached instead of wasting time trying to blame things on a cruise that hasn't even started yet, this probably would have already been resolved. 90% of getting a problem resolved is dealing with the proper party.

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6 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

You're conflating...NCL has a contract with the Port Authority for services. You also have a contact with the Port Authority for the safe delivery of your luggage to your intended ship.

 

The Port Authority has failed in their duty in their contract with you. They are the ones who need to make things right.

 

If the Port Authority was approached instead of wasting time trying to blame things on a cruise that hasn't even started yet, this probably would have already been resolved. 90% of getting a problem resolved is dealing with the proper party.


 

Neither you nor I know exactly what the contract is between NCL and the port authority and stevedores.  One thing is for certain, it probably addresses negligence and certain penalties are likely.  NCL should in good faith do right by their customer and then possibly seek compensation from the port authority/stevedores they contracted with.  
 

As for the port authority being approached, when?  It’s likely they didn’t even find out about the luggage until after the ship sailed, and it’s also likely there was a different disembarkation port at the end of the cruise. 

 

I’m not conflicting at all. I just put more faith in a companies ability to do right by their customer in a very unusual circumstance than you do.  

Edited by eroller

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13 minutes ago, eroller said:


 

Neither you nor I know exactly what the contract is between NCL and the port authority and stevedores.  One thing is for certain, it probably addresses negligence and certain penalties are likely.  NCL should in good faith do right by their customer and then possibly seek compensation from the port authority/stevedores they contracted with.  
 

As for the port authority being approached, when?  It’s likely they didn’t even find out about the luggage until after the ship sailed, and it’s also likely there was a different disembarkation port at the end of the cruise. 

 

I’m not conflicting at all. I just put more faith in a companies ability to do right by their customer in a very unusual circumstance than you do.  

 

As the OP has stated, but in the initial post and in posts that were deleted yesterday, they had to LEAVE the ship to collect their luggage from the pier after this incident...they then carried the luggage onboard themselves. All were aware before the ship sailed and the disembarkation port has nothing to do with it.

 

Like the disembarkation port, the contract that NCL has with the port is irrelevant. You have an implied contact for services the minute you hand the luggage to the porter and the porter accepts it from you. That contract is between you and the Port and you have every right to seek proper remedies under that contract. You just can't say...well, I was on my way to a cruise so the cruise line should be responsible for what happens before I get there.

 

Sure, they are customers of NCL, but they were NOT when the suffered the loss. One company is not responsible for losses you incur while you are dealing with a different company.

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