Credits offered unacceptable

[Mark_T]

On 11/9/2019 at 3:19 AM, villauk said:

 

 

I remember the total chaos after the delay due to Connie’s refurbishment. Has the OP mentioned that they were offered any accommodation by X for the 2 days? It would be interesting to find out if they were offered the same as you.

 

Pretty sure he already said they didn't, and that would be correct, as the hotel/flights were not booked through Celebrity.

[npcl]

1 hour ago, Bo1953 said:

Okay, I understand that aspect of it, not knowing what the TA paid, yet I would stick with the supposition that it still would be based on the 'invoiced' amount to the passenger per X.

 

Surely that would be the FCC basis, or I would think.

 

The OP purchased in the UK, so that would have no bearing or accounting for any differences in the long run, IMO.

 

Thank you again - bon voyage

However did X ever give the OP an invoice or was the invoice from the TA.  I know when I book through a TA the cruise lines do not show me my fare, only a reference to the TA.

 

I just used the reference to the fact that there was another similar discussion involving a US TA to demonstrate that it is a purchasing through TA issue, not a UK issue.

[Beanb41]

Unfortunately there appears to be no precedent that Celebrity follows when making compensation. What is does reinforce however is the need to have good travel insurance when making ones initial booking or at least when the first payment on the holiday is made because we never know what the future holds. If the OP left home without travel insurance any sympathy I may have had disappears. If they have travel insurance then at the end of the day all they should be out of pocket is the insurance excess.  Sometimes s^2t happens

[npcl]

On 11/9/2019 at 3:26 AM, cobre5 said:

 I do have travel insurance but dealt with the additional accommodating costs with my TA but I do not understand why Celebrity pick up these costs and flight costs with those who booked direct as from comments the only difference in price should be the commission paid to the TA 

In case of a delay cruise lines will normally pick up hotel and flight expenses for those that booked their flights through the cruise line, not just the cruise directly with the cruise line.

[Beanb41]

8 minutes ago, npcl said:

However did X ever give the OP an invoice or was the invoice from the TA.  I know when I book through a TA the cruise lines do not show me my fare, only a reference to the TA.

 

I just used the reference to the fact that there was another similar discussion involving a US TA to demonstrate that it is a purchasing through TA issue, not a UK issue.

Irrespective of whether the OP received an invoice from the TA which is most likely Celebrity also issue a Client copy invoice which is obtainable from the TA. Many TA's don't like issuing this invoice as it spells out exactly what the customer has paid for and what they get in return. This invoice is issued as soon as the deposit is made. If airfares and accommodation are included as part of the total package as I understand is sometimes the case them it will be on this invoice hence one knows what one can expect in case of refunds. Most passengers I suspect make independent travel arrangements pre and post cruise.

I have found that the X invoice is most important when it comes to "fighting" X over perks and or compensation because it is this document that forms part of the contract not a TAs invoice which could contain a number of discounts or additions dependant upon the package the TA has put together.

Suggest the OP if they haven't got it they get a copy of the invoice to help progress their claim.

Any reimbursement is made on this document.

When our Constellation cruise (Dec 2020) was cancelled, even if we took the full refund the TA still got their commission in full.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

3 hours ago, npcl said:

if the OP had purchased directly through Celebrity then I would agree with you. However the OP purchased through a third party who established the terms. As such the OP knows what he paid the third party for the fare, but not what the TA actually paid Celebrity for the fare.

 

I recall a similar discussion involving a US TA a few years ago on a similar topic involving a variance between FCC awarded and fare paid the TA.

 

 

I’m guessing this is TAs who buy cabins and resell them that you pay the TA and the TA pays Celebrity?

 

Because I use a TA who does NOT buy cabins to resell - each booking is independent. And the card charge is Celebrity Cruises and not the travel agency. If the agency was paying Celebrity, there would be no way for them to make the charge say Celebrity - it would have to say the agency name.

 

Unless it is different in the UK?

Edited November 10, 2019 by WrittenOnYourHeart

[Mark_T]

12 minutes ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

I’m guessing this is TAs who buy cabins and resell them that you pay the TA and the TA pays Celebrity?

 

Because I use a TA who does NOT buy cabins to resell - each booking is independent. And the card charge is Celebrity Cruises and not the travel agency.

It is a bit more nuanced in the UK these days.

 

We have a lot of consumer protection laws based around 'Packaged' vacations, and lesser protections around different elements of a vacation like pre-cruise air travel and hotels that were not sold as a package.

 

So the TA need not be actively buying and reselling cabins, but they could have offered the OP a single price for their flights, hotels and cruise which would have been invoiced to them by the TA and that would constitute a package for the purposes of the consumer protection laws.

 

In that case the TA would make the necessary reservations and collect payment from the OP themselves.

 

They need not have pre-purchased the cruise cabin, just taken responsibility for making the reservation and paying Celebrity directly themselves.

 

Gemerally a TA is not going to do this and will take steps to keep the separate parts of the services separate as to do otherwise leaves them holding the liability when things go wrong in one part affecting another part.  However in this case the OP has stated that it was sold by his TA as a package, so if correct then the TA is indeed liable for the extra days in the hotel for example.

 

It is an interesting and odd case at the same time, so I hope we get to hear what the final outcome will be.

 

On the question of insurance, compared to the USA, travel insurance in the UK is very cheap so it is usually a given for travelers from the UK to have insurance cover.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Mark_T

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

5 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

It is a bit more nuanced in the UK these days.

 

We have a lot of consumer protection laws based around 'Packaged' vacations, and lesser protections around different elements of a vacation like pre-cruise air travel and hotels that were not sold as a package.

 

So the TA need not be actively buying and reselling cabins, but they could have offered the OP a single price for their flights, hotels and cruise which would have been invoiced to them by the TA and that would constitute a package for the purposes of the consumer protection laws.

 

In that case the TA would make the necessary reservations and collect payment from the OP themselves.

 

They need not have pre-purchased the cruise cabin, just taken responsibility for making the reservation and paying Celebrity directly themselves.

 

Gemerally a TA is not going to do this and will take steps to keep the separate parts of the services separate as to do otherwise leaves them holding the liability when things go wrong in one part affecting another part.  However in this case the OP has stated that it was sold by his TA as a package, so if correct then the TA is indeed liable for the extra days in the hotel for example.

 

It is an interesting and odd case at the same time, so I hope we get to hear what the final outcome will be.

 

On the question of insurance, compared to the USA, travel insurance in the UK is very cheap so it is usually a given for travelers from the UK to have insurance cover.

 

 

Interesting. 
 

I would probably either book myself or not cruise if I had to pay the TA and they paid Celebrity. Seems like it is asking for trouble (like this) to not be paying the line directly.

[Mark_T]

1 minute ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

Interesting. 
 

I would probably either book myself or not cruise if I had to pay the TA and they paid Celebrity. Seems like it is asking for trouble (like this) to not be paying the line directly.

 

Again, it is a little different in the UK 🙂

 

We have a high degree of protection for bookings and payments made through an intermediary, the TA.

 

So we would look for things like ABTA & ATOL protection to make sure the TA was properly secured and then have no worries about using them as an intermediary.

 

Even so a lot of people in the UK these days would go direct as we don't tend to get the benefits of things like OBC from the TA in the UK so there is very little reason to use them.

 

There are still exceptions, we used a TA for our Nile cruise a couple of years ago, but that was a situation where they were taking responsibilities for a number of cabins on a ship and reselling them along with arranging guides and other local services then selling it on as a package.

 

Where possible, we will usually book direct.

[happy cruzer]

My 2 cents.

 

The OP is unhappy about weather related changes and a small cabin which made for the worst cruise they ever had.

 

So the small cabin is relative and documented on many sites such that one should know what the cabin is like.

 

Weather related changes happen.  The cruise line does a "goodwill" offering.  So you take it or not.  It is subjective if it is good enough.

 

Expecting a refund is not realistic.  Especially if you have stated you don't want to sail with Celebrity.  Most lines never give refunds unless obligated too; usually future cruise credits.

 

And booking terms and expectations are different in the UK, so he looks at the problems from that perspective.

 

We recently missed two ports and got nothing but the port fees returned.  Would have like more but judged it was not worth the trouble.

 

Otherwise,  in my humble opinion, take what is offered and move on.....

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

57 minutes ago, happy cruzer said:

My 2 cents.

 

The OP is unhappy about weather related changes and a small cabin which made for the worst cruise they ever had.

 

So the small cabin is relative and documented on many sites such that one should know what the cabin is like.

 

Weather related changes happen.  The cruise line does a "goodwill" offering.  So you take it or not.  It is subjective if it is good enough.

 

Expecting a refund is not realistic.  Especially if you have stated you don't want to sail with Celebrity.  Most lines never give refunds unless obligated too; usually future cruise credits.

 

And booking terms and expectations are different in the UK, so he looks at the problems from that perspective.

 

We recently missed two ports and got nothing but the port fees returned.  Would have like more but judged it was not worth the trouble.

 

Otherwise,  in my humble opinion, take what is offered and move on.....

Agreed.

 

I know the OP complained that the Future credit was useless, but not cruising Celebrity again is their choice. It was offered as part of the compensation - if you choose not to use it, that is on you. (The generic “you” in this case. Meaning anyone. Lol.)

Edited November 10, 2019 by WrittenOnYourHeart

[villauk]

2 hours ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

And the card charge is Celebrity Cruises and not the travel agency

 

 

This is different in the U.K.: the card payment is made to the TA in their name, which is totally different to the US where the payment goes directly to the cruise line.

[villauk]

1 hour ago, Mark_T said:

as we don't tend to get the benefits of things like OBC from the TA in the UK so there is very little reason to use them.

 

 

Unsure how many cruises you have booked with a U.K. TA, but we have always received a discount on the cruise price from ours. However, over the last 10 years, we have mainly booked in the US because of the flexibility, honouring of price drops and extra amenities provided by our US TA. With the new push of the non-refundable deposits now on the other side of the pond, we may have to consider more closely which deals are actually suiting our needs the most.

[Mark_T]

4 minutes ago, villauk said:

Unsure how many cruises you have booked with a U.K. TA, but we have always received a discount on the cruise price from ours. However, over the last 10 years, we have mainly booked in the US because of the flexibility, honouring of price drops and extra amenities provided by our US TA.

 

We used a UK TA for many years but around 10 years ago the discounts started shrinking and we couldn't find anyone offering anything significant to replace them with so shifted to going direct.

 

We did try a large UK online TA again last year, but despite theur size and the claims of large savings their prices ended up the same as we were able to get direct.

 

Happy to keep it under review, but I've yet to find a UK TA that comes close to the deals you can get with a US TA.

[Mark_T]

1 hour ago, happy cruzer said:

Expecting a refund is not realistic.  Especially if you have stated you don't want to sail with Celebrity.  Most lines never give refunds unless obligated too; usually future cruise credits.

 

And booking terms and expectations are different in the UK, so he looks at the problems from that perspective.

 

... on that point at least, it is realistic for a UK booking, but the obligation was to offer a full refund for the entire cruise, and it doesn't seem the OP wanted that option as they were already in Japan at the time.

 

[Beanb41]

2 minutes ago, Mark_T said:

 

We used a UK TA for many years but around 10 years ago the discounts started shrinking and we couldn't find anyone offering anything significant to replace them with so shifted to going direct.

 

We did try a large UK online TA again last year, but despite theur size and the claims of large savings their prices ended up the same as we were able to get direct.

 

Happy to keep it under review, but I've yet to find a UK TA that comes close to the deals you can get with a US TA.

Downunder we are finding that TAs calling themselves so called "cruising experts". are generally anything but and for the small amount of savings one gets from them it is often not worth the saving if an issue develops and lately with cruise cancellations and rerouting it is better to deal direct with the cruise line. Our TAs get a 10% commission on the commissionable cruise fare which for a couple is around $NZ3000 on a longer cruise so the money they get is not substantial. We have currently managed to screw 40% of that off our TA but as I cruise more and more I am beginning to wonder is it worth dealing with someone who knows less than I do. When one is spending upward of $!0k on a holiday a $100 cruise discount is peanuts.for loss of control

[ShawninFL]

OK, I've just spent the last 30 minutes reading this entire thread.  Right off the bat I can tell you that I too was on this sailing and can only speak from my perspective as a US citizen booking through a US TA and nothing I say is meant to discount the OP's complaints or claims.    

 

We departed from the US on Wednesday October 9th and arrived in Tokyo on the 10th.  As our plane was taxiing to the gate some people around us started discussing what they were going to do with the impending storm still heading for the Tokyo area when the man directly behind us says he just received an email stating that the cruise he was supposed to be leaving on had been delayed 2 days due to the storm.  The three of us in my group all turn around and say "What ship?".  He says Celebrity Millennium.  We then tell him we're on that sailing too and thank him for mentioning it as we wouldn't have internet access until we reached the hotel.  

 

The OP is correct that hotels for the 2 day delay were hard to come by as the Rugby World Cup and Tokyo Grand Prix race were also going on that weekend.  When we arrived to our hotel we immediately asked to extend our two rooms for two days and were told they were completely booked.  The check in agent also told me to keep checking for room availability online as people would be cancelling who couldn't make it in to Tokyo because flights were already being cancelled.  Within 3 hours I had secured two rooms at our hotel for 2 more nights; however, at a much higher price.  Our first two nights cost $325.00 USD total and the two add on days cost $525.00 USD total. (But that's what travel insurance is for). There were others on our Cruise Connections thread also in Tokyo and ran into the same situation securing the extra hotel nights.  I believe everyone paid more for the extra nights than those prebooked and some also had to change hotels during the typhoon.

 

We lost two days on our cruise, going from 14 nights to 12 nights.  Celebrity eliminated a sea day, our stop at Kobe, and our first night in Yokohama (we were supposed to overnight in Yokohama on the original intinerary).  Additionally, they added the port of Shimizu which was not on our originally itinerary.  Celebrity's explanation was that Shimizu was "close" enough that those that were delayed in getting to Japan to make the ship in Yokohama could still make the ship in Shimizu the next day.  On the two days after Shimizu, our two originally scheduled ports' order was reversed.  The remainder of the cruise was exactly as scheduled.  For these changes we were given a fully refundable on board credit in an amount equivalent to 2 nights cruise fare paid.  Additionally, we were given a future cruise credit in the amount of 50% of the remaining 12 nights fare paid.  And I can say this is exactly what we received in our group.

 

We purchased our cruise and airfare through Celebrity.  All pre and post hotel stays as well as all of our tours were booked independently.  Before we even got on the ship my aunt who was traveling with us wondered how much we would get back, so I pulled out all our paperwork and began calculating.  She had her own cabin.  I took her invoice total and subtracted off the airfare and $143.62 in "Taxes, Fees, and Port Expenses" to come up with the actual cost of the cruise (we and my aunt both upgraded our cabins from ocean view to balcony and from 2 Perks to all 4 Perks a month before departure after a big price drop).  I divided this total by 14 to come up with per day cost and then multiplied that by 2 days.  The refundable on board credit we received was with in a couple dollars of this number.  I just assumed the difference had something to do with a portion of the port fees being refunded due to the changed itinerary.  I then subtracted the two day total from the full cabin cost to get the 12 day cost.  Then I divided it in half to come up with the future cruise credit(FCC).  We received our FCC certificates less than a week after disembarking the cruise and they were for the total I had calculated, but rounded to the nearest dollar.

 

Not only do we not feel we were short-changed, we feel like we hit the lottery.  Celebrity provided a refundable OBC in the amount equaling what we paid for two days of the cruise including our drink package, gratuities, and wifi.  They did not decrease any of the OBC that was part of our original cruise booking.  We did not spend any of this refundable OBC (we already had $550 in nonrefundable onboard credit) and it showed online on our credit card account three days after disembarkment.  Even though it was of no fault of Celebrity, this was owed to every passenger as Celebrity did not provide two days of what they sold us.  However, when it comes to the FCC, I think Celebrity was overly generous and I'm 100% satisfied with what they provided.

 

We had a wonderful trip and just rolled with what Mother Nature threw at us.  We got an extra day and a quarter in Tokyo to explore that we wouldn't have gotten without the typhoon.  We laughed that we came all the way from Florida to get hit by a "hurricane" in Tokyo.  Sometimes you're dealt lemons and you just have to figure out how to make lemonade (hint:  a little vodka helps).  I hope the OP's TA gets all their trip pricing sorted out so he or she can explain how the OBC and FCC were calculated.  But I can say we were compensated more than fairly and exactly how Celebrity said we would.

 

Happy Cruising.

Shawn in FL

 

 

 

 

 

 

[combine]

ShawninFL

 

At last a concise explanation of everything that happened and was offered  rather than supposition. It would be very unusual if Celebrity did not apply the same  basic calculations to every nationality that travelled, but as we know each country has their own set up re costs, taxes and commission . No doubt there is something amiss with original posters expectations and actual payments but I think he needs to speak to his Travel Agent.

Thanks for your post.

[hcat]

Glad shawninfl posted to give another perspective

Sounds like very good compensation  and that they had a nice cruise and were safe from a big storm!

[Bo1953]

8 hours ago, ShawninFL said:

OK, I've just spent the last 30 minutes reading this entire thread.  Right off the bat I can tell you that I too was on this sailing and can only speak from my perspective as a US citizen booking through a US TA and nothing I say is meant to discount the OP's complaints or claims.    

 

------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Not only do we not feel we were short-changed, we feel like we hit the lottery.  Celebrity provided a refundable OBC in the amount equaling what we paid for two days of the cruise including our drink package, gratuities, and wifi.  They did not decrease any of the OBC that was part of our original cruise booking.  We did not spend any of this refundable OBC (we already had $550 in nonrefundable onboard credit) and it showed online on our credit card account three days after disembarkment.  Even though it was of no fault of Celebrity, this was owed to every passenger as Celebrity did not provide two days of what they sold us.  However, when it comes to the FCC, I think Celebrity was overly generous and I'm 100% satisfied with what they provided.

 

We had a wonderful trip and just rolled with what Mother Nature threw at us.  We got an extra day and a quarter in Tokyo to explore that we wouldn't have gotten without the typhoon.  We laughed that we came all the way from Florida to get hit by a "hurricane" in Tokyo.  Sometimes you're dealt lemons and you just have to figure out how to make lemonade (hint:  a little vodka helps).  I hope the OP's TA gets all their trip pricing sorted out so he or she can explain how the OBC and FCC were calculated.  But I can say we were compensated more than fairly and exactly how Celebrity said we would.

 

Happy Cruising.

Shawn in FL

S - thank you for your perspective on this sailing and the experience with the issues.

 

Many of us did not think that X would leave its' passengers in a lurch and short-changed... even though I Am sure they have in the past, to some degree.

 

Glad to read that you and your group had a wonderful sailing regardless of the issues...

 

bon voyage

[Shadow9612]

@ShawninFL thank you for taking the time to clarify all those details.  Sounds like X was exceptionally kind. 

[Reel Love]

21 hours ago, ShawninFL said:

 

We had a wonderful trip and just rolled with what Mother Nature threw at us.  We got an extra day and a quarter in Tokyo to explore that we wouldn't have gotten without the typhoon.  We laughed that we came all the way from Florida to get hit by a "hurricane" in Tokyo.  Sometimes you're dealt lemons and you just have to figure out how to make lemonade (hint:  a little vodka helps).

 

 

Love your attitude!!!!!  😊

[Texed]

5 minutes ago, Reel Love said:

Love your attitude!!!!!  😊

 

Ditto!

[GottaKnowWhen]

On 11/6/2019 at 8:32 AM, cobre5 said:

Hi There Anyone who sailed on the delayed Ce;ebrity Millenium cruise due 12th October but sailed 14th October due to typhoon. Celebrity have offered a refund for the loss of 2 nights at 60% of the actual cruise fare paid citing that they only offer credits based on a Basic Cruise Fare which in my opinion is a way of not paying out what is due. They also offered a 50% future cruise credit again based on this unknown Basic Cruise Fare which in my case is 60% of the actual fare paid.

If anyone out there is also unhappy with these unfair and unacceptable offers please let me know.

I will be also be writing a review of this cruise and in particular the ship  and this was the worst cruise ever

Colin Brewer

Two observations. First, if I read you correctly, you are being offered a120% of your “actual  cruise fare” in compensation for the two lost days; half of that in the form of a refund and half in the form of a future credit. Sounds fair, especially since by your contract with them they owe you nothing. Second, I am not sure why you characterize the base fare as “unknown.” Did you receive an invoice showing a breakout of fare, port fees, perks, bev pkg credits, other costs, taxes, etc etc? If you didn’t receive such an invoice, bad on your travel agent and your harsh words should be aimed in that direction. 
I am a somewhat compulsive planner, and it would upset me terribly if I had been in Japan watching the heavy rains, unable to tour the city due to weather, waiting for the ship while it waited out the typhoon in safety off at sea. I can totally sympathize with your angst. But based on what you have outlined, I would hold Celebrity not guilty of maltreatment.

Stan

[Mark_T]

2 hours ago, GottaKnowWhen said:

Sounds fair, especially since by your contract with them they owe you nothing.

 

Do keep in mind that this isn't true for a UK booking.

 

There is still some complexity regarding the way that the OP booked his cruise, but 'nothing' was never an option.

 

... and while I personally would have been happy with the offer Celebrity made, I do understand that FCC is only of value if you intend to cruise again with the line, so it is somewhat self-serving as a component in offers like this...