Air/Medical evac

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, gpgal said:

 I don't think we're at $100k. (Maybe $60-$70K.) Should we ask for limits to get raised? In your opinion.

Only you can answer that. 

[ldubs]

29 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Oops! Sorry.

My intention was to suggest "more than $100k.

 

No worries.  My two middle names should be omission and misstatement.  😀 

[donaldsc]

On 11/22/2019 at 8:40 AM, Hlitner said:

The "bummer" about all this is that travelers are often required to pay all the medical bills upfront and later seek reimbursement. This can be a major problem for folks who do not have credit cards with high credit limits (of even worse...for those who do not have a major credit card).  In fact, in Mexico where we live part of the year it is pretty normal for some hospitals to demand a credit card as you enter the hospital (before you are even checked-in) as proof of your ability to pay.   In our situation in Japan (which was in a major teaching hospital with more than 500 beds) the cruise line arranged for our visit so admission was quite easy and they even provided us with an English speaking translator (who stayed with us during our entire 8 hour visit).  But the last step at discharge was that we had to go through the Accounting department where we were required to pay the entire bill before we left the hospital.  For us this was not a problem but I have often wondered what happens to folks who do not have the ability to make that payment.  

 

I should add that it was the same on the ship where we had several thousand dollars in Medical bills.  The entire balance was put on our onboard cruise account which had to be settled to a major credit card prior to our medical disembarkation.   Again, it was not a problem for us and we were actually grateful for all the help and support we received from the onboard medical center.  But this could cause some grief for those with low credit limits.

 

We were fortunate that our insurance company quickly (about 2 weeks after we filed the very detailed claim) reimbursed our medical expenses.  Further reimbursement from our Chase credit card (which had $10,000 of coverage as a benefit) was much more difficult and took several months of back and forth.  In fact, when I finally (months later) received a big check from Chase it was an occasion to open a nice bottle of Champagne (and we are not talking about the cheap faux Champagne served at the art auctions).

 

I detailed much of this "adventure" on CC under the cruise insurance blog at the time we finally resolved all the issues.  

 

Hank

 

As a practical matter, what would the ship do if you couldn't immediately cover your medical bills - keep you captive on the ship until you paid your bill.  That certainly would not be in their best interests.  I am not suggesting that anyone try to stiff the ship but sometimes it might take a bit of time for you to come up with the money to pay the bill.

 

DON

[Charles4515]

4 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Exceeding six figures in CC limits and liquid assets.  That is kind of sobering.  Seems a little over much to me.  I think 6  figures would be sufficient.     

I don’t think you need that much unless you are a foreign tourist visiting the USA.....😒  Did you read about the Canadian couple who didn’t buy travel insurance for an Alaska cruise because it began and ended in Vancouver? Some kind of medical evacuation coverage is a must though. The couple stranded in Mexico, their medical costs were not actually that high compared to what a cost for a stay in the US. They didn’t need six figures. 
 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Charles4515

[sparks1093]

19 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Actually what you said was "....if travelers needed to wait to have the assets that you deem necessary .....  it would cripple the travel industry."

"Needing" (i.e., required)  to do something is different than "choosing" (e.g., per recommendation). 

However, I understand your intent as do you understand my intent about "international" (vs "intercontinental").

So, Happy Thanksgiving! 🦃

Yes, I should have said "if travelers felt that they needed to wait...". Happy Thanksgiving to you and yours and may all of your travels be safe.

[sparks1093]

2 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

As a practical matter, what would the ship do if you couldn't immediately cover your medical bills - keep you captive on the ship until you paid your bill.  That certainly would not be in their best interests.  I am not suggesting that anyone try to stiff the ship but sometimes it might take a bit of time for you to come up with the money to pay the bill.

 

DON

It's my understanding that the ship would have the passengers sign a promissory note and if they have travel insurance probably a form giving the insurance company the authority to remit payment directly to the cruise line.

[SRF]

The other thing is, if you have basically good credit, you could call your credit card company, explain the situation and possibly get a temporary credit limit increase.

[pacruise804]

On 11/24/2019 at 12:01 PM, Charles4515 said:

 

I think that is correct. But you have to consider though that your card limit is the funds in your bank account that are not on hold. If you use a debit card for your cruise the cruise line puts a hold on some of your funds every day and so all your whole bank balance won't be available. Also if there is fraud the fraudster can empty out your account. So while Visa gives you zero liability protection it may take some time to be made whole. 

 

Doesn't the same hold true for credit cards - that the available credit is balance less holds?  Over the years there has been fraud, but not to the extent of wiping out the account (usually only a couple dollars, but last time around one hundred).  Once reported, funds were available for our use very quickly.  Couldn't a fraudster also compromise your entire credit limit?

 

2 hours ago, SRF said:

The other thing is, if you have basically good credit, you could call your credit card company, explain the situation and possibly get a temporary credit limit increase.

 

I never thought about it before, but since I'm only a few key strokes/mouse clicks away from reopening lines of credit at the financial institution I would think we could get temporary credit based on our history if necessary.

[ldubs]

8 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

I don’t think you need that much unless you are a foreign tourist visiting the USA.....😒  Did you read about the Canadian couple who didn’t buy travel insurance for an Alaska cruise because it began and ended in Vancouver? Some kind of medical evacuation coverage is a must though. The couple stranded in Mexico, their medical costs were not actually that high compared to what a cost for a stay in the US. They didn’t need six figures. 
 

 

 

When it comes to medivac I think I probably have a gap in coverage.   A good thing about this thread for me is it is a reminder to review our coverage.  

[Charles4515]

55 minutes ago, pacruise804 said:

 

Doesn't the same hold true for credit cards - that the available credit is balance less holds?  Over the years there has been fraud, but not to the extent of wiping out the account (usually only a couple dollars, but last time around one hundred).  Once reported, funds were available for our use very quickly.  Couldn't a fraudster also compromise your entire credit limit?

 

 

Some people don't keep large balances so the hold resulted in their checking account being overdrawn and then overdraft charges multiplying wiping out their balance. And no recouping because it was not fraud, it was the cruise line holds. My CC hold usually falls off after a few days. I noticed ion an August cruise that Oceania was putting a $40 hold on every day but each previous hold would fall off after a couple of days. Some banks are much slower taking off the hold. With a credit card the holds  it is something to keep in mind. If I have a 20,000 credit limit and just charged a $3000 cruise then I only have $17,000 of that credit. Also I think if I made a $17,000 charge with a credit card the CC company is probably going to ask me to verify the charge since I don't have a history of charges that high. Last time I was in Europe even though I gave a travel notice two cards still declined a charge and I had to call and verify. One was my Amex Platnium whch makes a bige deal about not having travel notices but they still would not let me make the charge untill I sent an email back. I don't know about debit cards as I only use them for cash at ATMs. PersonaIy think I would rather the fraud take place on my CC than my bank account. Also I don't keep my checking account balance very  high because I keep my liquid and emergency funds in accounts that earn interest. This is a complicated subject, everyones finances are different and I would not tell someone else what to do. I would not tell people not to cruise if they don't have $100,000 in back up or credit card limits!!!! I would advise people to have travel insurance, medical and evacuation coverage and read the policy. Don't just buy the cheapest policy. I also suspect that a foriegn hospital is not going to hold you hostage if you show you have travel insurance.. However I would rather not test that in practice.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Charles4515

[sanger727]

On 11/18/2019 at 5:17 PM, ducklite said:

Actually in every single state in the US it is mandatory to have at least a minimum amount of auto insurance, and the insurers report it to the State when coverage is dropped.  In some states this will land you in jail.

 

Likewise when you have a mortgage, if you are dropped the mortgage company is alerted and they will obtain insurance for you at high rates and add it to what you owe them.  

 

Maybe this varies state to state, but in my state, the insurer's don't report when you drop insurance. Why would they? There are many insurance options out there. Switching companies isn't uncommon. There's no way for them to know if you simply canceled your policy to switch or are letting it lapse because you don't want to pay it. In Ohio, at least, you need proof of insurance when you buy a car (at least if you have a loan, not sure if you don't). But after there's only 3 ways the state will know if you have insurance. 1. If you are in an accident, 2. if you are cited in a traffic stop, or 3. the state sends out random notices requesting insurance verification. If you get caught without insurance in any of these, you'll  have your driver's license suspended. To get your license back you have to get special insurance that is at a highly elevated price where they DO report to the state that the insurance is kept current. But many many people drive without insurance every day. Course, many many people also drive without a driver's license every day.  At least in Ohio, none of these are jailable offenses.

 

 

On 11/20/2019 at 9:50 AM, JennyB1977 said:

Sorry for my delay in responding. I wanted to have the best answers to provide a complete response. I spoke to both my VP of HR and multiple people at our insurance provider:

The insurance I am covered under:

1) Covers emergencies outside of the USA while on leisure or business travel (Emergency Health Services - "threat to loss of life or limb")

2) Covers the transport whether ambulance or air back to an In Network Provider in the USA when I am stable

3) I would need to pay Out Of Pocket and submit for reimbursement

      a) there is an actual form for this "foreign international claim for reimbursement"

4) I would end up only paying Out Of Netowrk copay ($100)

 

So, to one of the points of this thread. Yes, I (and people with similar insurance) would/do need access to credit and/or cash in the moment. However, when all is said and done I, personally, would only be out the $100 copay.

 

 

I think that you have exceptional insurance. I think that I have very good insurance. But if I had a heart attack at home and went to all in network doctors it would cost me a whole lot more than $100. My insurance does provide some international coverage but it's at out of network rates so would still cost us thousands in copays. Course, it can costs a thousand in copays at home too (our out of pocket max for in network is $1,500).

Edited November 28, 2019 by sanger727

[ldubs]

6 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

Maybe this varies state to state, but in my state, the insurer's don't report when you drop insurance. 

 

 

 

 

 

The requirements for personal auto insurers to report to DMVs about policy status does in fact vary by state.   Here in California they are required to report.   

[ducklite]

On 11/28/2019 at 10:06 AM, sanger727 said:

 

Maybe this varies state to state, but in my state, the insurer's don't report when you drop insurance. Why would they? There are many insurance options out there. Switching companies isn't uncommon. There's no way for them to know if you simply canceled your policy to switch or are letting it lapse because you don't want to pay it. In Ohio, at least, you need proof of insurance when you buy a car (at least if you have a loan, not sure if you don't). But after there's only 3 ways the state will know if you have insurance. 1. If you are in an accident, 2. if you are cited in a traffic stop, or 3. the state sends out random notices requesting insurance verification. If you get caught without insurance in any of these, you'll  have your driver's license suspended. To get your license back you have to get special insurance that is at a highly elevated price where they DO report to the state that the insurance is kept current. But many many people drive without insurance every day. Course, many many people also drive without a driver's license every day.  At least in Ohio, none of these are jailable offenses.

 

It should be a jailable offense.  People who don't pay for insurance could kill someone and leave that person's family destitute because of their lack of responsibility. Start locking them up and fining them far more than the cost of an annual policy and you'll see deadbeats changing their tune very quickly.

[sparks1093]

13 minutes ago, ducklite said:

It should be a jailable offense.  People who don't pay for insurance could kill someone and leave that person's family destitute because of their lack of responsibility. Start locking them up and fining them far more than the cost of an annual policy and you'll see deadbeats changing their tune very quickly.

People who pay for insurance could kill someone and leave that person's family destitute. Insurance isn't a panacea and they all have limits on how much they will pay out and it isn't sufficient to make up for the loss of a loved one.

[ilikeanswers]

1 hour ago, ducklite said:

It should be a jailable offense.  People who don't pay for insurance could kill someone and leave that person's family destitute because of their lack of responsibility. Start locking them up and fining them far more than the cost of an annual policy and you'll see deadbeats changing their tune very quickly.

 

I think it is a little harsh to assume they are all deadbeats. There are plenty of people who live pay check to pay check and a lot of places have terrible public transport so without a car you can't get to work. Putting up the fines means those who can afford it will just pay their way out while those already on the edge will be pushed further into destitution. 

[SRF]

3 hours ago, ducklite said:

It should be a jailable offense.  People who don't pay for insurance could kill someone and leave that person's family destitute because of their lack of responsibility. Start locking them up and fining them far more than the cost of an annual policy and you'll see deadbeats changing their tune very quickly.

 

Considering the low required insurance in many states, that is going to happy anyway.

 

"The minimum legal Maryland car insurance coverage is: Bodily Injury Liability Coverage: $30,000 minimum per person / $60,000 minimum per accident. Property Damage Liability Coverage: $15,000 minimum. Uninsured Motorist Bodily Injury Coverage: $30,000 minimum per person / $60,000 minimum per accident."

 

How far does $30,000 get you in medical care these days?  And a whipping $15,000 to repair/replace your car.  How many cars can be purchased for $15,000?

 

 

[sanger727]

3 hours ago, ducklite said:

It should be a jailable offense.  People who don't pay for insurance could kill someone and leave that person's family destitute because of their lack of responsibility. Start locking them up and fining them far more than the cost of an annual policy and you'll see deadbeats changing their tune very quickly.

or you could purchase the ‘under-insured’ ‘un-insured’ driver rider on your insurance and be covered

 

yes, people who drive should have insurance. But the reality is there are many many unlicensed and uninsured drivers on the roadway. I would rather pay a bit more to be covered in the event of being hit by an uninsured driver 

Edited December 9, 2019 by sanger727

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I think it is a little harsh to assume they are all deadbeats. There are plenty of people who live pay check to pay check and a lot of places have terrible public transport so without a car you can't get to work. Putting up the fines means those who can afford it will just pay their way out while those already on the edge will be pushed further into destitution. 

Of course, they're not all "deadbeats." But, a significant number of uninsured motorists are exactly that OR their spending priorities are decided without any consideration of the cost to other people. 

In California, we are required to pay for "uninsured motorist coverage." AND that is in addition to all sorts of governmental taxes (local through federal) that, because they are "graduated," often place a monstrous (and lopsided) drain on the resources of hardworking middle/upper middle income earners.

Maybe if we moved to higher "flat" sales taxes (instead of income tax - at all government levels), where everyone really pays a "fair share" of whatever they can afford to buy, those of us saddled with having to pick up the slack created by deadbeats OR the less fortunate would be less angry.

Let the "flaming" begin!

Edited December 9, 2019 by Flatbush Flyer

[ducklite]

36 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

or you could purchase the ‘under-insured’ ‘un-insured’ driver rider on your insurance and be covered

 

yes, people who drive should have insurance. But the reality is there are many many unlicensed and uninsured drivers on the roadway. I would rather pay a bit more to be covered in the event of being hit by an uninsured driver 

I have those coverages.  However they don't allow for penalties for deadbeats.  Again, people who drive without insurance should face serious consequences.  IN NJ it's a mandatory one year license suspension for a first offense.  After that it's jail.  As it should be.

[pacruise804]

1 hour ago, SRF said:

 

 

How far does $30,000 get you in medical care these days?  And a whipping $15,000 to repair/replace your car.  How many cars can be purchased for $15,000?

 

 

 

Lots of cars can be purchased for under $15,000, but not necessarily a "forever" car or one the person wants to drive.  If someone is driving a 7 year old vehicle with 100K miles, it probably wouldn't sell for more than $15K (barring specialty vehicles).  Many people wouldn't replace their vehicle with what they are already driving though, they would opt for something newer 😉 

 

 

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Of course, they're not all "deadbeats." But, a significant number of uninsured motorists are exactly that OR their spending priorities are decided without any consideration of the cost to other people. 

In California, we are required to pay for "uninsured motorist coverage." AND that is in addition to all sorts of governmental taxes (local through federal) that, because they are "graduated," often place a monstrous (and lopsided) drain on the resources of hardworking middle/upper middle income earners.

Maybe if we moved to higher "flat" sales taxes (instead of income tax - at all government levels), where everyone really pays a "fair share" of whatever they can afford to buy, those of us saddled with having to pick up the slack created by deadbeats OR the less fortunate would be less angry.

Let the "flaming" begin!

 

Uninsured motorists coverage is not mandatory in California.  It must be offered by your insurer, but it can be declined.  

 

I suppose you are talking about the progressive income tax when you complain about your horrible tax burden.  A lot of folks would die to have your "lopsided" problem.  Suck it up. Pay. Be grateful.  

 

 

[ldubs]

4 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I think it is a little harsh to assume they are all deadbeats. There are plenty of people who live pay check to pay check and a lot of places have terrible public transport so without a car you can't get to work. Putting up the fines means those who can afford it will just pay their way out while those already on the edge will be pushed further into destitution. 

 

Driving a car carries responsibilities, including financial ones.  The minimum financial responsibility is defined by states.   People driving without minimum insurance limits are being irresponsible.  Deadbeat is probably not the best description, but it could apply to someone who evades their financial accountability.    

[ducklite]

7 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I think it is a little harsh to assume they are all deadbeats. There are plenty of people who live pay check to pay check and a lot of places have terrible public transport so without a car you can't get to work. Putting up the fines means those who can afford it will just pay their way out while those already on the edge will be pushed further into destitution. 

 

Part of owning a car is the financial responsibility to carry insurance.  They are deadbeats if they don't pay for and carry insurance and still drive.  I live in a place with no mass transit.  People walk and ride bikes if they can't afford to own a car.  For several years as a young adult who couldn't afford insurance (and therefore didn't own a car) I rode my bike or walked the four mile r/t to and from work.  It's called personal responsibility.

[ilikeanswers]

7 minutes ago, ducklite said:

 

Part of owning a car is the financial responsibility to carry insurance.  They are deadbeats if they don't pay for and carry insurance and still drive.  I live in a place with no mass transit.  People walk and ride bikes if they can't afford to own a car.  For several years as a young adult who couldn't afford insurance (and therefore didn't own a car) I rode my bike or walked the four mile r/t to and from work.  It's called personal responsibility.

 

4 miles is not that much distance and doable by bike but what if you lived 12 miles? 30 miles? 60 miles? In a lot of rural areas not having a car means you can't go to the shops let alone make a regular transit to work. When finances get tough they are more likely to drop car registrations and insurances in favour of food on the table and petrol in the tank. A car may seem like a luxury to people who live in the city but for some people it is a lifeline. 

 

[ducklite]

23 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

4 miles is not that much distance and doable by bike but what if you lived 12 miles? 30 miles? 60 miles? In a lot of rural areas not having a car means you can't go to the shops let alone make a regular transit to work. When finances get tough they are more likely to drop car registrations and insurances in favour of food on the table and petrol in the tank. A car may seem like a luxury to people who live in the city but for some people it is a lifeline. 

 

 

I didn't live in the city.  I lived in a semi-rural area and took a job that paid less than had I lived in the city because I didn't have a car and couldn't afford one.  

 

Again, if they drive without insurance they are breaking the law and need to be punished. This is not a parking ticket, it's the ability to compensate a person if the driver injures them or their property.  Those not responsible enough to carry insurance aren't responsible enough to operate a vehicle.  

Edited December 9, 2019 by ducklite