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cobre5

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On 11/6/2019 at 7:08 PM, Bo1953 said:

p - the OP is from the UK and I do not think this part will translate over well...

 

bon voayge

 

I can confirm that many Limey's are familiar with the term "winner, winner, chicken dinner'. 

IMHO it's also been used appropriately in this thread. The OP does have my sympathy though. I'd be disappointed if my cruise was cut short, but I' also understand that if you travel for long enough you'll eventually have something like this happen at some point. 

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19 hours ago, cobre5 said:

It was a package I have worked with this TA many times

 

I'm sorry you've had issues on your cruise. I'm also thankful that you have posted about your experiences because others will learn from them. 

I'm also curious. Did you have travel insurance? If I learned that my cruise had been cut short due to an act of god and not booked everything through Celebrity, which we've only ever done once anyway as we usually do it all ourselves. I would have contacted my travel insurance company immediately to take advice from them about booking accommodation. My second question to you is, did you do this? If so, what did they say? 

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1 hour ago, villauk said:

 

 

I remember the total chaos after the delay due to Connie’s refurbishment. Has the OP mentioned that they were offered any accommodation by X for the 2 days? It would be interesting to find out if they were offered the same as you.

To be fair it was never chaotic at all. X sent over senior staff from both UK and Miami to resolve issues. If one turned up late in the day expecting to walk straight on board late on embarkation day then their day probably turned to chaos as they ended up accommodated out of town in what some described as very inferior but then they had to find over 1000 rooms in a day in Barcelona. We turned up early and got the 5 star hotel in the middle of town.

I am still using the US dollars we received in compensation and it amounted to thousands and we were only in Concierge

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6 hours ago, Beanb41 said:

what may make this thread clearer to all is would the OP provide the following information?

1. What was the total fare paid for the 14 day cruise?

2. How much refundable OBC was given to compensate for the loss of two days?

3. Have you made a claim against your travel insurance for the difference between the OBC and the actual costs incurred for shore based accommodation?

 

I ask this because I expect getting accommodation in Yokohama would have been extra expensive because of the Rugby World Cup and the Grand Prix. These increased costs are outside the scope of Celebrity and therefore not their issue. It is however a reason for having travel insurance.

 

We were on the Constellation two years ago which was delayed two days coming out of dry dock. We were scheduled to go to Monaco for the Grand Prix but the ports was missed due to the delay. We were in that instance well looked after, accommodation ashore provided at their cost for two nights, substantial cash refunds and we were flown up to Monaco for the GP at the cruise lines expense. We have subsequently had two cruises cancelled with limited OBC compensation. There appears to be no rule of thumb as referring to hat compensation is offered. I would suggest that the OP if not satisfied keeps pumping away at Celebrity until a better deal is reached, but do it away from forums like this. Coming here before resolution is reached is really pointless as we cant resolve your problem and the publicity can only make Celebrity dig their toes in deeper. If you have made your mind up not to cruise with them in the future they have nothing to lose by standing firm on their offer. Sometimes a conciliatory approach is better

 £2250 pp future cruise credit £679  pp onboard credit for 2 nights 276.99 US dollars pp. My main aim of posting was to make contact with others on this cruise who were also unhappy which has not happened. I have had some help much criticism and some rude comments which is the reason I rarely post on this site . The UK is very different from the USA for booking cruises and holidays as we have onerous TAs advertising daily offering discounts on the cruise line prices so it is the norm in the UK to book with a TA  and build a package . Up to a few years ago UK clients paid a lot more for cruises than those with a US address but things have now leveled out. I am not asking Celebrity  to pay for the extra hotel nights although some offer of help would have been appreciated but I do expect a credit for the 2 nights of one seventh of the £4500 paid. I assume Celebrity did not charge the people on the previous cruise for 2 extra nights which they had to spend at sea riding out the storm and I am joking with this comment before I receive further unwanted rude comments

As the purpose of my post was as stated to make contact with others on this cruise has failed then I cannot see any point in further response

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37 minutes ago, Mynki said:

 

I'm sorry you've had issues on your cruise. I'm also thankful that you have posted about your experiences because others will learn from them. 

I'm also curious. Did you have travel insurance? If I learned that my cruise had been cut short due to an act of god and not booked everything through Celebrity, which we've only ever done once anyway as we usually do it all ourselves. I would have contacted my travel insurance company immediately to take advice from them about booking accommodation. My second question to you is, did you do this? If so, what did they say? 

 I do have travel insurance but dealt with the additional accommodating costs with my TA but I do not understand why Celebrity pick up these costs and flight costs with those who booked direct as from comments the only difference in price should be the commission paid to the TA 

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On 11/7/2019 at 7:26 PM, Mark_T said:

Just to help clear up any confusion. Since the OP is based in the UK and on the assumption that he booked the cruise in the UK (and not via a US TA for example) then this is what Celeberity should have done:

 

  • Tell you about the change and give you a reasonable period of time to decide if you want to accept it or cancel with a full refund. You have the right to accept the change or to cancel the package and receive a full refund within 14 days. The travel company will also offer you alternative holidays if they’re able to do so.
  • Inform you that if you do not respond they will treat that as acceptance of the alteration or treat the booking as cancelled and return your money. If you do not respond within the time period given, they must contact you again and ask a second time for your decision. 

Weather as a cause is only a factor to the extent that if it had been something avoidable there would have been compensation involved as well, but if weather or something else unavoidable caused the significant change then the details above are correct.

 

 

As stated we were already in Japan so to cancel the cruise although possible was impractical due to the cost implications 

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7 minutes ago, cobre5 said:

 I do have travel insurance but dealt with the additional accommodating costs with my TA but I do not understand why Celebrity pick up these costs and flight costs with those who booked direct as from comments the only difference in price should be the commission paid to the TA 

Perhaps t o show that in the end it is better to book direct, they make more money from such bookings and can therefore offer more ie whatever you got from the travel agent + whatever the TA made is lost by Celebrity.

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15 hours ago, npcl said:

Unfortunately the OP has shared neither the letter nor the actual booking terms and values.

 

All we have is his 60% claim from which people are trying to calculate what would generate the difference.

 

Many times the cruise lines will generate a letter based upon US terms (their largest customer base), but when contacted by someone booking under non-US terms will modify the offer appropriately based upon the terms of the individual. So I would not be surprised if the OP received the same letter.

We did not receive a letter only an email on the 10th October 2 days before we were due to sail . We were in Osaka at the time and due to travel to Tokyo the next day by bullet train for an overnight stay before boarding the Millenium. We then had to book accommodation for an extra 2 nights

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40 minutes ago, cobre5 said:

 £2250 pp future cruise credit £679  pp onboard credit for 2 nights 276.99 US dollars pp. My main aim of posting was to make contact with others on this cruise who were also unhappy which has not happened. I have had some help much criticism and some rude comments which is the reason I rarely post on this site . The UK is very different from the USA for booking cruises and holidays as we have onerous TAs advertising daily offering discounts on the cruise line prices so it is the norm in the UK to book with a TA  and build a package . Up to a few years ago UK clients paid a lot more for cruises than those with a US address but things have now leveled out. I am not asking Celebrity  to pay for the extra hotel nights although some offer of help would have been appreciated but I do expect a credit for the 2 nights of one seventh of the £4500 paid. I assume Celebrity did not charge the people on the previous cruise for 2 extra nights which they had to spend at sea riding out the storm and I am joking with this comment before I receive further unwanted rude comments

As the purpose of my post was as stated to make contact with others on this cruise has failed then I cannot see any point in further response

Based on the above figures Celebrity have offered you as compensation  a 679 pound per person credit against a future cruise and 207 pound ( at todays exchange rate) in OBC or the equivalent of 896 pounds per person in compensation or 40% of your prepaid cruise fare for loss of two days in a 14 day cruise. And you say that's not fair..  Amazing

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How can you add future cruise credit to the 2 lost days credit. The future cruise credit is worthless if you do not wish to take another cruise with Celebrity. The only actual amount that matters is the credit for 2 days lost . I cannot understand your reasoning. If I booked a hotel and w days were cancelled then I would receive a full refund for the 2 days not  a partial refund

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1 hour ago, Beanb41 said:

Based on the above figures Celebrity have offered you as compensation  a 679 pound per person credit against a future cruise and 207 pound ( at todays exchange rate) in OBC or the equivalent of 896 pounds per person in compensation or 40% of your prepaid cruise fare for loss of two days in a 14 day cruise. And you say that's not fair..  Amazing

Agree, math is easy.  Divide 4500 by 7. I come up with 642...

Edited by PTC DAWG

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Another way to figure the amount due is: 4500 divided by 14 days = 321.43 per day times 2 lost days = 642.86. I think you indicated you got slightly more than this which is probably the port fees being refunded. I think the cruise line's math is correct.

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The onboard credit was 276.99 US dollars so 554 US dollars for 2 people so not the 642.86 GB pounds you state

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2 minutes ago, cobre5 said:

The onboard credit was 276.99 US dollars so 554 US dollars for 2 people so not the 642.86 GB pounds you state

Maybe the money conversion is throwing it off, none the less, it seems close to what you expected. Good luck moving forward. 

Edited by PTC DAWG

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2 hours ago, cobre5 said:

As stated we were already in Japan so to cancel the cruise although possible was impractical due to the cost implications 

 

The missing detail at that point was that you believed your arrangement with your TA for the cruise booked with Celebrity and the travel/hotel booked elsewhere constituted a 'Package'.

 

If that is indeed the case then it is a package you purchased from your TA not from Celebrity so it is on your TA to meet the requirements of the UK regulations, rather than Celebrity.

 

If in the end it is determined that what you purchased from your TA was actually a linked travel arrangement then my original post stands. Your TA is off the hook and all Celebrity had to do was offer you the option to cancel for a full refund, or continue under the terms they offered.

 

Doesn't stop you complaining that the terms they offered for continuing didn't make it clear that the fare basis for the calculation would be a lesser amount, but they would not be obliged to offer compensation or any payment for the extra hotel days.

 

In the end though it seems your TA is going to bat for you, and so hopefully they get a good outcome for you regardless of their actual liability.

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2 hours ago, Mark_T said:

 

The missing detail at that point was that you believed your arrangement with your TA for the cruise booked with Celebrity and the travel/hotel booked elsewhere constituted a 'Package'.

 

If that is indeed the case then it is a package you purchased from your TA not from Celebrity so it is on your TA to meet the requirements of the UK regulations, rather than Celebrity.

 

m  - this does make sense, at least to me. It appears that the OP wants X to re-imburse for the hotels as well, which they are under no obligation to do if it was not part of 'X's' package deal, as they do offer many times.

 

Thank you again and bon voyage

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15 hours ago, Beanb41 said:

what may make this thread clearer to all is would the OP provide the following information?

1. What was the total fare paid for the 14 day cruise?

2. How much refundable OBC was given to compensate for the loss of two days?

3. Have you made a claim against your travel insurance for the difference between the OBC and the actual costs incurred for shore based accommodation?

 

I ask this because I expect getting accommodation in Yokohama would have been extra expensive because of the Rugby World Cup and the Grand Prix. These increased costs are outside the scope of Celebrity and therefore not their issue. It is however a reason for having travel insurance.

 

We were on the Constellation two years ago which was delayed two days coming out of dry dock. We were scheduled to go to Monaco for the Grand Prix but the ports was missed due to the delay. We were in that instance well looked after, accommodation ashore provided at their cost for two nights, substantial cash refunds and we were flown up to Monaco for the GP at the cruise lines expense. We have subsequently had two cruises cancelled with limited OBC compensation. There appears to be no rule of thumb as referring to hat compensation is offered. I would suggest that the OP if not satisfied keeps pumping away at Celebrity until a better deal is reached, but do it away from forums like this. Coming here before resolution is reached is really pointless as we cant resolve your problem and the publicity can only make Celebrity dig their toes in deeper. If you have made your mind up not to cruise with them in the future they have nothing to lose by standing firm on their offer. Sometimes a conciliatory approach is better

Compensation due to a cruise delayed due to dry dock issues (something within the control of the cruise line) would be expected to be different then a cruise delayed two days due to a typhoon (outside of the control of the cruise line).

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18 hours ago, cobre5 said:

 £2250 pp future cruise credit £679  pp onboard credit for 2 nights 276.99 US dollars pp. My main aim of posting was to make contact with others on this cruise who were also unhappy which has not happened. I have had some help much criticism and some rude comments which is the reason I rarely post on this site . The UK is very different from the USA for booking cruises and holidays as we have onerous TAs advertising daily offering discounts on the cruise line prices so it is the norm in the UK to book with a TA  and build a package . Up to a few years ago UK clients paid a lot more for cruises than those with a US address but things have now leveled out. I am not asking Celebrity  to pay for the extra hotel nights although some offer of help would have been appreciated but I do expect a credit for the 2 nights of one seventh of the £4500 paid. I assume Celebrity did not charge the people on the previous cruise for 2 extra nights which they had to spend at sea riding out the storm and I am joking with this comment before I receive further unwanted rude comments

As the purpose of my post was as stated to make contact with others on this cruise has failed then I cannot see any point in further response

First question is was the amounts received consistent  if you received $ 276.99 per person, then in US dollars Celebrity would have considered your fare to be  1938.93  or depending upon exchange rates   somewhere in the neighborhood of 1514.pounds using current exchange rate of 1.28  Now in that case the FCC  for 1/2 (fare - refund in OBC) would be around 649 pounds = 1/2( 1514 X 6/7) per person.

 

With that in mind what was the FCC offer?

What was the exchange rates when you purchase the cruise.

 

Now if you paid 4500 or 2250 per person than the per person OBC should have been 321.42. However we do know that it would actually be smaller due to fares and taxes not being included in the refund calculation but for the time being lacking actual numbers (which your TA should be able to provide) lets us it to establish a boundary condition.  So if 321.42 is the max then in US dollars at today's exchange rate it would be $411.42.  On the other hand if someone did a conversion error and divided by the exchange rate instead of multiplying one would a value of $251, not too far off from the value you actually received.  Would be interesting to see what the actual exchange rates involved were since there was a fair amount of varience in day to day rates during this time.

 

For 14 day cruises in that area port fees and taxes run around $140-145 dollars per person or about $113 pounds.  So if they were included in the amount paid.  The the base calculation amount would have been 2250-113 or about 2137 and the expected OBC amount would be more like 305 pounds or  $390.4 per person.

 

Keep in mind that because you booked through a TA your payment was to the TA and not Celebrity.  The TA is the one that knows exactly what they paid Celebrity in terms of fare and fees. They should be able to give you that breakdown.  They would also be able to tell you if what your received as an OBC was in agreement with what they actually paid Celebrity.  While your TA indicated that they were going to go to bat for you, that is not the same as showing you a breakdown of actual monies paid to Celebrity.

 

So my questions to you are:

 

1. Were the OBC amounts and the FCC amounts consistent with OBC = X/7   and FCC =  .5 (X-OBC)  If they were not consistent then it would imply an internal issue with Celebrity's calculations.  If they were consistent then

2. What does your TA show as being the exact breakdown of the money you paid and what exactly was Celebrity paid?

3. Did the amount you paid your TA include and amount for insurance or other fees such as any local or national taxes.

 

You had mentioned earlier that you were not responsible for the deal between Celebrity and your TA, by the same token one could also say that Celebrity is not responsible for the deal between your TA and you.  They are only responsible for the money paid to them by your TA.  If the TA is willing to provide a complete breakdown and it does not agree with the amount you received then you have a good case to take up with Celebrity.  If on the other hand they are either not willing to show you the exact breakdown or if the fare actually paid to Celebrity does balance with what the TA actually paid them then probably not.  

 

This could be another example of potentially hidden costs of dealing through a TA, instead of purchasing direct. Which in most cases would not cause a problem but would impact amounts received from the cruise line in case of problems such as you encountered.

 

Note:  the above calculations are estimates using current exchange rates and taxes/fees from similar cruises in the same geographic areas.  As so one can expect some variance compared to the actual numbers.

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The OP has my full sympathy for his lost cruise days. We had something similar a few years back on Holland America and despite the offer of compensation made, we really would have just preferred to have had what we had paid for! From reading of OPs posts, I reckon this is the mindset he has. If so, no amount of compensation is going to make him feel totally happy.

My advice to him would be to dump it all into the hands of his TA to try and resolve and then try to move on. 

 

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6 hours ago, npcl said:

First question is was the amounts received consistent  if you received $ 276.99 per person, then in US dollars Celebrity would have considered your fare to be  1938.93  or depending upon exchange rates   somewhere in the neighborhood of 1514.pounds using current exchange rate of 1.28  Now in that case the FCC  for 1/2 (fare - refund in OBC) would be around 649 pounds = 1/2( 1514 X 6/7) per person.

 

With that in mind what was the FCC offer?

What was the exchange rates when you purchase the cruise.

 

Now if you paid 4500 or 2250 per person than the per person OBC should have been 321.42. However we do know that it would actually be smaller due to fares and taxes not being included in the refund calculation but for the time being lacking actual numbers (which your TA should be able to provide) lets us it to establish a boundary condition.  So if 321.42 is the max then in US dollars at today's exchange rate it would be $411.42.  On the other hand if someone did a conversion error and divided by the exchange rate instead of multiplying one would a value of $251, not too far off from the value you actually received.  Would be interesting to see what the actual exchange rates involved were since there was a fair amount of varience in day to day rates during this time.

 

For 14 day cruises in that area port fees and taxes run around $140-145 dollars per person or about $113 pounds.  So if they were included in the amount paid.  The the base calculation amount would have been 2250-113 or about 2137 and the expected OBC amount would be more like 305 pounds or  $390.4 per person.

 

Keep in mind that because you booked through a TA your payment was to the TA and not Celebrity.  The TA is the one that knows exactly what they paid Celebrity in terms of fare and fees. They should be able to give you that breakdown.  They would also be able to tell you if what your received as an OBC was in agreement with what they actually paid Celebrity.  While your TA indicated that they were going to go to bat for you, that is not the same as showing you a breakdown of actual monies paid to Celebrity.

 

So my questions to you are:

 

1. Were the OBC amounts and the FCC amounts consistent with OBC = X/7   and FCC =  .5 (X-OBC)  If they were not consistent then it would imply an internal issue with Celebrity's calculations.  If they were consistent then

2. What does your TA show as being the exact breakdown of the money you paid and what exactly was Celebrity paid?

3. Did the amount you paid your TA include and amount for insurance or other fees such as any local or national taxes.

 

You had mentioned earlier that you were not responsible for the deal between Celebrity and your TA, by the same token one could also say that Celebrity is not responsible for the deal between your TA and you.  They are only responsible for the money paid to them by your TA.  If the TA is willing to provide a complete breakdown and it does not agree with the amount you received then you have a good case to take up with Celebrity.  If on the other hand they are either not willing to show you the exact breakdown or if the fare actually paid to Celebrity does balance with what the TA actually paid them then probably not.  

 

This could be another example of potentially hidden costs of dealing through a TA, instead of purchasing direct. Which in most cases would not cause a problem but would impact amounts received from the cruise line in case of problems such as you encountered.

 

Note:  the above calculations are estimates using current exchange rates and taxes/fees from similar cruises in the same geographic areas.  As so one can expect some variance compared to the actual numbers.

Also in your calculations did the OP pay for a 'perks package' and in that case it needs to be subtracted from the cost in the first place, as we know that the cost of a cruise with NRD and no perks and Ref Deposit and perks are largely different.

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23 hours ago, cobre5 said:

The onboard credit was 276.99 US dollars so 554 US dollars for 2 people so not the 642.86 GB pounds you state

My calculation is based on the numbers you provided in your post #129. You said you had 679 GB on board credit and the total price was 4500 GB. My math is correct based on your post #129. I think there is a disconnect between what you are reporting here and what actually happened.

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8 hours ago, npcl said:

First question is was the amounts received consistent  if you received $ 276.99 per person, then in US dollars Celebrity would have considered your fare to be  1938.93  or depending upon exchange rates   somewhere in the neighborhood of 1514.pounds using current exchange rate of 1.28  Now in that case the FCC  for 1/2 (fare - refund in OBC) would be around 649 pounds = 1/2( 1514 X 6/7) per person.

 

With that in mind what was the FCC offer?

What was the exchange rates when you purchase the cruise.

 

Now if you paid 4500 or 2250 per person than the per person OBC should have been 321.42. However we do know that it would actually be smaller due to fares and taxes not being included in the refund calculation but for the time being lacking actual numbers (which your TA should be able to provide) lets us it to establish a boundary condition.  So if 321.42 is the max then in US dollars at today's exchange rate it would be $411.42.  On the other hand if someone did a conversion error and divided by the exchange rate instead of multiplying one would a value of $251, not too far off from the value you actually received.  Would be interesting to see what the actual exchange rates involved were since there was a fair amount of varience in day to day rates during this time.

 

For 14 day cruises in that area port fees and taxes run around $140-145 dollars per person or about $113 pounds.  So if they were included in the amount paid.  The the base calculation amount would have been 2250-113 or about 2137 and the expected OBC amount would be more like 305 pounds or  $390.4 per person.

 

Keep in mind that because you booked through a TA your payment was to the TA and not Celebrity.  The TA is the one that knows exactly what they paid Celebrity in terms of fare and fees. They should be able to give you that breakdown.  They would also be able to tell you if what your received as an OBC was in agreement with what they actually paid Celebrity.  While your TA indicated that they were going to go to bat for you, that is not the same as showing you a breakdown of actual monies paid to Celebrity.

 

So my questions to you are:

 

1. Were the OBC amounts and the FCC amounts consistent with OBC = X/7   and FCC =  .5 (X-OBC)  If they were not consistent then it would imply an internal issue with Celebrity's calculations.  If they were consistent then

2. What does your TA show as being the exact breakdown of the money you paid and what exactly was Celebrity paid?

3. Did the amount you paid your TA include and amount for insurance or other fees such as any local or national taxes.

 

You had mentioned earlier that you were not responsible for the deal between Celebrity and your TA, by the same token one could also say that Celebrity is not responsible for the deal between your TA and you.  They are only responsible for the money paid to them by your TA.  If the TA is willing to provide a complete breakdown and it does not agree with the amount you received then you have a good case to take up with Celebrity.  If on the other hand they are either not willing to show you the exact breakdown or if the fare actually paid to Celebrity does balance with what the TA actually paid them then probably not.  

 

This could be another example of potentially hidden costs of dealing through a TA, instead of purchasing direct. Which in most cases would not cause a problem but would impact amounts received from the cruise line in case of problems such as you encountered.

 

Note:  the above calculations are estimates using current exchange rates and taxes/fees from similar cruises in the same geographic areas.  As so one can expect some variance compared to the actual numbers.

n - There is only one (1) issue I have with the hypothesis, as presented, that is it does not matter what the TA paid to X, only the total amount X has said the fare is and what the passenger agreed to pay.

 

This total amount is, IMO, the basis for refund sans port taxes and fees of course, along with any other pro-rated daily purchases pre-paid.

 

Thank you for doing the conversion from dollars to sterling, yet just using the numbers is enough as I Am sure that is how X will calculate the OBC and etc..

 

Thank you again for the explanation and bon voyage

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2 hours ago, Bo1953 said:

n - There is only one (1) issue I have with the hypothesis, as presented, that is it does not matter what the TA paid to X, only the total amount X has said the fare is and what the passenger agreed to pay.

 

This total amount is, IMO, the basis for refund sans port taxes and fees of course, along with any other pro-rated daily purchases pre-paid.

 

Thank you for doing the conversion from dollars to sterling, yet just using the numbers is enough as I Am sure that is how X will calculate the OBC and etc..

 

Thank you again for the explanation and bon voyage

if the OP had purchased directly through Celebrity then I would agree with you. However the OP purchased through a third party who established the terms. As such the OP knows what he paid the third party for the fare, but not what the TA actually paid Celebrity for the fare.

 

I recall a similar discussion involving a US TA a few years ago on a similar topic involving a variance between FCC awarded and fare paid the TA.

 

 

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43 minutes ago, npcl said:

if the OP had purchased directly through Celebrity then I would agree with you. However the OP purchased through a third party who established the terms. As such the OP knows what he paid the third party for the fare, but not what the TA actually paid Celebrity for the fare.

 

I recall a similar discussion involving a US TA a few years ago on a similar topic involving a variance between FCC awarded and fare paid the TA.

 

 

Okay, I understand that aspect of it, not knowing what the TA paid, yet I would stick with the supposition that it still would be based on the 'invoiced' amount to the passenger per X.

 

Surely that would be the FCC basis, or I would think.

 

The OP purchased in the UK, so that would have no bearing or accounting for any differences in the long run, IMO.

 

Thank you again - bon voyage

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