Interesting Development Re Service Dogs

[Jnsplace1]

I'm sure adding Maritime international laws are adding a layer of complexity to this subject.

 

I've worked with and been around service animals most of my life.  The training is very apparent.  

Either way, for me, if there's a threat of harm on my or my loved ones person, I would treat it no differently if it was another human being.   You do not threaten physical harm, that's common sense right there.

[SargassoPirate]

It cranks me up when it is apparent that a little yappy dog being pushed around in a baby carriage and fed from the table in the MDR or buffet.  The owner is essentially thumbing their nose at the rules and extending a middle finger to the rest of us.

 

However, I can complain to shipboard management and would encourage anyone who does want to tolerate it to do the same.  Unless we all make our displeasure known, nothing will change.

[Ombud]

1 hour ago, SargassoPirate said:

It cranks me up when it is apparent that a little yappy dog being pushed around in a baby carriage

+1 anywhere

[JimmyVWine]

1 hour ago, SargassoPirate said:

However, I can complain to shipboard management and would encourage anyone who does want to tolerate it to do the same.

Why would the people who want to tolerate it complain to management?  

[azbirdmom]

9 hours ago, lolabarola said:

Yesterday, on board Coral the dog and owner were introduced on stage during the port of call talk for Cabo San Lucas, relevance for this being that he is a Mexican hairless dog breed Xolo? I think. He was introduced as a ‘service or support’ dog and received muted applause ; he is a beautiful chap and behaved perfectly. His owner said a few words about the breed and she too seemed a charming person. Maybe the way forward is for the ship to be licenced to carry a specific quota of service or support animals....

 

 

 

The lady who is the subject of this post is on the Coral Princess and has a dog named Max.  Wonder if it is the same woman you saw yesterday?

[MixerDave]

Many posts reference the ADA rules.  That is the AMERICAN disability act.  Do cruise ships have to comply?

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, MixerDave said:

Many posts reference the ADA rules.  That is the AMERICAN disability act.  Do cruise ships have to comply?

Yes, SCOTUS has ruled that since the foreign flag cruise ships provide public accommodation in the US (while in US ports), they must meet certain aspects of the ADA, in this case allowing service animals onboard.  However, SCOTUS, in Spector v. NCL, ruled that the cruise ship's "internal policies and procedures" do not have to meet ADA requirements, so the cruise ship is free to set whatever policies regarding service animals onboard that they want to, whether stricter or more lax than the ADA, providing they do not discriminate against the owner of the service animal.

[Reader0108598]

Just wonder what the cruiselines will do when scruffy bites someone! I am all for well trained service dogs! However these pets are somthing else!  Well guess we will see how Delta does after that poor gentleman had his face attacked by a dog! TWICE!

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Reader0108598

[Globehoppers]

Anyone with a "comfort" dog should not be cruising.  People do this solely to take Rover with them.  If you have serious medical problem, a cruise ship is the last place you need to be as special medical assistance is not available.  

[Jnsplace1]

sidenote....I cannot even imagine what the staff has to deal with in the clean up of pets......I mean, not everyone has the best manners when staying at a "hotel" or "cruise" or such resort.

[K.T.B.]

On 11/12/2019 at 8:16 AM, whitecap said:

My 2 cents, flame if you must:

When did common sense become a thing of the past.  An animal trained to detect a seizure, seeing eye dog and alike are providing a "SERVICE" to the owner.  A service dog allows many individuals the freedom to do things and go places that otherwise they may not be able to do.

An "emotional" animal provides no service, is there for the comfort of the owner and nothing else.  This animal should not be allowed aboard a ship, plane, train or any other public transportation.  They are not trained and are many times not well behaved.  If a person is not able to travel, shop or go to a public restaurant, without their animal, they probably shouldn't be traveling without being accompanied by a "trained human".  

Having experienced a number of cruises where people brought their "emotional pet" onboard, seeing them walk the buffet line petting the dog over top the food and touching the utensils, I find it a failure of the cruise line to allow this.  If it is so important to the cruise line to not upset these individuals then assign a crew member to the individual to get their food, drinks or other needs, clean up after the animal etc.  Otherwise, go by the ADA standard:  Certified/Documented Service Animals ONLY! 

 

My 2¢ now:

 

A true service dog should be certified and proof provided when asked.  The owner of the animal most likely paid for its training, so the certification should be free of charge.  True service animals have been trained to perform a specific role for their owner (i.e. detecting low blood sugar).  These are working animals.

 

An emotional support animal has no such training. That's not to say that they don't provide some sort of support, but the owner of the animal doesn't need it around all the time.  IF they are true emotional support animals, then they need to be trained as such and have a certification like a service animal.  Period.  No certification, the animal isn't getting on a ship, plane, etc.

 

Now then, my grandson has a service dog and she goes with him every where.  (He's a long distance trucker.)  She's absolutely incredible.  I'm still shocked that she was literally (and I DO mean literally) less than an hour away from being put down before she was adopted.  Anyway, she has saved his life numerous times.  When he sleeps, he occasionally has nightmares and it can severely affect his breathing.  (PTSD from military service.)  Mollie is there to wake him up to make sure he doesn't die.  It's what she was trained to do.

 

There is a huge difference between service and support.  A service animal is trained for its duty and their owner needs them to live; a support animal is not trained and the owner wants them around.  Emotional support animals should not be allowed on board, unless there's a legitimate medical reason for it.

 

[Reader0108598]

3 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

My 2¢ now:

 

A true service dog should be certified and proof provided when asked.  The owner of the animal most likely paid for its training, so the certification should be free of charge.  True service animals have been trained to perform a specific role for their owner (i.e. detecting low blood sugar).  These are working animals.

 

An emotional support animal has no such training. That's not to say that they don't provide some sort of support, but the owner of the animal doesn't need it around all the time.  IF they are true emotional support animals, then they need to be trained as such and have a certification like a service animal.  Period.  No certification, the animal isn't getting on a ship, plane, etc.

 

Now then, my grandson has a service dog and she goes with him every where.  (He's a long distance trucker.)  She's absolutely incredible.  I'm still shocked that she was literally (and I DO mean literally) less than an hour away from being put down before she was adopted.  Anyway, she has saved his life numerous times.  When he sleeps, he occasionally has nightmares and it can severely affect his breathing.  (PTSD from military service.)  Mollie is there to wake him up to make sure he doesn't die.  It's what she was trained to do.

 

There is a huge difference between service and support.  A service animal is trained for its duty and their owner needs them to live; a support animal is not trained and the owner wants them around.  Emotional support animals should not be allowed on board, unless there's a legitimate medical reason for it.

 

Correct a service dog does not bark,poop,or attack anyone! A service dog is more than welcome to travel with me any time ! I like  well behaved animals

🙂

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Reader0108598

[rugerdog]

2 hours ago, Reader0108598 said:

Just wonder what the cruiselines will do when scruffy bites someone! I am all for well trained service dogs! However these pets are somthing else!  Well guess we will see how Delta does after that poor gentleman had his face attacked by a dog! TWICE!

 

I'm currently dealing with this as we speak.  We'll see how the cruise line handles it.

[Ombud]

2 hours ago, Jnsplace1 said:

sidenote....I cannot even imagine what the staff has to deal with in the clean up of pets......I mean, not everyone has the best manners when staying at a "hotel" or "cruise" or such resort.

But if a hotel states it's pet friendly then the traveler knows upon booking that animals will be there. I have also assumed that the only 4 legged animals on a cruise are service animals. 

[CineGraphic]

2 hours ago, Jnsplace1 said:

I cannot even imagine what the staff has to deal with in the clean up of pets

 

I think it's ridiculous to push a dog in a baby stroller, but this may be why some do so when bringing their pups into the dining room, so as to not soil the floor. Nobody needs to see that while eating.

[Reader0108598]

20 minutes ago, rugerdog said:

 

I'm currently dealing with this as we speak.  We'll see how the cruise line handles it.

Good luck!

[Reader0108598]

If 

12 minutes ago, Ombud said:

But if a hotel states it's pet friendly then the traveler knows upon booking that animals will be there. I have also assumed that the only 4 legged animals on a cruise are service animals. 

If you book a hotel that allows dogs ..they still cannot bite you and get off scott free!  I guess unless you sign a waiver that says so!

Edited November 14, 2019 by Reader0108598

[Cruiser_1977]

@rugerdog I've been thinking of what happened to you during this thread!

[Ombud]

Of course not, Reader0108598! And the hotel + owner (no, he's my dog I'm not his mom) also bears responsibility.  But if booking in a pet friendly hotel, I know there will be dogs. When booking a cruise, I ass-u-me there won't be pets onboard

Edited November 14, 2019 by Ombud

[Reader0108598]

10 minutes ago, Ombud said:

Of course not, Reader0108598! And the hotel + owner (no, he's my dog I'm not his mom) also bears responsibility.  But if booking in a pet friendly hotel, I know there will be dogs. When booking a cruise, I ass-u-me there won't be pets onboard

I totally agree with you and I love dogs and cats . It has just gotten so out of control ! listening to this poor little pup whine /whimper for three hours nearly drove me mad on a recent flight! 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Reader0108598

[JimmyVWine]

3 hours ago, Globehoppers said:

Anyone with a "comfort" dog should not be cruising.  People do this solely to take Rover with them.

And just how frequently do you think this occurs?  Seriously!  Do you really think that people are bringing Rover on a cruise where there is no where to run around, play and do its business?  It's not like the ports of call are going to allow Rover to leave the ship.  Rover can't come with you when you go zip-lining in Roatan, or go to the Academia in Florence, or climb up the Acropolis.  Are there that many people who bring Rover on board and them leave him confined to quarters while they go out and enjoy their excursions?  Or do you think that there are that many people who go on cruises with Rover who never leave the ship themselves and  hang out all day in their cabins with Rover?  People who think that "pet dogs" on cruise ships are a real problem are seeing ghosts.  Probably one in a hundred thousand guests, if that.

Edited November 14, 2019 by JimmyVWine

[Ldyandrea]

On 11/12/2019 at 10:19 AM, nattie said:

If a person has anxiety being in the crowds, may be cruising is not for them. 

I LOVE my doggo, but would never think of bringing him to the buffet or anywhere he can cause real inconvenience to people with allergies or dog fears. I am severely allergic to cats for example and would not be able to be in next door cabin to passengers with a cat.

Honestly, every pet is an emotional support animal for their owners. Should we all be able to bring the menagerie onboard?

 

Keep in mind, when we're talking about legit support/service animals, we're talking about a person who has issues that are literally debilitating to the point where they cannot function normally.  *I* get anxiety in crowds, even on cruise ships, but it's not so awful that I cannot function. For example, there are vets who suffer from severe PTSD who use service animals that might also be considered "emotional support animals" on some level, even though they are legit trained service animals.

 

Additionally, there are indeed also those animals (as mentioned above) who are trained to detect blood sugar fluctuations or seizures so that their person can either take care of themselves, or let another human know they need help.  A friend of mine, who is also a dog trainer, has a couple of her own dogs that can alert her to serious blood sugar issues, even when she's asleep. For seizure victims, while the dog's alert cannot prevent the seizure, it does alert the person generally in enough time to allow them to lie down safely so that they don't fall and hurt themselves when the seizure starts.

 

I totally get it on the allergies issue, since I developed pet allergies later in life myself.

 

The sad part is that so many people who are attached to their animals abuse the system by claiming they *need* their animals with them all the time. I see it most frequently in restaurants, and they're generally little dogs in purses. I don't care so much if they're seated at outside tables, and the animal is on the floor, but otherwise, the self-entitlement of the pet owners is just annoying.

[Reader0108598]

58 minutes ago, Ldyandrea said:

 

Keep in mind, when we're talking about legit support/service animals, we're talking about a person who has issues that are literally debilitating to the point where they cannot function normally.  *I* get anxiety in crowds, even on cruise ships, but it's not so awful that I cannot function. For example, there are vets who suffer from severe PTSD who use service animals that might also be considered "emotional support animals" on some level, even though they are legit trained service animals.

 

Additionally, there are indeed also those animals (as mentioned above) who are trained to detect blood sugar fluctuations or seizures so that their person can either take care of themselves, or let another human know they need help.  A friend of mine, who is also a dog trainer, has a couple of her own dogs that can alert her to serious blood sugar issues, even when she's asleep. For seizure victims, while the dog's alert cannot prevent the seizure, it does alert the person generally in enough time to allow them to lie down safely so that they don't fall and hurt themselves when the seizure starts.

 

I totally get it on the allergies issue, since I developed pet allergies later in life myself.

 

The sad part is that so many people who are attached to their animals abuse the system by claiming they *need* their animals with them all the time. I see it most frequently in restaurants, and they're generally little dogs in purses. I don't care so much if they're seated at outside tables, and the animal is on the floor, but otherwise, the self-entitlement of the pet owners is just annoying.

 

 

Edited November 14, 2019 by Reader0108598

[Potstech]

2 hours ago, Ombud said:

Of course not, Reader0108598! And the hotel + owner (no, he's my dog I'm not his mom) also bears responsibility.  But if booking in a pet friendly hotel, I know there will be dogs. When booking a cruise, I ass-u-me there won't be pets onboard

You keep ass-u-ming things not in evidence.  Nowhere does it say cruise lines are pet free. So far you have seen that your assumptions are false.

[Ombud]

27 minutes ago, Potstech said:

You keep ass-u-ming things not in evidence.  Nowhere does it say cruise lines are pet free. So far you have seen that your assumptions are false.

Yes, I'm ass-u-ming it.