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2 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

Is this allowed in legal terms? It is actually faking or I see it wrong?

Please clarify your question.  Are you asking about terms and conditions which are the legal rules or what.  And what about faking?  Extremely confused with your two questions.

 

As far as up to, we see that in many advertisements and it is extremely common as it makes people expect to get the full value stated while it can be no change up to the value.

 

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14 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Please clarify your question.  Are you asking about terms and conditions which are the legal rules or what.  And what about faking?  Extremely confused with your two questions.

 

As far as up to, we see that in many advertisements and it is extremely common as it makes people expect to get the full value stated while it can be no change up to the value.

 

I understood that the price was increased and then the sale applied, so that actually there is no real sale. I am asking if this is allowed. It is like faking a sale. I hope my question is clearer now.

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8 minutes ago, travelberlin said:

I understood that the price was increased and then the sale applied, so that actually there is no real sale. I am asking if this is allowed. It is like faking a sale. I hope my question is clearer now.

Thanks for the clarification.  Don't know of any law against it.  An old saying let the buyer be aware or caveat emptor.  If you aren't following a price for an item no way to know if this is what they did or not.  Is it faking a sale or deceptive, I'll let others chime in on that.  A price can go up or down as demand increases or decreases.  Azamara is not the only company using this approach..

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13 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Thanks for the clarification.  Don't know of any law against it.  An old saying let the buyer be aware or caveat emptor.  If you aren't following a price for an item no way to know if this is what they did or not.  Is it faking a sale or deceptive, I'll let others chime in on that.  A price can go up or down as demand increases or decreases.  Azamara is not the only company using this approach..

There is legislation that applies in the UK and also I think in the EU - in the UK the law in the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations, simply says that if products are on sale or special offer, retailers have to show the original price and must have been selling at that price for "a meaningful period of time".  I thought that applied to all retailers but now I am wondering if cruise lines are somehow exempt as I have never seen the original price shown (and would that effectively be the same as rack rates in hotels, the maximum price they sell at but no one pays).

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For a 2021 cruise that we have been following for a while, the drop in price for a verandah is about $3,000. CAD.

 

The price now isn't exactly a "sale", but it is a reasonable price for a 14 day cruise.

 

On our 2020 cruise the price hasn't budged. The fact that all the suites already seem to be reserved suggests that we shouldn't expect any downward movement.

Edited by nordski

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My issue with all this is that, even with an excellent travel agent who can handle most of it, I simple don’t have the time, energy and desire to constantly have to play this ridiculous pricing game. It’s just absurd that to get the best deal you basically need to book early and then log in every other day or so to be able to immediately act on price / perks changes. Who wants to spend their time on that? 

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9 hours ago, uktog said:

Absolutely not!  Our Autumn cruise is usually when we make our big future commitments, we left today with no bookings.  There were some 2021 cruise you could have a double discount (20%) but the list it applied to was a closely guarded secret it seemed.  I also noted the future cruise desks were very quiet.  Maybe the nature of the cruise (many late bookers heavily discounted probably freaked at the real prices) exacerbated the situation.  But for me I have to believe the staff know what they are doing and applying the right codes, if I do not have the confidence I am not booking.

We got the double discount. As far as I was aware it applied to all onboard bookings. I didn’t even ask if it applied to the cruise I wanted to book and he didn’t need to check if it applied to the cruise we wanted to book. 
Given that we get a chance to rebook if the price goes down it seemed a no brainier to book onboard and get 12% discount plus the $300 OBC.

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It certainly did not apply to all bookings for 2021 on Journey or if it did the inexperienced staff didn’t understand that. However on this occasion the flyer clearly said selected not all - the trouble was I couldn’t get a hold of the selected list. Michelle would always send it to our room

 

I’m not sure even at 20% it would be a no brainer given how expensive the itinerary we were looking at was compared to a competitor even after 20%

Edited by uktog

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6 minutes ago, uktog said:

It certainly did not apply to all bookings for 2021 on Journey or if it did the inexperienced staff didn’t understand that. However on this occasion the flyer clearly said selected not all the trouble was I couldn’t get a hold of the selected list. 

I’m not sure even at 20% it would be a no brainer given how expensive the itinerary we were looking at was compared to a competitor 

I used to love the flyer they used to have with all the deals on it. It was easy to pick out good prices on some cruises (including reduced single supplement offers). I booked quite a few that way on the ship with the Future Cruise sales staff and it was a great tool for them to use too. I haven't seen this for ages and as was said earlier, it's all smoke and mirrors now with a deal to beat a deal that's not really a deal. Such a pity 😕

 

Phil 

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Yes as we fed back onboard if the staff manning sales are outgoing knowledgeable and build relationships on a more personal level they will not only sell to the “low hanging fruit” who were going to book anyway but will also capture folks like you and us who with a seed sown a pricing shared but no sales sell to immediately convert will at a calmer weaker moment one day (probably after lunchtime 🙂 ) decide hey let’s go for it. 
But the price has to be right and you have to believe it’s been quoted correctly and any other comments/ promises made have to be credible and correct for the market your booking is in. 

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Based upon reports on this board concerning other cruise lines, the less transparent setting of prices and specials is becoming closer to the industry standard.

 

In my experience this is how most airlines now operate. requiring a constant attention to fees in order to catch a "deal" as it fleetingly might occur through some algorithmic alchemy.

 

Perhaps, as with flights, someone will now create an app that will allow you to follow prices on desired itineraries and advise as to the best time to commit. Otherwise you are just caught up in all the superfluous noise.

 

 

 

 

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Interesting certainly here the airline analogy is interesting. Now with over capacity on many of the routes we use we book later on now unless it’s reward flights. Used to book as soon as practicable but it’s now not worth it. I now see the same philosophy with cruises given how many new ships are coming in the next few years. 

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I really do hate these pricing games that Azamara are playing and it has definitely put me off booking future cruises with them. Normally I would have 2/3 Azamara cruises booked for next year by now, but I only have one and I have booked several cruises with other cruise lines. I have done four very enjoyable cruises since August this year and none of them have been with Azamara. That is very unusual for me. 

I want to pay a clear reasonable price, with  no “fake sales” and the knowledge that there won’t be extreme fire sales last minute. I don’t want a bargain basement price....just a fair price that is consistent for everyone. In that way the passenger group onboard should be the usual well travelled, pleasant group of people they always have been. Is that too much to ask? 
Someone said we “original passengers” have seen the best of Azamara and sadly, I think that is now true. I will miss the stellar onboard crew very much ...but unless the management ethos now in evidence changes drastically then I will be exploring my other cruising options. I will be very sad to do that as I really do love Azamara. 

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26 minutes ago, Lottie A said:

I really do hate these pricing games that Azamara are playing and it has definitely put me off booking future cruises with them. Normally I would have 2/3 Azamara cruises booked for next year by now, but I only have one and I have booked several cruises with other cruise lines. I have done four very enjoyable cruises since August this year and none of them have been with Azamara. That is very unusual for me. 

I want to pay a clear reasonable price, with  no “fake sales” and the knowledge that there won’t be extreme fire sales last minute. I don’t want a bargain basement price....just a fair price that is consistent for everyone. In that way the passenger group onboard should be the usual well travelled, pleasant group of people they always have been. Is that too much to ask? 
Someone said we “original passengers” have seen the best of Azamara and sadly, I think that is now true. I will miss the stellar onboard crew very much ...but unless the management ethos now in evidence changes drastically then I will be exploring my other cruising options. I will be very sad to do that as I really do love Azamara. 

The same as you, I also want to pay a transparent, reasonable price and no “fake sales”. I really like the onboard experience with Azamara and I am lucky to be boarding soon. I hope that the onboard experience will help me to recover my confidence on Azamara’s product.

Edited by travelberlin

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Azamara may have physically removed its casinos, but when you enter the future cruise bookings offices on the ships, you are pretty much gambling and the house charges you the non-refundable portion of your deposit to play.  You book early on when prices are high, gambling that there will be some real price reduction down the line.  In the meantime, you really want to do that cruise or itinerary and may book a less costlier version on another line, but have to check the Azamara prices more often than you'd like and then have to annoy your travel agent when you do find a price drop.  This is incredibly inefficient from an administrative cost basis on so many sides.  As much as I don't like the process of buying a car,  I do like knowing, going in, that I'm in a real negotiation and have a good idea what I should be paying and come out with a deal or no deal. It's definitely more of a gamble with cruise lines, and particularly Azamara where you leave future cruise office with something to lose and you are never really sure what your price will be.  Nobody can possibly leave "Fernando's Casino" knowing whether they will actually be on that next cruise.  If they want to sell cruises, they should charge the lowest price they charged (prior to final payment) on the previous year's itinerary for that cruise, factoring in a percentage increase that reflects their real cost of doing business (4 to 5%).  That would be a great way to reward loyalty and help fill up the ships at the same time.  

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32 minutes ago, Lottie A said:

I really do hate these pricing games that Azamara are playing and it has definitely put me off booking future cruises with them. Normally I would have 2/3 Azamara cruises booked for next year by now, but I only have one and I have booked several cruises with other cruise lines. I have done four very enjoyable cruises since August this year and none of them have been with Azamara. That is very unusual for me. 

I want to pay a clear reasonable price, with  no “fake sales” and the knowledge that there won’t be extreme fire sales last minute. I don’t want a bargain basement price....just a fair price that is consistent for everyone. In that way the passenger group onboard should be the usual well travelled, pleasant group of people they always have been. Is that too much to ask? 
Someone said we “original passengers” have seen the best of Azamara and sadly, I think that is now true. I will miss the stellar onboard crew very much ...but unless the management ethos now in evidence changes drastically then I will be exploring my other cruising options. I will be very sad to do that as I really do love Azamara. 

Don’t give up Lottie.  There are still some deals. It’s just more difficult to home into them now.  See below link for one I’ve spotted.  In the days when I first cruised their ethos was “we want you to come and try us”. Now it’s more like “let’s see how much we can get you to pay”. 

 

In making this comment I would freely admit that Azamara weren’t charging enough a few years ago.  Now it’s gone completely the others way.  Somewhere sensible would be good.  

 

https://booking.azamaraclubcruises.com/ibe/holiday?s=NJMXX20191208081720657&paxCounts=1A-0T-0C-0I,&childAges=&baseProductType=CRU&cruiseOnly=true&departureDate=20200418&lang=en&company=LON&division=LONDIR&brand=AZA&distChannel=W&currency=GBP&accessible=false&roomWise=true&searchPriceFeed=false&clientId=-1&clientGroup=Direct&subSearchType=A&productCode=TMD&useFeed=false&cabinCount=1&depGateway=LHR&sourceCountry=GB&ship=PR&ppgr=true&cruLine=AZA

 

Phil

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1 hour ago, uktog said:

Interesting certainly here the airline analogy is interesting. Now with over capacity on many of the routes we use we book later on now unless it’s reward flights. Used to book as soon as practicable but it’s now not worth it. I now see the same philosophy with cruises given how many new ships are coming in the next few years. 

 

Good point about the number of new cruise ships that are about to be deployed.

 

I wonder how much cross fertilization, some might suggest "contamination", there is between the personnel and philosophy of various elements of the travel industry. That influence might be particularly evident in the application of computers to create "efficiencies". We have seen that in the new stateroom upgrade policy.

 

Overall, I think that customer loyalty isn't exactly a priority in many branches of tourism.

 

Nor, for that matter, does it seem to be an emphasis in much of the service industry in general. Perhaps those in the know can tell us if MBA programmes now reflect or augment that seeming shift. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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We just booked a 2021 Greece and Turkey cruise I’d been watching for a few weeks. With the current special, our TA got us a CC suite for just over $800 total per day. Not as good as we’d paid several years ago, but for us and for what is a great itinerary, we pulled the trigger. I’ll definitely keep an eye on the price going forward, but It’s in a range that I’m comfortable with, particularly as we don’t enjoy the MDR and eat at the specialties every day.

 

I wouldn’t have heard about the special if I wasn’t following this thread, as I received nothing from AZ.

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4 hours ago, excitedofharpenden said:

Don’t give up Lottie.  There are still some deals. It’s just more difficult to home into them now.  See below link for one I’ve spotted.  In the days when I first cruised their ethos was “we want you to come and try us”. Now it’s more like “let’s see how much we can get you to pay”. 

 

In making this comment I would freely admit that Azamara weren’t charging enough a few years ago.  Now it’s gone completely the others way.  Somewhere sensible would be good.  

 

https://booking.azamaraclubcruises.com/ibe/holiday?s=NJMXX20191208081720657&paxCounts=1A-0T-0C-0I,&childAges=&baseProductType=CRU&cruiseOnly=true&departureDate=20200418&lang=en&company=LON&division=LONDIR&brand=AZA&distChannel=W&currency=GBP&accessible=false&roomWise=true&searchPriceFeed=false&clientId=-1&clientGroup=Direct&subSearchType=A&productCode=TMD&useFeed=false&cabinCount=1&depGateway=LHR&sourceCountry=GB&ship=PR&ppgr=true&cruLine=AZA

 

Phil

That cruise is a very reasonable price Phil. Unfortunately not an itinerary I’d want to do now as I have been to all the ports many times before, but for someone who hasn’t then it’s a bargain. 

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1 hour ago, Lottie A said:

That cruise is a very reasonable price Phil. Unfortunately not an itinerary I’d want to do now as I have been to all the ports many times before, but for someone who hasn’t then it’s a bargain. 

Well you've been to most places Lottie so trying to find an itinerary at the right price might be a bit difficult!  For me I'm happy to have the ship as a destination. Every so often an itinerary pops into my head that I'd really like to do, but even then I have a limit as to what I'll pay. 

 

Phil 

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10 minutes ago, excitedofharpenden said:

Well you've been to most places Lottie so trying to find an itinerary at the right price might be a bit difficult!  For me I'm happy to have the ship as a destination. Every so often an itinerary pops into my head that I'd really like to do, but even then I have a limit as to what I'll pay. 

 

Phil 

True, I have been to a lot of places Phil (but not quite as many as you!) but I would really like to do something like the Greek Islands cruise we all did a few years ago for late summer or early autumn 2020 or 2021. It was such a lovely itinerary but the Greek Islands do seem very expensive nowadays...and not just on Azamara either. I nearly passed out with shock at the price when getting a solo quote for a Corinth Canal Cruise on Fred Olsen! 
 

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1 hour ago, excitedofharpenden said:

I love the Greek Islands and to be honest can go back again and again. I went through the Corinth on Windstar. Amazing!

 

Phil 

I’d love to go through the Corinth Canal - we’ve stood on the bridge and watched small ships go through.

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17 minutes ago, Host Grandma Cruising said:

I’d love to go through the Corinth Canal - we’ve stood on the bridge and watched small ships go through.

I did a tour that included a view from the top, but going through it on a ship was incredible. Highly recommended. Unfortunately Azamara ships, even though small by cruise ship standards aren't small enough. Do a tour on a boat that takes you through if you can't take a cruise.  A very different perspective. The ruins at Corinth are wonderful too. 

 

Phil 

DBDAF90C-31C9-4CE8-BA03-6F6204E3F336.jpeg

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