Sir PMP Posted November 9, 2019 #26 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Hal should stop chasing its own tail... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted November 9, 2019 #27 Share Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) They don't shake up sales and revenue because things are going well. HAL has a problem. They have had it for a few years. Older, poorly maintained ships cannot compete with the Vikings of the world. I suspect they are bleeding some customers to higher end cruise lines that offer some people better value for their money. Not necessarily less expensive but more perceived value. Certainly anyone who pays full freight for their Neptune product will see greater value from these other cruise lines. Not to mention that a number of their old ships have been up for sale for ages. One has to wonder how that impacts decision making when it comes to drydocks, capital upgrades, etc. I defy anyone to clearly enunciate HAL's strategy at any point over the last few years other than perhaps build larger ships. That IMHO, is a problem in itself. No one really knows what HAL wants to be when it goes up and can no longer cash in on it's past glories. The next generation of cruisers do not care about HAL's past. They only care about the here and now. Nor are they loyal. Not to mention that a poor web site will send them quickly to shop at a competing cruise line. Edited November 9, 2019 by iancal 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Copper10-8 Posted November 9, 2019 #28 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rucrazy Posted November 9, 2019 #29 Share Posted November 9, 2019 47 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said: Maybe it's time to wind the clock!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyInVan Posted November 9, 2019 #30 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 hours ago, tfred said: Viking does have a good business model and I think that HAL would love to get some of that No chance of that happening with 2k passenger ships, and the lack of quality onboard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare 3rdGenCunarder Posted November 9, 2019 Author #31 Share Posted November 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Boatdrill said: The smaller ships are nice, and preferable to mega ships. However my first impression of the Statendam many years ago (my first small HAL ship) was that it felt very enclosed. I called it "the indoor ship". I was used to the light, airy feeling and openess of the Crystal ships. However the size and other negative attributes (IMHO) of the NS and Koningsdam will keep me from ever considering them. Hopefully HAL has a new small ship in the pipeline. I doubt they'll build another small ship. The next one being built is another Pinnacle class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare *Miss G* Posted November 9, 2019 #32 Share Posted November 9, 2019 I find the quality of product and services on HAL excellent for the price I pay. But, then again, my expectations are realistic. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir PMP Posted November 9, 2019 #33 Share Posted November 9, 2019 59 minutes ago, HappyInVan said: Viking does have a good business model and I think that HAL would love to get some of that The Ikea ships have no decent captains... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryndam Posted November 9, 2019 #34 Share Posted November 9, 2019 1 hour ago, *Miss G* said: I find the quality of product and services on HAL excellent for the price I pay. But, then again, my expectations are realistic. Your two sentence response is perfect. Very nicely said. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunelm Posted November 9, 2019 #35 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Thankfully, there is a ship today for any person's taste. I have little to complain about HAL. Those whose expectations have not been met can surely find another line, although be warned, no line is perfect, and neither are we. I admit that some complaints are genuine and should be addressed, but it seems to me that, on this site, misery loves company. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted November 9, 2019 #36 Share Posted November 9, 2019 (edited) That is the issue...excellent for the price I pay. More and more when I look at the 90 day price sheet I see HAL cruises discounted heavily. Even the newer ships. The problem I suspect, among others, is revenue per passenger per day. Us oldies don't spend as much as others. Jumping on the ship in an inside, outside, or even verandah balcony cabin at a discounted rate . And let's face it, when you start eliminating good entertainment I suspect that bar revenues also decrease. HAL needs people in the bar spending money past 10PM....perhaps even until 1 or 2. And not nursing the same drink all night. Edited November 9, 2019 by iancal 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyInVan Posted November 9, 2019 #37 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 hours ago, *Miss G* said: I find the quality of product and services on HAL excellent for the price I pay. But, then again, my expectations are realistic. I have no idea what price you paid. However, I'm willing to pay for a quality experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ski ww Posted November 9, 2019 #38 Share Posted November 9, 2019 Things change all the time. The old Roman Soldier said to the young recruit, it wasn't like this in the old Legion. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkacruiser Posted November 9, 2019 #39 Share Posted November 9, 2019 On 11/8/2019 at 11:17 AM, DaveOKC said: IMO. a shakeup is needed. Eliminate some of stupid recent ideas (messing with the Crows Nests for example). I agree. It has been reported by a current Amsterdam guest that the HD stated that the Amsterdam's Crow's Nest is not going to be changed. Maybe an example of a concept/idea whose time has come and gone just like the butchering of the aft Lido deck on the Veendam and Rotterdam? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkacruiser Posted November 9, 2019 #40 Share Posted November 9, 2019 On 11/8/2019 at 11:17 AM, DaveOKC said: IMO. a shakeup is needed. Eliminate some of stupid recent ideas (messing with the Crows Nests for example). I agree. It has been reported by a current Amsterdam guest that the HD stated that the Amsterdam's Crow's Nest is not going to be changed. Maybe an example of a concept/idea whose time has come and gone just like the butchering of the aft Lido deck on the Veendam and Rotterdam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rkacruiser Posted November 9, 2019 #41 Share Posted November 9, 2019 21 hours ago, TAD2005 said: It seems that the policies set by Seattle many times are completely different to actual practice onboard. One glaring example is the change of the SBP to $11 per drink max price. Some agents in Seattle are still telling guests that it is $9, a policy that changed last April. And some bartenders and waiters onboard are still stuck in the $9 world. Policy direction should come from the top, and everyone, even a Lido bar waiter should be totally trained and updated on the current policy. The Signature Beverage Card being included as a "freebie" in one's booking results in paying a fare sometimes significantly higher than one would pay without such a "perk". I find it of no use and is nothing more than a gimmick just because other cruise lines offer such a "wonderful free benefit". On 11/8/2019 at 11:33 AM, AncientWanderer said: And we're always complaining here about lack of consistency across the brand. They can fix that. No question that the lack of consistency could be fixed, but it hasn't been and this has been an on-going issue for how many years! My opinion: HAL increased the size of their fleet without first developing the needed management requirements to consistently ensure that one's cruise experience on Rotterdam V well compared with one's cruise experience on Rotterdam VI, just as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare *Miss G* Posted November 9, 2019 #42 Share Posted November 9, 2019 1 hour ago, iancal said: That is the issue...excellent for the price I pay. More and more when I look at the 90 day price sheet I see HAL cruises discounted heavily. Even the newer ships. Something you will never hear me complaining about. 😜 1 hour ago, HappyInVan said: I have no idea what price you paid. However, I'm willing to pay for a quality experience. Marriott has great rates on their premium products and I get a quality experience. HAL has great rates on their premium products and I get a quality experience. I am happy with my choices as they meet my expectations. I am not the audience you seek. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare 3rdGenCunarder Posted November 9, 2019 Author #43 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 hours ago, iancal said: That is the issue...excellent for the price I pay. More and more when I look at the 90 day price sheet I see HAL cruises discounted heavily. Even the newer ships. The problem I suspect, among others, is revenue per passenger per day. Us oldies don't spend as much as others. Jumping on the ship in an inside, outside, or even verandah balcony cabin at a discounted rate . And let's face it, when you start eliminating good entertainment I suspect that bar revenues also decrease. HAL needs people in the bar spending money past 10PM....perhaps even until 1 or 2. And not nursing the same drink all night. They didn't sell many drinks to me on the K last winter. The entertainment was not to my taste. Because it was "Oscar season," they had several nominated movies on the TV system. I watched a few by the pool, but mostly I watched in my room. Saw some good flicks, but that's hardly festive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientWanderer Posted November 9, 2019 #44 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 hours ago, iancal said: That is the issue...excellent for the price I pay. More and more when I look at the 90 day price sheet I see HAL cruises discounted heavily. Even the newer ships. The problem I suspect, among others, is revenue per passenger per day. Us oldies don't spend as much as others. Jumping on the ship in an inside, outside, or even verandah balcony cabin at a discounted rate . And let's face it, when you start eliminating good entertainment I suspect that bar revenues also decrease. HAL needs people in the bar spending money past 10PM....perhaps even until 1 or 2. And not nursing the same drink all night. I think they could increase revenue with their older guests if they focused more on specialty dining and the wine that would be ordered to accompany same. Neither PG nor Canaletto are really at potential. Those spaces could be generating better income. They are literally giving away many PG meals with bookings, and the decrease in meat quality shows it. But what do I know? I don't own any ships. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Copper10-8 Posted November 9, 2019 #45 Share Posted November 9, 2019 2 hours ago, rkacruiser said: I agree. It has been reported by a current Amsterdam guest that the HD stated that the Amsterdam's Crow's Nest is not going to be changed. Maybe an example of a concept/idea whose time has come and gone just like the butchering of the aft Lido deck on the Veendam and Rotterdam? Just a heads up: The "EXC Central in the Crow's Nest" concept was never planned for the remaining "S" and "R" class vessels; just for the Vistas and up 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAL4NOW Posted November 9, 2019 #46 Share Posted November 9, 2019 6 hours ago, iancal said: Not to mention that a number of their old ships have been up for sale for ages. How can this statement be verified? Is it based on the 2018 cruisebe article? https://www.cruisebe.com/update-cruise-ships-for-sale-holland-america-line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iancal Posted November 10, 2019 #47 Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) When you walk through the public areas, bars, and clubs on a ship at 10PM and find them virtually empty or devoid of activity it spells just one thing for a cruise line. Foregone revenue. On our last RCI cruise the ship was positively buzzing with activity. The venues were full and remained full. Same on many of our previous Carnival, Celebrity, Princess cruises, and especially NCL with their great entertainment. You cannot make that revenue loss up from bingo, internet, or half price dinners. It must be a challenge for HAL. Edited November 10, 2019 by iancal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare kazu Posted November 10, 2019 #48 Share Posted November 10, 2019 4 minutes ago, iancal said: When you walk through the public areas, bars, and clubs on a ship at 10PM and find them virtually empty or devoid of activity it spells just one thing for a cruise line. Foregone revenue. On our last RCI cruise the ship was positively buzzing with activity. The venues were full and remained full. You cannot make that revenue loss up from bingo revenue or half price dinners. Same on Princess and Celebrity. With all due respect, I have yet to be on a HAL cruise where the public areas are devoid of activity at 10 pm. In fact on our TA on the Rotterdam Stryker was going strong until well past 1 am due to the attendance. The Crow’s Nest was very busy on our last Prinsendam cruise at 10 pm - I know, I was there 😉 The list goes on. I guess we go on the cruises where people are adventurous and enjoying themselves but the theory that the carpets roll up at 10 pm has never been true on any of the cruises we have been on. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Copper10-8 Posted November 10, 2019 #49 Share Posted November 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, iancal said: When you walk through the public areas, bars, and clubs on a ship at 10PM and find them virtually empty or devoid of activity it spells just one thing for a cruise line. Foregone revenue. On our last RCI cruise the ship was positively buzzing with activity. The venues were full and remained full. Same on many of our previous Carnival, Celebrity, Princess cruises, and especially NCL with their great entertainment. You cannot make that revenue loss up from bingo, internet, or half price dinners. It must be a challenge for HAL. Here we go again with that old fairy tale! The late show starts at 10 PM in the main show lounge as we all know; the BB Kings are playing around the same time, as are the Rolling Stone band on the new ships, as do the Billboard Onboard musicians. The casino is busy at the same time, so the ships are not "virtually empty or devoid of activity." When is the last time you actually took a HAL cruise to personally verify all this? 12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyInVan Posted November 10, 2019 #50 Share Posted November 10, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, *Miss G* said: Marriott has great rates on their premium products and I get a quality experience. HAL has great rates on their premium products and I get a quality experience. I am happy with my choices as they meet my expectations. I am not the audience you seek. As I understand it, Marriott and Hilton has a lot of full fare business travelers. I think the point is that HAL needs passengers like me to maintain profitability and quality. There's a myth going around that HAL can make up for lower fares with higher onboard spending. That's not going to happen when the fares are $100 pp per day lower than they should be. Edited November 10, 2019 by HappyInVan last moment thought 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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