Slippery Slope for QE and the rest of the fleet.

[Elephant1151]

We are on QE Cape Town to Melbourne late sitting the MDR has been very quiet lots of empty tables. The Golden Lion has been busy with evening meals.  Only 500 of us in transit from Fremantle it will be interesting to see if it changes with the new passengers and the amended dress code.

[LittleFish1976]

27 minutes ago, Docker123 said:

The actual letter in my stateroom today

 

 

 

That's great to actually see the letter. I'm amused to see that Cunard's idea of the 'regional nuances' to dining include 1st sitting being 'nursery tea'. I can't imagine sitting down for dinner at 5.45pm when nightfall is another two or three hours away (!)(depending on whether southern or northern Australia)  and the temperature outside still conducive to a late swim or pre-dinner drink on the deck.

 

I'd be interested to hear what your fellow passengers think of this, in particular those who've sailed with Cunard before.

[ToadOfToadHall]

7 hours ago, NSWP said:

ONYA BAZ. This is what they need on Cunard.

Tom Selleck has put some weight on!

[Se1lad]

1 hour ago, LittleFish1976 said:

I can't imagine sitting down for dinner at 5.45pm when nightfall is another two or three hours away (!)(depending on whether southern or northern Australia)  and the temperature outside still conducive to a late swim or pre-dinner drink on the deck.

 

I'd be interested to hear what your fellow passengers think of this, in particular those who've sailed with Cunard before.

Im surprised it’s so early too - who would want to have dinner at 5.45?  I don’t recall evening dining in Australia being that early when I visited - though my experience is limited only to Sydney.

 

regarding the dress code change - does anyone know how busy the Oz cruises have been?  I can’t imagine Cunard have instigated this change purely to annoy their traditional passenger base - they obviously think this change will increase their revenue.

[ToadOfToadHall]

1 hour ago, Docker123 said:

The actual letter in my stateroom today

 

 

 

So Cunard say men do not need to wear a jacket on Smart Attire evenings because of the "warmer evening". Fair enough. And yet they still need to wear one on Gala Nights. So either Cunard can control the weather by making it cooler on said Gala Evening, or that is a blatant lie.  You can't cite warm weather as a reason on one evening  but not the next. 

[exlondoner]

31 minutes ago, ToadOfToadHall said:

 

So Cunard say men do not need to wear a jacket on Smart Attire evenings because of the "warmer evening". Fair enough. And yet they still need to wear one on Gala Nights. So either Cunard can control the weather by making it cooler on said Gala Evening, or that is a blatant lie.  You can't cite warm weather as a reason on one evening  but not the next. 

 

It doesn't seem that unreasonable to me. Gala evenings often come at the end of sea days, when the movement of the ship,usually supplies some sort of cooling breeze, and people may have spent the days around the ship being not very energetic. Smart attire evenings often follow port days when people have been getting hot and frazzled on land, where it usually seems warmer anyway. So it sort of makes some sense, particularly for those on the early sitting. Maybe.

[exlondoner]

38 minutes ago, Se1lad said:

Im surprised it’s so early too - who would want to have dinner at 5.45?  I don’t recall evening dining in Australia being that early when I visited - though my experience is limited only to Sydney.

 

Perhaps they are trying to encourage more people to opt for the second sitting?

[ToadOfToadHall]

20 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

 

It doesn't seem that unreasonable to me. Gala evenings often come at the end of sea days, when the movement of the ship,usually supplies some sort of cooling breeze, and people may have spent the days around the ship being not very energetic. Smart attire evenings often follow port days when people have been getting hot and frazzled on land, where it usually seems warmer anyway. So it sort of makes some sense, particularly for those on the early sitting. Maybe.

 

Well, you are correct in what you say regarding when Gala nights are compared to other nights (i.e. sea days v non sea days).

 

But I think "maybe" sums it up very well - sort of a "hmmmm... really?" chin stroker and a slightly doubting look on one's face.

 

 

[Se1lad]

24 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

 

Perhaps they are trying to encourage more people to opt for the second sitting?

Good point - with the second sitting coming forward to 8pm I can see this being a more popular option.  I wouldn’t be happy though if I was not able to get the second sitting and had to dine at 5.45 though!

[Bell Boy]

1 hour ago, Se1lad said:

Im surprised it’s so early too - who would want to have dinner at 5.45?  I don’t recall evening dining in Australia being that early when I visited - though my experience is limited only to Sydney.

 

regarding the dress code change - does anyone know how busy the Oz cruises have been?  I can’t imagine Cunard have instigated this change purely to annoy their traditional passenger base - they obviously think this change will increase their revenue.

On all Alaska cruises earlier this year, first sitting in the Britannia was at 5.30pm ( second at 7.45pm)  As you can imagine the Alaska itinerary is very port intensive,  almost everyone are on shoreside tours . There was an uproar from the majority of guests.  

[Solent Richard]

17 hours ago, bazzaw said:

I am an Aussie - have done two x "3 Queens" cruises starting out from Southampton with LOTS of Aussies onboard - plus a cruise from USA to Australia . My observation has been that the Aussies have adhered to the dress code completely. I have never sailed with Cunard in Australian waters so can't comment on the situation there. But - in general Aussies are very casual dress-wise by nature and also because of the summer heat here. I have been on cruises where the ship's airconditioning has not coped - and frankly, if I become uncomfortable, I will remove my jacket !! Most cruises around Australia have relaxed dress codes - so I can imagine that Cunard wants their piece of the lucrative pie known as the Australian cruise market. I will be sailing on the 38 day Japan to Alaska cruise (basically three back-to-back shorter cruises combined)  and am expecting the "usual" dress code. 

 

 

'...Most cruises around Australia have relaxed dress codes - so I can imagine that Cunard wants their piece of the lucrative pie known as the Australian cruise market...'

 

Nicely summed up Sir. 👍

[Colin_Cameron]

5 hours ago, Se1lad said:

 - they obviously think this change will increase their revenue.

It won't do that if they keep this a secret until you board the ship.

[Se1lad]

28 minutes ago, Colin_Cameron said:

It won't do that if they keep this a secret until you board the ship.

That’s why I was asking how busy the cruises had been - it may be with a view to filling up future cruises.

 

However I take your point - they need to reflect this on their website so people know what they are booking !

[Lakesregion]

Use of the word smart or elegant and attire in the same sentence is an oxymoron in my opinion. The only way one can come close to "Smart" or elegant attire and be casual is to wear extremely expensive clothing. Silks and linens as examples.Otherwise casual is neither  smart nor elegant as it can be found on any golf course and in most any discount shop around the world.

Edited December 6, 2019 by Lakesregion
afterthought

[Victoria2]

1 hour ago, Lakesregion said:

Use of the word smart or elegant and attire in the same sentence is an oxymoron in my opinion. The only way one can come close to "Smart" or elegant attire and be casual is to wear extremely expensive clothing. Silks and linens as examples.Otherwise casual is neither  smart nor elegant as it can be found on any golf course and in most any discount shop around the world.

As I think Cunard's usage of the word ''attire'' is more ''clothing'' than ''formal/ decorative'', I would say most passengers adhere to a dress code which demands a certain decent standard and is upheld by the majority.

 

Nothing wrong with discount shops. I picked up a couple of fairly decent dresses at C21 the last time I was in New York, depending of course, if you consider DvF, golfing wear or smart casual dinner attire.

[Balticdream]

Don't they mean complement rather than compliment?

[Lakesregion]

The real issue here is not adhering to a dress code but maintaining and even enhancing the ambiance of a ship. If the ship offers hairy leg contests, pub claws with buckets of beer for sale around the pool and a lot of three day beer cruises one will get the ambiance that fits such events. On the other hand if the ship offers afternoon tea (a royal invention) grand traditional decor and staff if full fig at all times, to dress to a lower standard diminishes the overall ambiance and eventually as the line keeps lowering the standard, certain amenities can  and will be done away with and the decor will slide into that found on land where people dress to the lower standards. Carnival no longer has linen on their tables in the dining rooms and even does not offer a full compliment of flatware any longer. Other lines offer carnival rides. Go along with the lowering of standards and this will eventually happen. It took NCL less than five years to reduce their line from one of general elegance to baseball hats and t's in the dining room in the evening.

 

I am but a lone voice in the wilderness of wolves howling for casual and I know I am beaten but will continue to don my best bib and tucker each and every time I sail.

[Germancruiser]

No- Lakesregion- you are not a lone voice- there are more- me included- NCL- and the cohorts will attract there clientel- and I wish them all the fun- each to his own. When ships become floading camping grounds - cruising is in the past for me. I keep my hopes up that at least a certain standard will maintained- at least for X, HAL, Cunard.

The way RCCI went- i don´t really know- there ships are different story.

 

[NSWP]

Sure 5.45pm for sitting in the MDR is a little early, but if you were on Princess Cruise Line, First sitting is now 5pm with second sitting @ 7.15pm.  5pm is almost afternoon tea time, not dinner !! To me anyway.   I have done many Princess cruises, mostly with Americans and many of them do like to eat early.  So perhaps Carnival is bending to the wishes of the 'early diners' by bringing back 1st sitting to 5.45pm.

[NSWP]

19 hours ago, ToadOfToadHall said:

Tom Selleck has put some weight on!

It is actually Daryl Brohmann doing the modelling, retired Australian Rugby League Player, he has been modelling for Lowes stores for many a year, good quality 'made in China Clothing' just like your Primark.🤣

[Victoria2]

10 hours ago, Lakesregion said:

The real issue here is not adhering to a dress code but maintaining and even enhancing the ambiance of a ship. If the ship offers hairy leg contests, pub claws with buckets of beer for sale around the pool and a lot of three day beer cruises one will get the ambiance that fits such events. On the other hand if the ship offers afternoon tea (a royal invention) grand traditional decor and staff if full fig at all times, to dress to a lower standard diminishes the overall ambiance and eventually as the line keeps lowering the standard, certain amenities can  and will be done away with and the decor will slide into that found on land where people dress to the lower standards. Carnival no longer has linen on their tables in the dining rooms and even does not offer a full compliment of flatware any longer. Other lines offer carnival rides. Go along with the lowering of standards and this will eventually happen. It took NCL less than five years to reduce their line from one of general elegance to baseball hats and t's in the dining room in the evening.

 

I am but a lone voice in the wilderness of wolves howling for casual and I know I am beaten but will continue to don my best bib and tucker each and every time I sail.

QM2 could be termed grand but her sisters most definitely can't. They are both elegant and comfortable, but not grand. 

 

The Cunard tradition of afternoon tea [not a royal invention] is very popular and the sight of wait staff in uniform certainly goes down well in many quarters but that does not mean one has to compliment their attire by  dressing to the same standard. The Golden Age is long gone although I get the impression a  Downton approach of day wear to full evening dress would suit the odd Cunard passenger or two.

 

I don't have a crystal ball to actually predict what will happen but I cannot see Cunard ships sliding into evening caps and tees, and dodgems and climbing walls. I think most passengers strive to dress well in the evening as it's part of the fun of choosing to cruise with Cunard,  and the concept of lowering the tone, or standards, is unfair to those who possibly don't have the wardrobe to do a Downton. Significantly, the model I talked to who was involved in the filming on Victoria this past September, was wearing  clothes ''from wardrobe'' so when browsing  Cunard literature for guidance on what to wear, bear in mind ''wardrobe'' was  the source of some, maybe even all, the clothes worn. Oh that we all had ''wardrobe'' at our disposal.

 

The C21st is here to stay and life has adapted. The more casual market is being catered for in significant areas of the world but in the main,  resort casual day wear and appropriate evening attire are the order of the day and as long as passengers look well dressed, the tone is being upheld and those who choose to dress in a casual way, can keep to the designated areas of the ship where the more casual approach is welcomed. 

[Lakesregion]

9 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

QM2 could be termed grand but her sisters most definitely can't. They are both elegant and comfortable, but not grand. 

 

The Cunard tradition of afternoon tea [not a royal invention] is very popular and the sight of wait staff in uniform certainly goes down well in many quarters but that does not mean one has to compliment their attire by  dressing to the same standard. The Golden Age is long gone although I get the impression a  Downton approach of day wear to full evening dress would suit the odd Cunard passenger or two.

 

I don't have a crystal ball to actually predict what will happen but I cannot see Cunard ships sliding into evening caps and tees, and dodgems and climbing walls. I think most passengers strive to dress well in the evening as it's part of the fun of choosing to cruise with Cunard,  and the concept of lowering the tone, or standards, is unfair to those who possibly don't have the wardrobe to do a Downton. Significantly, the model I talked to who was involved in the filming on Victoria this past September, was wearing  clothes ''from wardrobe'' so when browsing  Cunard literature for guidance on what to wear, bear in mind ''wardrobe'' was  the source of some, maybe even all, the clothes worn. Oh that we all had ''wardrobe'' at our disposal.

 

The C21st is here to stay and life has adapted. The more casual market is being catered for in significant areas of the world but in the main,  resort casual day wear and appropriate evening attire are the order of the day and as long as passengers look well dressed, the tone is being upheld and those who choose to dress in a casual way, can keep to the designated areas of the ship where the more casual approach is welcomed. 

As I stated above I realize that I have lost the battle but if one thinks Cunard will maintain a level of decorum above the casual atmosphere of the rest of the ships afloat one is whistling past the grave yard. All one has to do is dig out past years posts on HAL, NCL, Princess, Celebrity etc. and even Cunard to see how passengers poo pooded the dropping of standards. A 2008 sailing on the QE2 shows that almost all nights at sea were formal and other evenings were jacket and tie, now 11 years later formal evenings have been reduced to two per week and no tie is needed and now on the QE no jackets. See how easy it is to keep dropping the standards."Never happen to my ships" and whoops look what happened. So do not fool yourself. Once the standards have begun to be lowered it is close to impossible to return to a better look. So enjoy what is left while it is left. And the few of us that "know" will still be dressed above the minimum allowed.

[Victoria2]

1 hour ago, Lakesregion said:

As I stated above I realize that I have lost the battle but if one thinks Cunard will maintain a level of decorum above the casual atmosphere of the rest of the ships afloat one is whistling past the grave yard. All one has to do is dig out past years posts on HAL, NCL, Princess, Celebrity etc. and even Cunard to see how passengers poo pooded the dropping of standards. A 2008 sailing on the QE2 shows that almost all nights at sea were formal and other evenings were jacket and tie, now 11 years later formal evenings have been reduced to two per week and no tie is needed and now on the QE no jackets. See how easy it is to keep dropping the standards."Never happen to my ships" and whoops look what happened. So do not fool yourself. Once the standards have begun to be lowered it is close to impossible to return to a better look. So enjoy what is left while it is left. And the few of us that "know" will still be dressed above the minimum allowed.

Although I'm not in the ''know'' I dress far and away above what you term ''the minimum'' because we enjoy dressing for dinner and are lucky to be able to do so, well.

 

However, there are those not as lucky and as long as the majority of passengers  dress to what you term ''the minimum'', Cunard will continue to sail relatively as is, and I will continue to enjoy sailing with them. Frequently.

[Lakesregion]

3 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

Although I'm not in the ''know'' I dress far and away above what you term ''the minimum'' because we enjoy dressing for dinner and are lucky to be able to do so, well.

 

However, there are those not as lucky and as long as the majority of passengers  dress to what you term ''the minimum'', Cunard will continue to sail relatively as is, and I will continue to enjoy sailing with them. Frequently.

There is lies the rub. today's "relatively as is" bears no relationship to the "relatively as is" of five years ago nor that of ten years ago and I predict today's "relatively as is" will bear no relationship to the codes five years hence. So enjoy "your relatively as is" while I plan to enjoy my remembrance of how it was and on an individual basis, no matter how many baseball hats there will be, one can still exercise.

[eroller]

More dumbing down of Cunard.  First the Australia market then fleet wide.  They have been edging towards this for some time now.  With a new ship coming online they will want to appeal to a broader audience.  The problem is ... formality, tradition, and structure are some of the key differentiators of Cunard to other lines.  Take those away and I might as well sail on Celebrity, Princess, and HAL.  
 

Cunard better figure out what it wants to be and who it wants to appeal to.  I feel they don’t have a lot of clear direction right now.  Everything seems to fall under P&O instead of having their own senior leadership and support staff.