Check my math ...

[Oville]

5 minutes ago, villauk said:

 

 

If you don’t take it as a perk and pay full price (or the 50% off as appears to be happening on quite a few cruises according to recent posts) , you don’t pay the extra $14pppd.

Thanks for pointing that out, so the two perk option is awful.

[villauk]

22 minutes ago, varoo said:

Often they show up later as the cruise date draws closer, especially if they have a lot of unsold cabins.

That is when they offer the lower prices in the various discount categories as well, sometimes practically giving away unsold cabins.

 

 

Then they would be after final payment and you’d have to pay the full amount upfront, as well as being in the cancellation penalty period anyway - so back to the non-refundable element. However, it looks like it will be the best option in the future when booking X, especially good for those pax who are able to wait until the last minute to book.

[mac_tlc]

Really muddles the math to compare a refundable to a non-refundable rate. I have seen differences of $100pp to over $700pp for refundable deposit rates.

 

My non-scientific observations seem to show the two-perk options are superior to the four-perk options, if you are trying to determine if the perks are cheaper by adding them in or doing a la carte. 
 

mac_tlc

[Caribbean Chris]

With higher prices, this new service charge added to the drink package, and the non refundable deposits, Celebrity has become three times less attractive to me for future bookings. 

[hcat]

2 hours ago, Oville said:

Thanks for pointing that out, so the two perk option is awful.

But you could pick 2 other perks ..OBC and grats..Neither incurs a daily extra upcharge. 

 Glad dh is into spreadsheets but it is disappointing it has become so complicated!

[Alsmez]

36 minutes ago, hcat said:

But you could pick 2 other perks ..OBC and grats..Neither incurs a daily extra upcharge.

 

True, but the retail value of the other perks is so much lower that choosing them makes it an even worse deal, even without the extra surcharge. The internet package is $20-25pppd on most cruises (I think), gratuities are around $15pppd depending on room type, and the OBC is a flat $150pp no matter the length of the cruise. On a 10 day cruise any two of those perks are worth $400pp max. 

[Oville]

58 minutes ago, hcat said:

But you could pick 2 other perks ..OBC and grats..Neither incurs a daily extra upcharge. 

 Glad dh is into spreadsheets but it is disappointing it has become so complicated!

Interestingly I checked on adding another cruise to our November Apex and the two perks including the Classic Bev were really cheap.  As the OP reported, check the math.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Oville

[bikerunner]

28 minutes ago, Oville said:

Interestingly I checked on adding another cruise to our November Apex and the two perks including the Classic Bev were really cheap.  As the OP reported, check the math.

I Agree but the apex n edge are still priced at an overall pp a day higher rate so they don’t need to put a huge surcharge for refundable rates when adding in perks. 

[cruise kitty]

I"m actually wondering if this is an error on X's website....  checking the pricing for the same cruise as the OP on a big box store website, pricing for a verandah guarantee is:  

 

$4240.08 for a non refundable deluxe verandah guarantee w/classic beverage pkg, $300 USD OBC + an additional $100 USD OBC

 

$3560 for non refundable deluxe verandah guarantee w/no perks at all.

 

It's $680 to add the two perks (total for two people, so for $340 per person you get $400 OBC + Classic drink package....  if you book through the big box agency

 

I can't understand why the price for the refundable deposit is so much higher on Celebrity's website, seems crazy 

[RickT]

bhughey, shame on you for double checking Celebrity’s math (math’s for my U.K. friends)... no good can come of that...😋

 

Love Celebrity, hate their website and hate having to do mathematical gyrations to figure out what the best price option is.  Rebooked my current cruise 4 times due to their ever changing pricing and even wound up booking in US $ due to their wacky Canadian exchange rate.  
 

Glad you could see through the smoke and mirrors.

Edited November 6, 2019 by RickT

[ipeeinthepool]

12 hours ago, Alsmez said:

 

The website says you will receive a future cruise credit, minus a $100pp service charge, that expires 12 months after the date of issue. So if you still planned to cruise with Celebrity and just needed to change your sailing, you'd only be out $200 - less if you book during one of those $25 deposit sales or some such.

 

But as others have pointed out, there are occasions where the prices have been reduced and we rebook under a new cheaper deal.  I think you would get hit with this penalty every time you re-booked.

[Alsmez]

1 hour ago, ipeeinthepool said:

 

But as others have pointed out, there are occasions where the prices have been reduced and we rebook under a new cheaper deal.  I think you would get hit with this penalty every time you re-booked.

 

I thought I read somewhere that you can get price drops and/or upgrade your room without penalty on a non-refundable fare - it's only if you cancel and change to an entirely different cruise that you pay the fee. I might be wrong about that, though.

[ipeeinthepool]

21 minutes ago, Alsmez said:

 

I thought I read somewhere that you can get price drops and/or upgrade your room without penalty on a non-refundable fare - it's only if you cancel and change to an entirely different cruise that you pay the fee. I might be wrong about that, though.

 

Perhaps your right about the deposit, I never saw that waiver.  I tried to search Celebrity's website for the detailed terms and conditions and this is what I found.  Perhaps someday they'll supply the link so we'll know.

 

"Visit [insert URL for NRP Full terms and conditions] for additional terms and conditions."

 

[Iamcruzin]

14 hours ago, Alsmez said:

 

 (retail price on the internet package plus $300 OBC). 

Celebrity's internet price, if purchasing separately  is way over priced compared to Royal Caribbean and Princess so even that value is questionable.  There is no guarantee that it will even work.

[Iamcruzin]

14 hours ago, villauk said:

 It’s in the title - X are hoping you don’t check the maths 😉.

 

I’ve come to the conclusion that many pax just ask for the total cost of the particular cruise they’re interested in, together with the ‘perks’ included, and have no idea how the figure is constructed. And that’s exactly the clients X are after.

I agree because most don't even know what the daily price of the drink package is or the daily gratuities. I myself who is up to date on this can't even remember the daily gratuity charge from room to room and cruise line to cruise line.

[Iamcruzin]

14 hours ago, varoo said:

 

Often they show up later as the cruise date draws closer, especially if they have a lot of unsold cabins.

That is when they offer the lower prices in the various discount categories as well, sometimes practically giving away unsold cabins.

 

Waiting can be a gamble though, especially if it is a rare and unusual cruise that may sell out.

But for cruises where there are lots of ships offering similar itineraries, waiting can often yield a great bargain, especially if you qualify for several different  discount categories and are not super picky about your cabin.

 

 

 

 

 

Well they must be getting desperate. I get at least 2 emails a day with last minute deals from them and one was even a resident/senior discount which I have never received before. I barely get any from Royal Caribbean or Princess.

[Alsmez]

38 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

Visit [insert URL for NRP Full terms and conditions] for additional terms and conditions."

 

Lol. Why am I not surprised? 

[sanger727]

Just a guess here, but they may be considering the refundable deposit to be at a large premium over a non-refundable deposit. And whether or not that is worth it in my opinion is entirely up to your ability to take advantage of price drops under a non-refundable deposit. Has anyone booked under that and tried to take advantage of a price drop? We book our cruises pretty much as soon as we decide we want to take one (12-18 months in advance usually), because we could always take advantage of price drops if they did happen.

 

I also wonder if X is intentionally penalizing people who want a refundable deposit because of how much it can manipulate the pricing. On my last cruise it appeared that many people booked the cruise without knowing if they would go or not. We booked 18 months out but as 12 months out approached the prices skyrocketed and continued to sky rocket until final payment when they had an enormous drop. I assume that meant many people booked on a whim and then canceled right before final payment when they decided not to go. So, until X offers a refundable deposit without perks it's hard to know how much they are valuing that at.

 

I think that X is just lumping everything together and hoping that the whole is worth more to people than the sum of the parts. Kinda like how car dealers like to lump upgrades together into packages. On my car I wanted to a rear view camera but they didn't sell those separately, I had to get the technology package which had an upgraded stereo with it. X is making it so if you want perks you get nonrefundable deposit and if you want nonrefundable deposit, you get perks.

[dd likes to cruise]

Companies are just hoping that some shoppers will not compare. (Not just cruise companies).  If they only click on the option for “perks” they don’t know they are paying more.  I believe they all get many uninformed shoppers that way all the time. 

[Alsmez]

13 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

think that X is just lumping everything together and hoping that the whole is worth more to people than the sum of the parts.

 

I understand that X is "bundling" the refundable fare with "perks" in the same way that car manufacturers bundle features into packages. However, in this case they are rewarding customers on one hand while simultaneously penalizing them for behavior they want to encourage. Non-refundable deposits are great for X because they are effectively an interest-free loan to the company, and can be treated as "money in the bank" in a way that refundable deposits cannot. They also discourage the book-then-cancel behavior you mention. Given this, you would think X would want to make this type of deposit as attractive as possible, and on paper the reduced fares are enticing. However, by not allowing these passengers to take advantage of reduced rates on drink packages, etc., they are erasing that benefit (depending on the refundable price, of course) and effectively penalizing them after the fact. IMO this is a very good way to alienate first-time and long-term customers alike.

[Iamcruzin]

31 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

 

I also wonder if X is intentionally penalizing people who want a refundable deposit because of how much it can manipulate the pricing. On my last cruise it appeared that many people booked the cruise without knowing if they would go or not. We booked 18 months out but as 12 months out approached the prices skyrocketed and continued to sky rocket until final payment when they had an enormous drop. I assume that meant many people booked on a whim and then canceled right before final payment when they decided not to go. So, until X offers a refundable deposit without perks it's hard to know how much they are valuing that at.

 

 

I am one who is guilty of this. I will book a cruise far out and if our vacation time doesn't work out with our jobs or if a better deal on another cruise line becomes available I will cancel. However they should have a basic  refundable fare that doesn't involve having to take on the additional expense of a drink package and such. From what I can see with all of the last minute emails I get it would be better to wait it out. We don't sail on any exotic itineraries and really don't care about what ship we are on.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Iamcruzin

[Iamcruzin]

25 minutes ago, dd likes to cruise said:

Companies are just hoping that some shoppers will not compare. (Not just cruise companies).  If they only click on the option for “perks” they don’t know they are paying more.  I believe they all get many uninformed shoppers that way all the time. 

They are only kidding themselves. With all of the search engines out there even here on CC it is easier than ever to compare prices for similar itineraries. Millennials who grew up with computers have already been trained to do this. There are shopping sites that allow you to do this with any product.  I did this with a kitchen appliance and found out that Bed Bath and Beyond was always 20% higher in price for the same product than any of the it's competitors.  So basically that 20% coupon is built into the price. People don't shop blindly anymore. They compare prices before they make a purchase. The only passengers that Celebrity has a chance with are those who are locked into the loyalty program where it still may be a better choice financially to sail with them. I'm not there yet and probably never will be.

[jagoffee]

49 minutes ago, Alsmez said:

 

I understand that X is "bundling" the refundable fare with "perks" in the same way that car manufacturers bundle features into packages. However, in this case they are rewarding customers on one hand while simultaneously penalizing them for behavior they want to encourage. Non-refundable deposits are great for X because they are effectively an interest-free loan to the company, and can be treated as "money in the bank" in a way that refundable deposits cannot. They also discourage the book-then-cancel behavior you mention. Given this, you would think X would want to make this type of deposit as attractive as possible, and on paper the reduced fares are enticing. However, by not allowing these passengers to take advantage of reduced rates on drink packages, etc., they are erasing that benefit (depending on the refundable price, of course) and effectively penalizing them after the fact. IMO this is a very good way to alienate first-time and long-term customers alike.

 

True, but the non refundable deposit is actually mostly refundable anyway.  Just a $100 charge per person to cancel.  Also I believe you can change it once without any penalty.  
 

IMO, Celebrity’s cost for a fully refundable deposit is in the potential revenues loss from close in cancellations.  (Forced to increase cabin prices based on a potentially false demand and then a large reduction to sell “open cabins” )

 

IMO, anyone that pays a significant penalty to avoid a potential $100 per person cancellation fee is making a questionable decision. (Probably without understanding all the different costs).
 

 

[Alsmez]

52 minutes ago, Iamcruzin said:

am one who is guilty of this. I will book a cruise far out and if our vacation time doesn't work out with our jobs or if a better deal on another cruise line becomes available I will cancel.

 

Though I have never canceled a cruise once booked, I always book a refundable fare because we never know what might come up at work, etc., until a few months before the date of travel. That said, if Celebrity wants to discourage this behavior, there has to be a better way than inflating prices so ridiculously. IMO, they would be better off making the non-refundable fare MORE attractive (by giving non-refundable pax a better deal on drinks/perks, offering additional OBC, etc.) - encourage the behavior you want instead of trying to trick customers into paying more!

[Alsmez]

6 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

Just a $100 charge per person to cancel.  

 

Actually no, according to their terms and conditions once the deposit is paid it can only be refunded (less the $100pp penalty) in the form of Future Cruise Credit, to be used within one year. So once you have given them the money, it really is use it or lose it, and Celebrity is therefore free to make use of it without worrying they will have to give it back.