changes at the top

[HappyInVan]

11 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

My response was due to a poster suggesting  CCL divesting itself of its separate Operating Companies just as AT&T had to do.  My response was meant to educate others what my experience was with such a divestiture. 

 

I was the one suggesting that Carnival spin off its surplus brands. To allow those brands to find their own niche, as RAM has done. This situation is very different from AT&T's antitrust problem. I'm surprised that you bought it up.

[sail7seas]

Whew !!  some big time kind of 'topic drift.'  🙂  Where are the HAL 'powers' in all this  chatting?...and hope of making HAL's   on b oard experience the  cruise of our  dreams?      .............  once again!! ?

 

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by sail7seas

[HappyInVan]

On 11/25/2019 at 3:44 PM, Hlitner said:

Cheap Passengers?  I suppose you support the idea of paying more then necessary when you make any major purchase.  Do you pay "sticker price" when you purchase a car?  If not, why would you pay "sticker price" for a cruise.  If a cruise cabin is "heavily discounted"  (to use your words) one would assume that it is priced to sell because there are no buyers at a higher price.   One solution would be for HAL to deliver a better product which would encourage more folks to pay higher prices.

 

 

That's what I have been saying all along. HAL needs to go upmarket to improve its yield and profits.

 

Anyway, I would never book a veranda or suite on HAL. You're be sharing the same ship and food as the 'cheap' passengers.

 

[Hlitner]

5 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

That's what I have been saying all along. HAL needs to go upmarket to improve its yield and profits.

 

Anyway, I would never book a veranda or suite on HAL. You're be sharing the same ship and food as the 'cheap' passengers.

 

That debate opens another can of worms.  It has never made sense, to us, to book an expensive suite (i.e. Neptune, Pinnacle, etc) on a mass market line.  It is akin to having the most expensive home in a low cost neighborhood.  Even when in a Neptune suite you are on the same ship as somebody paying 1/4 the price (or less), eating the same food, getting the same entertainment, etc.  And we have never understood the HAL practice of not including an Open Bar in the Neptune Lounge.  The Suite amenities on HAL really lag in comparison to much of the competition.  Once we get into the $300+ per person/day level then there are much better cruise line options then HAL.  Consider that we recently took a Seabourn cruise for about $400 per person/day...which is an all-inclusive price on a luxury line.  On Seabourn there were no queues, food was somewhat better, the Caviar and Champagne (the real thing) flowed, etc.  And we are talking about a ship with fewer than 450 passengers

 

Hank

[ryndam]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

The Suite amenities on HAL really lag in comparison to much of the competition.  Once we get into the $300+ per person/day level then there are much better cruise line options then HAL.  Consider that we recently took a Seabourn cruise for about $400 per person/day...which is an all-inclusive price on a luxury line.  On Seabourn there were no queues, food was somewhat better, the Caviar and Champagne (the real thing) flowed, etc.  And we are talking about a ship with fewer than 450 passengers

 

Hank

 

Let me preface that we are 4-star mariners and have sailed HAL since three Nieuw Amsterdam's ago (yes, the one that was built in 1938 and finally scrapped in 1973, I believe.) And as one can tell from my CC screen name, I once was an exclusive and very loyal HAL guest.

 

We recently returned from a 2 week cruise on Crystal Symphony in a Penthouse Suite. The suite was larger than the HAL Neptune suites, the fare is all inclusive (all gratuities, all specialty restaurants, all liquors, all wines, all taxes & fees, complimentary shuttles in all ports, laundry, pressing, a butler and two additional cabin attendants, and more). The ship had 775 passengers and 560 crew. Our per diem on this cruise was just under $400/pp/day.

 

To paraphrase Hank above, when the cost delta between the lowest, minimum rate, inside HAL cabin and a balcony or Neptune suite on HAL was a reasonable difference, we were very loyal HAL guests. For quite a few years, the per diem costs of a Neptune suite, after adding in all the extras that are not included in the base HAL fare (liquors, wines, specialty restaurants, gratuities) are greater than the all-inclusive per diem fares on Crystal (and often Seabourn, and sometimes Regent and Silverseas).

 

I am not privy the the HAL balance sheet, nor can I speculate what the median per diem rate is across the HAL fleet. However, we no longer find sufficient value in the HAL product, specifically in the larger/more expensive suite categories. As Hank mentioned, once one is in the $400+/pp/day range, at least for us, there are more appropriate options than HAL.

 

HAL does offer some unusual and unique itineraries at reasonable per diem rates for many voyages. We overlooked the changes of product and inconsistency across the HAL fleet for many years until we finally experienced other cruise lines. Our last HAL sailing was a TA on the Nieuw Amsterdam about three years ago, and we have not been back since.

 

Rob

Edited November 27, 2019 by ryndam
typo

[HappyInVan]

I was just pricing the MSC Fantasia in the Mediterranean. I had canceled a HAL NS cruise inside cabin. I can get a Fantasia suite for twice the HAL inside price. The cabin is 2.5x bigger, has balcony, and comes with AUREC experience (priority boarding/dining and separate sundeck).

 

For the YC Deluxe Suite. I would pay 250% more, for a 2x bigger cabin with balcony on the 16^th deck. Comes with all the Yacht Club perks; butler, concierge, separate restaurant/pool/lounge etc.

 

 

[DaveOKC]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

I was just pricing the MSC Fantasia in the Mediterranean. I had canceled a HAL NS cruise inside cabin. I can get a Fantasia suite for twice the HAL inside price. The cabin is 2.5x bigger, has balcony, and comes with AUREC experience (priority boarding/dining and separate sundeck).

 

For the YC Deluxe Suite. I would pay 250% more, for a 2x bigger cabin with balcony on the 16^th deck. Comes with all the Yacht Club perks; butler, concierge, separate restaurant/pool/lounge etc.

 

 

Second hand information I know, but a good friend of mine who is a HAL 4 Star (mostly in Signature and Neptune suites) was just on MSC in a YC Deluxe Suite out of Spain and he said that the cruise was terrible and he would never go back on MSC, even in the YC.  Too many out of control kids, the food (especially the buffet) was poor, and too crowded.

[*Miss G*]

4 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

Second hand information I know, but a good friend of mine who is a HAL 4 Star (mostly in Signature and Neptune suites) was just on MSC in a YC Deluxe Suite out of Spain and he said that the cruise was terrible and he would never go back on MSC, even in the YC.  Too many out of control kids, the food (especially the buffet) was poor, and too crowded.

 

This is also what I have heard.  Reports were so bad that I took my finger off “Buy” for an MSC cruise this past October.

[HappyInVan]

7 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

Second hand information I know, but a good friend of mine who is a HAL 4 Star (mostly in Signature and Neptune suites) was just on MSC in a YC Deluxe Suite out of Spain and he said that the cruise was terrible and he would never go back on MSC, even in the YC.  Too many out of control kids, the food (especially the buffet) was poor, and too crowded.

 

Ohhh? There a lot of kids in the YC? Thought that they had a restaurant in YC?

 

Fortunately, I will be cruising when the kids are back in school.

[DaveOKC]

1 minute ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Ohhh? There a lot of kids in the YC? Thought that they had a restaurant in YC?

 

Fortunately, I will be cruising when the kids are back in school.

Yes - lots of kids running around YC.  They have family cabins I understand.  They cruised in mid-Sept!

 

[3rdGenCunarder]

55 minutes ago, DaveOKC said:

Yes - lots of kids running around YC.  They have family cabins I understand.  They cruised in mid-Sept!

 

 

That's the problem with The Haven on NCL. The description makes it sound so peaceful. But there are family cabins in that area, and I've heard that when there are family groups in a couple of cabins it gets very noisy and anyone not in the group has no hope of feeling like they're in a "haven."

 

[the2ofus]

I have only read about half of the comments following the original post on this thread so I may have missed comments similar to my observations which follow.  If so, please scroll on by.  I have preferred HAL cruises overall in my 26 years of taking cruises.  MS Statendam in 1993, her inaugural year, was my first experience.  I keep coming back to HAL for the gracious service, for the uncrowded spaces on board, for the consistently good quality of the food.  I have never been a party-hearty person so HAL suits me fine.  I have found that the excursions offered have generally been as described and were well organized and reasonably priced.  Some things have been eliminated and left me saddened, such as the on-board enrichment lectures; the activities offered by the cruise staff when there actually was a Cruise Director with active, engaged and engaging staff, and really good professional musicians in the Explorers Lounge.  (On recent HAL cruises it was clear the musicians had never played as an ensemble until they met onboard.)

 

I have read some posts seeming to declare that Viking is going to siphon off HAL customers.  I think Viking has some good features but they are not HAL.  The Viking Ocean experience is also very different than the Viking River product.

 

I sailed on a Viking Caribbean itinerary.  The ship was new and shiny, the staff was pleasant and accommodating.  The entertainment was not better, not even in the same league as HAL.  The food, always a subjective opinion, was varied, some average and some really tasty.  The sushi was excellent.  It was nice having wine and beer offered without having to order it.

 

The free excursions were no more than two hours long and offered a cursory view of the island.  Any other tours were more expensive than offered by HAL on those same islands.  Tours also are opened for purchase first to those in the most expensive cabins so some of the best and least expensive tours are sold out before the lower cost cabin occupants had a chance.

 

The Scandinavian decor of the ships is a very different product also.  Lots of white and light colors and light wood.  Lots of angles and lots of flat surfaces.  Not much in the way of draperies and soft surfaces.  This also carries through into the restaurants.  For people with hearing difficulties all those flat surfaces reflect and amplify sound to the point where dinner conversation can become impossible.

 

All told, I might consider a Viking Ocean cruise again if the itinerary and price were interesting.  Right now, I am considering a 2021 Baltic cruise with five other family members.  Viking already has their itineraries and prices available for travel agents to sell.  HAL has not yet published theirs.  I like the HAL 2020 Baltic cruise itineraries much better but who knows what 2021 will look like.

[Hlitner]

re: the comment made by the2ofus (previous post) I do suspect that some HAL cruisers have turned to Viking.  But it goes beyond that one line.  Our last 3 cruises have been on Princess (twice) and Seabourn.  On all three of those cruises we met HAL cruisers (some of whom we knew from HAL) who told us they had drastically reduced or eliminated HAL cruising.  And we know quite a few HAL cruisers who have turned to Oceania (several of them regularly post on CC).   We think that traditional HAL cruisers are among the most loyal (to HAL) folks we have met in the cruise world.  But when HAL loses these folks to other lines it is a darn shame.  We have a love-hate with HAL.  There are some nights (especially on longer cruises) when the entertainment options are so bad that we swear we are finished with HAL.  But we do keep returning, but much less then in the past.  And we have booked no future HAL cruises after our upcoming Westy cruise and will likely not book any more HAL until we see what the line is going to do with their entertainment.  On our recent two Princess cruises we spent a lot of evening hours at "Crooners" which is their piano bar.  Princess still hires piano bar players and they have some of the best.  On most nights it is standing room only at Crooners.   We used to love the piano bars on HAL, but they have disappeared from many of the ships along with Production Shows.

 

Hank

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

Ohhh? There a lot of kids in the YC? Thought that they had a restaurant in YC?

 

Fortunately, I will be cruising when the kids are back in school.

 

I sail on MSC Meraviglia on January 5th in YC.  There is a dedicated restaurant in YC as well as a buffet of some type at the YC Pool.  Why a YC guest would dine at the standard buffet seems odd to me.  (I do intend to visit the venue, but I don't plan to dine there.)  If there are children, OK by me.  I intend to do a report when I return.  And, I anticipate it will be positive.  

[Hlitner]

22 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

I sail on MSC Meraviglia on January 5th in YC.  There is a dedicated restaurant in YC as well as a buffet of some type at the YC Pool.  Why a YC guest would dine at the standard buffet seems odd to me.  (I do intend to visit the venue, but I don't plan to dine there.)  If there are children, OK by me.  I intend to do a report when I return.  And, I anticipate it will be positive.  

We spent 21 days in the Divina YC and actually did have lunch (a few times) at the buffet?  Why?  A completely different experience and much broader selection.  The buffet had several kinds of pizza and we thought their White Pizza was fantastic.  One day I walked through and saw Italian Sausage (it was great) along with side of peppers and onions and could not resist.  If I had gone to Le Muse for lunch it would have been fine, but they would not have had sausage and peppers (or white pizza).

 

The nice thing about the YC is that you have lots of options.  We certainly took advantage of the specific YC options but also did not ignore the rest of the ship.  As to children, they are in the YC as well as everywhere else on the ship.  Since you are cruising after the holidays you can hope for a minimum number of kids.  We are back in the YC next week :).

 

Hank

[ryndam]

We’ve moved on to Crystal & Silverseas. Yes, a different price point. But the current HAL product and its 2000+ pax vessels no longer suit our preferences. We currently find more value with other cruise lines. Our final HAL voyage was in 2015 and we have not returned. Great memories however on many past voyages going back to Nieuw Amsterdam II and Rotterdam V. Times change. Tastes change. We are glad that there are choices.

 

Rob

[HappyInVan]

7 hours ago, DaveOKC said:

Yes - lots of kids running around YC.  They have family cabins I understand.  They cruised in mid-Sept!

 

 

Going for October 10th departure on Seaview

 

 

[sail7seas]

On 11/12/2019 at 11:42 AM, RuthC said:

I know for a fact, because I succeeded, that all one has to do is contact Oceania and they will stop sending unwanted brochures. It was a phone call that did it for me, but there is also a place on the website. No need to fill up the recycling bin with those heavy brochures. 

 

 

I'll not waste  a whiff of  effort on  their behalf. I have no intention of listening  to their recorded, hold on message.

 

 

 

 

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, sail7seas said:

 

I'll not waste  a whiff of  effort on  their behalf. I have no intention of listening  to their recorded, hold on message.

 

 

 

So, what is the point of complaining about it being "such an awful waste" if you have no intention of doing anything about it? Doesn't that make you complicit in the waste?

 

[BirdandBaby]

Just adding my 2 cents as someone who has never sailed HAL, was considering it for a recent cruise, but didn't pull the trigger. My reasons echo the concerns many have mentioned on this thread. My husband and I seem to be in HAL's 'natural' demographic - late 60's, interested in good food and wine, interested in a variety of on-board activities, and looking for a reasonable (not cheap) cruise experience. We want a step above Norwegian (don't need the go carts and climbing wall, thanks) but don't want to spend the money for luxury. We enjoyed our one Windstar cruise a lot, but actually prefer a mid- or large-sized ship for greater activities available and dining choice.

 

So, when we were looking into an Eastern Caribbean getaway, we considered HAL, Princess, Celebrity, and MSC. We ended up choosing Regal Princess, although I was initially trying to talk my husband into the Nieuw Amsterdam or Staatendam. Why not HAL? Three reasons: (1) husband kept hearing it was nursing-home-at-sea - he prefers a livelier mix, (2) husband afraid not enough to do on board since this is an itinerary we have done before, and (3) the website. The last kind of clinched it. The website was a nightmare to navigate, uninformative, and the choices of cabin on two separate dates we checked was terrible. We couldn't even tell if the other preferable cabins were sold out, being held out, or what the h*ll was going on. On other lines' websites you can look at deck plans, see sold vs. unsold, etc. It ended up not being worth the hassle.

 

I also agree that HAL needs to up their advertising. We get brochures from NCL, Oceania, Azamara all the time. We have never gotten anything from HAL or seen any print or tv advertising. If my husband had seen some glossy add to counter the negative impressions he had from who knows where, it might have made a difference.

Edited December 2, 2019 by BirdandBaby
corrections and additions

[cruisemom42]

5 hours ago, BirdandBaby said:

Just adding my 2 cents as someone who has never sailed HAL, was considering it for a recent cruise, but didn't pull the trigger. My reasons echo the concerns many have mentioned on this thread.

 

I have nothing to add to your comment, just wanted to say I like your moniker and enjoyed a lovely meal at the Eagle and Child (er, Bird and Baby -- or as some say, the Fowl and Fetus) this summer.

 

[BirdandBaby]

6 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I have nothing to add to your comment, just wanted to say I like your moniker and enjoyed a lovely meal at the Eagle and Child (er, Bird and Baby -- or as some say, the Fowl and Fetus) this summer.

 

🙂 I hadn't heard "Fowl and Fetus"! I'd love to go back to Oxford - wonderful memories from past visits. So much history, so little time...

[sail7seas]

On 11/11/2019 at 10:26 AM, taxmantoo said:

 

I've never seen a copy but I would wager that they advertise in "Oprah Magazine" 😉 Just saying ... And I'd wager even more that this will increase with the new "North American Sales Manager" person being appointed.

Oprah seems to be too busy pushing WW.   (weight watchers) to bother  about   HAL, IMO    Then  again, that is not too surprising,

 

[Tampa Girl]

On 11/9/2019 at 4:38 PM, rkacruiser said:

 

I agree.  It has been reported by a current Amsterdam guest that the HD stated that the Amsterdam's Crow's Nest is not going to be changed.  Maybe an example of a concept/idea whose time has come and gone just like the butchering of the aft Lido deck on the Veendam and Rotterdam?

 

 

I think that it is because the S and R class ships do not have the room to "redesign" as in the Vista and Signature classes.  At least that is what we were told in 2018 on the Amsterdam Grand Asia.  We recently got off the Zaandam, and I was told by the future cruise consultant that the library and Crows Nest were staying.

[iancal]

We are not loyal to any one cruise line.   But here is my spouses typical response when we have it narrowed down to three or four ships.  In our late 60's.

 

Princess...why not, let's do it. 

Celebrity...why not let's do it  and is it a Solstice class ship

 RCI,...no problem as long as it is not the big ones

 HAL....what ship, are you sure, what is wrong with the Princess, Celebrity, RCI ships on our short list.

 

Hopefully there will be a sea change at HAL post covid.

 

I am surprised that some of the HAL loyalists have not tried to blame the disposal of the last four ships on Mr. Ashford even though it did not occur on his shift.  

Edited July 31, 2020 by iancal