Looks like Sky Princess has norovirus - boarding delayed

[CynCyn]

2 hours ago, Expat Cruise said:

I'm sorry but I see this another way, I really do not believe it is on the passengers, I believe it starts with the crew. You really need to understand most crew members come from third world countries and have no idea about food safety until they start working for the cruise line.  I see this everyday, go to the local markets in the Philippines and you find fresh meat and fish out in the open, no refrigeration, no packaging just laid in bins. Most family do not even understand refrigeration, leaving cook foods out at room temperature to eat later. 

 

So it becomes very hard to train people to change what they have been doing their whole life. Add in a new ship with new crew and limited training on the ship and these outbreaks happen. Having spent the last 20 years outside the United States, most of that time in third world countries.....what my friends visiting cannot eat I seem to have no issues with. Most travelers are exposed to bacteria that is foreign to their systems.  This is one of the leading reasons people get sick. 

 

The bottom line is if you travel , you may have these issues with gastrointestinal illness. You need to be prepared. We travel with a complete personal pharmacy, drugs for almost anything that could come up during the cruise. (All legal with a visit to the doctors office first).

Agree.  I see it with new teachers being exposed to ‘kid germs’ when they first come to work.  It’s happened to me when I change schools-different germs.  We all have tolerance for the things we are exposed to, so putting all of these people together from different environments creates a ‘germ soup’!

[Geoffa30]

Without saying too much, the one crew member we know who was affected (possibly the first one) was a white person from the First World...

[Geoffa30]

BTW it’s 1335 and we’re still sat in the Vista Lounge. Seemingly the ship opens at 1400.

[Geoffa30]

It’s now 1507 and we’re still waiting to get back into our stateroom. Not happy at all. None of the notices suggested we’d be outside of our rooms for seven hours. 

[frugaltravel]

1 hour ago, Geoffa30 said:

It’s now 1507 and we’re still waiting to get back into our stateroom. Not happy at all. None of the notices suggested we’d be outside of our rooms for seven hours. 

Better that than more infections on the new sailing. Think of the tradeoff 😀

[PaperSniper4]

17 hours ago, liamur14 said:

Dirty Passengers ! 🙁

 

Yep, simply washing one's hands is an excellent preventative measure for both spreading and contracting most illnesses. But try to get folks to do that!😧

[Coral]

1 hour ago, Geoffa30 said:

It’s now 1507 and we’re still waiting to get back into our stateroom. Not happy at all. None of the notices suggested we’d be outside of our rooms for seven hours. 

I am guessing they are doing the best they can. They take the sanitizing seriously.

[Geoffa30]

Just now, Coral said:

I am guessing they are doing the best they can. They take the sanitizing seriously.

Totally understand the need to sanitise the ship due to irresponsible passengers but they should have made it clear the process was likely to take all day and we would have planned our day accordingly. The notice we received read as though everything would be sorted by 1130. Based on the price we paid for our cruise I believe we are due a refund of £130. 

[Coral]

5 minutes ago, Geoffa30 said:

Totally understand the need to sanitise the ship due to irresponsible passengers but they should have made it clear the process was likely to take all day and we would have planned our day accordingly. The notice we received read as though everything would be sorted by 1130. Based on the price we paid for our cruise I believe we are due a refund of £130. 

Part of traveling is going with the flow. While they may do something to compensate you, I don't think it is necessary. Preventing norovirus and sanitizing the ship is the top priority.

 

I understand it is frustrating but things happen. We were kicked off a ship in Whittier, AK once while they sanitized a ship. We sat in the atrium for 2-3 hours and then took a 4 hour excursion and returned to the ship then. We all had to leave the ship, no choice. I hear it is raining there - would you prefer to have done that?

Edited November 3, 2019 by Coral

[dog]

16 minutes ago, Coral said:

understand it is frustrating but things happen. We were kicked off a ship in Whittier, AK once while they sanitized a ship. We sat in the atrium for 2-3 hours and then took a 4 hour excursion and returned to the ship then. We all had to leave the ship, no choice. I hear it is raining there - would you prefer to have done that?

 

I would plan an excursion if this happens in the future. Things always seem to take longer, when you are waiting for it to happen.

So sorry for those on board now.

I will be on the Sky for the Dec 4/19 sailing.

[Geoffa30]

1 hour ago, Coral said:

Part of traveling is going with the flow. While they may do something to compensate you, I don't think it is necessary. Preventing norovirus and sanitizing the ship is the top priority.

 

I understand it is frustrating but things happen. We were kicked off a ship in Whittier, AK once while they sanitized a ship. We sat in the atrium for 2-3 hours and then took a 4 hour excursion and returned to the ship then. We all had to leave the ship, no choice. I hear it is raining there - would you prefer to have done that?

Clear communication is key. Perhaps we would have elected to take an excursion if we had been told the process was to take all day.

 

Got to love CC. People moan about the tiniest things - where’s my gold toiletry bag etc. - but expect people to go with the flow when their cruise which cost thousands of pounds is disrupted.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Geoffa30

[Coral]

2 minutes ago, Geoffa30 said:

 

Got to love CC. People moan about the tiniest things - where’s my gold toiletry bag etc. - but expect people to go with flow when their cruise which cost thousands of pounds is disrupted.

I didn't complain when we were forced off the ship in Whittier, AK. Life happens.

 

Princess didn't want norovirus anymore on your ship than you did.

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Coral

[hobbyfarmer2]

12 hours ago, Expat Cruise said:

I'm sorry but I see this another way, I really do not believe it is on the passengers, I believe it starts with the crew. You really need to understand most crew members come from third world countries and have no idea about food safety until they start working for the cruise line.  I see this everyday, go to the local markets in the Philippines and you find fresh meat and fish out in the open, no refrigeration, no packaging just laid in bins. Most family do not even understand refrigeration, leaving cook foods out at room temperature to eat later. 

 

So it becomes very hard to train people to change what they have been doing their whole life. Add in a new ship with new crew and limited training on the ship and these outbreaks happen. Having spent the last 20 years outside the United States, most of that time in third world countries.....what my friends visiting cannot eat I seem to have no issues with. Most travelers are exposed to bacteria that is foreign to their systems.  This is one of the leading reasons people get sick. 

 

The bottom line is if you travel , you may have these issues with gastrointestinal illness. You need to be prepared. We travel with a complete personal pharmacy, drugs for almost anything that could come up during the cruise. (All legal with a visit to the doctors office first).

There may be a slight flaw in your logic.  The crew sails every cruise on a ship but not all cruises have a Noro problem. 

 

While the crew may contribute to the problem as you state, it makes more sense to focus on the variable part of the situation as the major contribution which would be the passengers.

 

We were on Noro alert on Regal last April.  A women cut into the breakfast line and grabbed a couple of slices of bacon with her fingers.  A male passenger behind us both started yelling, "Are you kidding....." at her.

 

I have been in the kitchens and they have great kit and the kitchen crew is watched constantly.  The line's profits depend on this.   I do not believe the crew is the main problem.  Slovenly passengers are.

[DebbieMacG]

14 hours ago, Expat Cruise said:

I'm sorry but I see this another way, I really do not believe it is on the passengers, I believe it starts with the crew. You really need to understand most crew members come from third world countries and have no idea about food safety until they start working for the cruise line.  I see this everyday, go to the local markets in the Philippines and you find fresh meat and fish out in the open, no refrigeration, no packaging just laid in bins. Most family do not even understand refrigeration, leaving cook foods out at room temperature to eat later. 

 

So it becomes very hard to train people to change what they have been doing their whole life. Add in a new ship with new crew and limited training on the ship and these outbreaks happen. Having spent the last 20 years outside the United States, most of that time in third world countries.....what my friends visiting cannot eat I seem to have no issues with. Most travelers are exposed to bacteria that is foreign to their systems.  This is one of the leading reasons people get sick. 

 

The bottom line is if you travel , you may have these issues with gastrointestinal illness. You need to be prepared. We travel with a complete personal pharmacy, drugs for almost anything that could come up during the cruise. (All legal with a visit to the doctors office first).

 Another flaw is that a lot of these crew do training before they even come on the ship and before even working for the cruise line, often back in their own countries, they need this basic introduction to even be able to get a job in the first place. This applies to staff from ALL countries.

 

 I know this because my son-in-law is from Sri Lanka and a lot of people he knows get jobs in the cruise industry. 

 

I personally think it’s just as likely that somebody came on the ship with a tummy bug perhaps they didn’t even realise they had it when boarding and they spread it about.

Edited November 4, 2019 by DebbieMacG

[pjrockman]

1 hour ago, hobbyfarmer2 said:

There may be a slight flaw in your logic.

Just a slight flaw??!!??

 

I tried to ignore it.  Comparing a viral outbreak with a bacterial?  Food poisoning (usually bacterial) with Norovirus?  Confusing source of virus with means of spreading it.  
 

I’ll end with the third world employees’ comment...Really?  Many of these outbreaks are in USA schools and nursing homes and on cruises originating in our Country.  Just like a viral flu, Norovirus happens in every country and in environs that have a lot of people in a confined area.  Likewise, a bacterial salmonella or e-Coli outbreak happens in every country.....like our current ground beef salmonella outbreak.

 

Cruise lines have developed a pretty good process of containment over the years.

 

Safe Journeys, Paul

[Expat Cruise]

4 hours ago, hobbyfarmer2 said:

There may be a slight flaw in your logic.  The crew sails every cruise on a ship but not all cruises have a Noro problem. 

 

While the crew may contribute to the problem as you state, it makes more sense to focus on the variable part of the situation as the major contribution which would be the passengers.

 

We were on Noro alert on Regal last April.  A women cut into the breakfast line and grabbed a couple of slices of bacon with her fingers.  A male passenger behind us both started yelling, "Are you kidding....." at her.

 

I have been in the kitchens and they have great kit and the kitchen crew is watched constantly.  The line's profits depend on this.   I do not believe the crew is the main problem.  Slovenly passengers are.

 The cruise lines only report if they hit the legal limit.....Anything under this limited is not reported. I think you will find these issues on all ships but most of the time they have them under control. 

2 hours ago, DebbieMacG said:

 Another flaw is that a lot of these crew do training before they even come on the ship and before even working for the cruise line, often back in their own countries, they need this basic introduction to even be able to get a job in the first place. This applies to staff from ALL countries.

 

 I know this because my son-in-law is from Sri Lanka and a lot of people he knows get jobs in the cruise industry. 

 

I personally think it’s just as likely that somebody came on the ship with a tummy bug perhaps they didn’t even realise they had it when boarding and they spread it about.

Really want to talk about crew training before the being on the ship.... it is a joke. Lets talk about the Philippines because most crew members come from here.  It is easy to get the paperwork for this training.  Even if they go to the training it takes much more than a class to train people here. I'm involved in a business here that hires many workers, we are able to terminate about 1/3 of them within the first month because they cannot even get the idea of clocking in and out of work down. A full 1/3 cannot remember to punch a time clock.... you really think they understand food safety?  Sorry that is a dream world.

 

Yes some comes on with the guests but the main place for these issues I believe is with the crew.

 

[caribill]

In the USA, norovirus infections are the 2nd most common illness (per the CDC) with only the common cold affecting more people. This is over 20,000,000 known cases annually.

 

I have not seen the numbers, but I suspect that less than 1000 cruise ship passengers a year on USA sailings come down with a norovirus illness. Possibly more, but not significant in relation to the 20 million that do contract noro in the USA each year..

 

Noro cases on cruise ships need to reported after a threshold number. And it makes a great story on the TV news about a noro situation on a cruise ship. But noro cases in schools, office buildings, factories, at home, etc. do not have to be reported to the CDC. Those 20 million people suffer without the publicity.

 

In many cases the noro shows up on a cruise within a day or two of embarkation. Chances are one or more passengers became infected while traveling to the embarkation port in an airport or on a plane. People so infected are contagious before they have symptoms presenting, so the noro is spread before anyone knows it has come aboard.

 

The cruise lines allow infected passengers to roam the ship again after 24-48 hours after symptoms disappear. However, the CDC says such people can still be contagious for several more days. 

[DebbieMacG]

7 hours ago, Expat Cruise said:

 The cruise lines only report if they hit the legal limit.....Anything under this limited is not reported. I think you will find these issues on all ships but most of the time they have them under control. 

Really want to talk about crew training before the being on the ship.... it is a joke. Lets talk about the Philippines because most crew members come from here.  It is easy to get the paperwork for this training.  Even if they go to the training it takes much more than a class to train people here. I'm involved in a business here that hires many workers, we are able to terminate about 1/3 of them within the first month because they cannot even get the idea of clocking in and out of work down. A full 1/3 cannot remember to punch a time clock.... you really think they understand food safety?  Sorry that is a dream world.

 

Yes some comes on with the guests but the main place for these issues I believe is with the crew.

 

Doesn’t that mean the person training them to clock in and out is at fault? That’s where I would be looking if you are losing a third of employees a month, or perhaps it’s the people interviewing them and giving them a job in the first place?

 

Given your knowledge I’m surprised you cruise at all!

[Expat Cruise]

15 minutes ago, DebbieMacG said:

Doesn’t that mean the person training them to clock in and out is at fault? That’s where I would be looking if you are losing a third of employees a month, or perhaps it’s the people interviewing them and giving them a job in the first place?

 

Given your knowledge I’m surprised you cruise at all!

Really blame the training? How much training does it take to tell  people you must log in and log out of your shift. They also sign a terms & conditions of work that tell them they can be terminated for not logging in and out... And they still cannot understand or remember to do so.  The truth is you can offer all the training you want the education levels are so low very hard to train even for simple things. So I'm absolutely must have not understanding of food safety...

 

Why would I stop cruising I do not get sick I have all these third world  bacteria in my system and can tolerate them?  I go to Bali and I'm fine you go and you get Bali Belly.... In 40 years and almost 90 cruises never have had food poisoning on a cruise.   

[DebbieMacG]

48 minutes ago, Expat Cruise said:

Really blame the training? How much training does it take to tell  people you must log in and log out of your shift. They also sign a terms & conditions of work that tell them they can be terminated for not logging in and out... And they still cannot understand or remember to do so.  The truth is you can offer all the training you want the education levels are so low very hard to train even for simple things. So I'm absolutely must have not understanding of food safety...

 

Why would I stop cruising I do not get sick I have all these third world  bacteria in my system and can tolerate them?  I go to Bali and I'm fine you go and you get Bali Belly.... In 40 years and almost 90 cruises never have had food poisoning on a cruise.   

I employ a lot of people and if I was losing a third of my workforce because they couldn’t log in and out, I would definitely be looking at how they were trained and how they were recruited but each to their own. 

 

Hopefully this latest issue will be sorted out with the deep clean 😀

[pjrockman]

Some of these posts are so bizarre, it must be trolling.  However, if not, I’m glad it’s not my picture in the profile for the proverbial lugie in the plate.

 

Once again, Norovirus is not food poisoning.  The generalizations found in some of these posts are astounding in 2019.

 

Safe Journeys, Paul

[hobbyfarmer2]

13 minutes ago, pjrockman said:

Some of these posts are so bizarre, it must be trolling.  However, if not, I’m glad it’s not my picture in the profile for the proverbial lugie in the plate.

 

Once again, Norovirus is not food poisoning.  The generalizations found in some of these posts are astounding in 2019.

 

Safe Journeys, Paul

I suspect a few have their mind absolutely set on this because they are certain that crew spreads the virus.  The posters do not seem to accept the difference between a virus that is spread by infected people and illness caused by food poisoned by bacteria, eg. E Coli or salmonella.  Noro is a virus, not bacteria and can only get into food if handled by a Noro contagious person.  It will not get there by spoilage or improper cooking methods. 

 

I wash my hands with soap and water at least a dozen times/day when on board.  I try to keep my hands off railings and almost always open washroom doors with a paper towel when possible.  Try not to touch any part of your face with your hands as well.  It's like baseball - just try to stack up the odds in your favor.  It won't reduce the odds to zero, but it will help.

[Expat Cruise]

59 minutes ago, hobbyfarmer2 said:

I suspect a few have their mind absolutely set on this because they are certain that crew spreads the virus.  The posters do not seem to accept the difference between a virus that is spread by infected people and illness caused by food poisoned by bacteria, eg. E Coli or salmonella.  Noro is a virus, not bacteria and can only get into food if handled by a Noro contagious person.  It will not get there by spoilage or improper cooking methods. 

 

I wash my hands with soap and water at least a dozen times/day when on board.  I try to keep my hands off railings and almost always open washroom doors with a paper towel when possible.  Try not to touch any part of your face with your hands as well.  It's like baseball - just try to stack up the odds in your favor.  It won't reduce the odds to zero, but it will help.

You are correct but many people who get sick on cruise ships is from food poisoning. Also if your system is weaken by Bacteria you are more likely to get virus.  The CDC has very good information for those interested. https://www.cdc.gov/norovirus/index.html

The three main ways to spread and all can happen on cruise ships.

• Having direct contact with an infected person
• Consuming contaminated food or water
• Touching contaminated surfaces then putting your unwashed hands in your mouth

Edited November 4, 2019 by Expat Cruise

[Daniel A]

First off, the notice says nothing about Norovirus.  Gastroenteritis is not solely caused by Norovirus - there are many other classes of viruses that will cause gastroenteritis. 

 

On ‎11‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 7:34 AM, Geoffa30 said:

Without saying too much, the one crew member we know who was affected (possibly the first one) was a white person from the First World...

How could this person be "the first one"?  There's no such thing as "spontaneous infection."  That crew member had to get it from someone else's infection.

 

44 minutes ago, hobbyfarmer2 said:

The posters do not seem to accept the difference between a virus that is spread by infected people and illness caused by food poisoned by bacteria, eg. E Coli or salmonella.  Noro is a virus, not bacteria and can only get into food if handled by a Noro contagious person.  It will not get there by spoilage or improper cooking methods. 

 

I think Expat Cruise was merely pointing out the poor sanitation procedures imbedded in the culture.  I don't think he was confusing food poisoning with gastroenteritis.  It takes more than an hour or two of training to get workers to practice infection control procedures on a daily basis.  It doesn't take third world culture to have workers skip proper infection control procedures.  It isn't the patients spreading MRSA, C DIFF and any number of other infectious diseases in our health care facilities.  Hospital staff members get a lot more than an hour or two of training in infection control procedures but these illnesses run rampant through hospitals and nursing homes every day.  (I'm not slamming hospital workers, I'm just pointing out that even well educated and trained personnel can unintentionally spread infectious diseases.)