Slippery Slope for QE and the rest of the fleet.

[Host Hattie]

This change doesn't have any effect on tie wearing, smart attire evenings were already tie optional and ties are still required on formal nights.

[Lakesregion]

1 hour ago, drkitkat123 said:

but how many really do dry-clean their ties regularly? And really what does a piece of cloth around ones neck add to decorum and dress-code?

Evidently no more than baseball hats, jeans, flip flops, t's and other excuses to not honor the ambiance in the ship.

[Lakesregion]

1 hour ago, drkitkat123 said:

but how many really do dry-clean their ties regularly? And really what does a piece of cloth around ones neck add to decorum and dress-code?

Most people wear their tie "under a collar" around their necks therefore it does not acquire an infestation. However, if one wear a tie with a t, then all bets are off and I am sure there are those that think that will satisfy the evenings requirements for elegant nights.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, drkitkat123 said:

but how many really do dry-clean their ties regularly? And really what does a piece of cloth around ones neck add to decorum and dress-code?

It adds to decorum and dress code because it is, and has been for years, an essential part of a man’s being fully dressed.  You might as well ask why intact (as opposed to frayed and torn) blue jeans cannot be paired with a hoodie for formal, or elegant, or whatever-you-want-to-call-it, night rather than a dinner jacket or dark suit.

 

If there is to be a “dress code” of any sort, it must involve a standard - and not just whatever a Schulz wants to throw on.

[navybankerteacher]

2 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

It adds to decorum and dress code because it is, and has been for years, an essential part of a man’s being fully dressed.  You might as well ask why intact (as opposed to frayed and torn) blue jeans cannot be paired with a hoodie for formal, or elegant, or whatever-you-want-to-call-it, night rather than a dinner jacket or dark suit.

 

If there is to be a “dress code” of any sort, it must involve a standard - and not just whatever a Schulz wants to throw on.

Sorry , no “Schulz” intended - I meant schlub - there was no hidden ethnic slur intended - rather an arrogant, out of control spell-check outstepping its bounds.

[siforest65]

I’m a relative newbie to Cunard having only done 4 cruises. Tbh I don’t find putting a jacket on a great hardship. I have come across people that have consciously avoided the MDR most nights and even with the no jacket rule I believe still would not want to conform (non collared shirts, jeans etc). The only time I find the jacket a pain is on the last night and planning packing/getting luggage picked up from outside the room etc.

 

[Victoria2]

22 hours ago, drkitkat123 said:

Eagerly awaiting our first QE cruise in January.  Love dressing up but wearing a tie is what bugs me most. Seriously, how anachronistic is it wearing a germ infested slip of material around one's neck, especially in a warm climate?

Anybody new to Cunard [like yourself?] and thinking of trialling the line might be put off reading the dress threads. 

 

I want the line to survive, preferably in its present state and so as relatively new to Cunard but frequent passengers [we made Diamond by nights quite quickly] here is the benefit of  my experience over the last few years of many weeks at sea per year, world cruise segments and separate cruises, hot and cold areas of the world,  on Victoria and Elizabeth.

 

The reality, as opposed to the aspirational. 

 

For evening wear, in general unless advised by the ship otherwise, gentlemen wear jackets- with or without ties; suits or Dj's [tux]  with appropriate neckwear, is worn for ''Gala'' nights. For ladies, evening trousers and lovely tops or  cocktail dresses are worn. Dresses which speak evening rather than day wear, are suitable and long  [think long rather than ball gown] dresses are very popular for Gala nights, but not obligatory. 

 

Those not wishing to conform to these easy standards  have a few designated areas of the ship were they can be more relaxed.

 

For daytime, think general resort casual, but swimwear isn't appropriate for public areas of the ship.

 

Ties are required for Gala nights. How many that will be for you I don't know but QE apparently is going more relaxed for her sojourn in the Southern Hemisphere and so Gala night ties only [the same as any other cruise in reality, for many]. I hope you have a wonderful time and your first time will be the start of many Cunard cruises.

[exlondoner]

3 hours ago, siforest65 said:

I’m a relative newbie to Cunard having only done 4 cruises. Tbh I don’t find putting a jacket on a great hardship. I have come across people that have consciously avoided the MDR most nights and even with the no jacket rule I believe still would not want to conform (non collared shirts, jeans etc). The only time I find the jacket a pain is on the last night and planning packing/getting luggage picked up from outside the room etc.

 

 

Goodness, I should have thought the one time one really needed a jacket was for arrival at Southampton. Even in midsummer it always seems chilly. In fact, I usually take my mac, even on Med. cruises, just to be prepared for 8am Southampton. 😀

Edited December 10, 2019 by exlondoner
Pressed send early

[exlondoner]

On 12/9/2019 at 12:52 AM, NSWP said:

Very smart, who is the Chav behind you? Not dressed like a Cunarder should, hoody, baseball cap.

 

 

I'm sure this is a joke. Because calling someone unknown to one a chav, based on an (inaccurate) assessment of their dress, is surely more graceless than failing to wear a tie as required.

[exlondoner]

12 hours ago, drkitkat123 said:

but how many really do dry-clean their ties regularly? And really what does a piece of cloth around ones neck add to decorum and dress-code?

 

I think ties look rather nice, but I don't have to wear them.

 

As to dry cleaning, presumably those worried about germ infestation do so regularly.

[Fifer]

5 hours ago, exlondoner said:

As to dry cleaning, presumably those worried about germ infestation do so regularly.

Otherwise they may look like proper charlies, as we say in the UK.

[Germancruiser]

I really don´t sea ( see) the problem wearing a jacket- i wear jackets for boarding- for debarkation and the non formal nights- such a comfortable thing to wear and a nice cover - as mentioned when debarking in bad or cold weather- or even - in Southampton. LOL!

What the heck is a " proper charlie"?

[Underwatr]

On 12/7/2019 at 7:14 PM, Jack E Dawson said:

Embarkation Day 1950’s

 

Ever see what men wore to a baseball game in the 1950s?

[Fifer]

7 hours ago, Germancruiser said:

What the heck is a " proper charlie"?

 

In the UK, according to the Macmillan online dictionary, it is a word used to indicate that someone is unintelligent, stupid or silly; a fool, buffoon or clown.  Its origins are said to be from the cockney rhyming slang expression, Charlie Smirke (= Berk, which in turn is earlier rhyming slang; Berkley Hunt = the unmentionable - think about that next time you call someone a charlie or a berk...). Charlie Smirke was an English jockey, who was a leading rider and racing celebrity from the 1930s-50s.

 

As so often with Cockney rhyming slang, the logic of the derivation is not always obvious.  Whilst current levels of usage are hard to determine, it remains widely recognisable in the UK.  The connotations of its origins are clearly unfortunate, however they were not of my doing, so I hope no-one feels it necessary to make a song and dance about them.

 

There are, of course, alternative uses of the term 'charlie'; cocaine, for example, and as shorthand for the Viet Cong during the Vietnam War.  The latter usage is said to be as a consequence of Victor Charlie being used as the military code name for the Viet Cong and subsequently being shortened to Charlie.

 

That is enough language history, I think, now can we get back to dress code infractions and dining disasters?

 

[exlondoner]

10 minutes ago, Fifer said:

 

In the UK, according to the Macmillan online dictionary, it is a word used to indicate that someone is unintelligent, stupid or silly; a fool, buffoon or clown.  Its origins are said to be from the cockney rhyming slang expression, Charlie Smirke (= Berk, which in turn is earlier rhyming slang; Berkley Hunt = the unmentionable - think about that next time you call someone a charlie or a berk...). Charlie Smirke was an English jockey, who was a leading rider and racing celebrity from the 1930s-50s.

 

As so often with Cockney rhyming slang, the logic of the derivation is not always obvious.  Whilst current levels of usage are hard to determine, it remains widely recognisable in the UK.  The connotations of its origins are clearly unfortunate, however they were not of my doing, so I hope no-one feels it necessary to make a song and dance about them.

 

There are, of course, alternative uses of the term 'charlie'; cocaine, for example, and as shorthand for the Viet Cong during the Vietnam War.  The latter usage is said to be as a consequence of Victor Charlie being used as the military code name for the Viet Cong and subsequently being shortened to Charlie.

 

That is enough language history, I think, now can we get back to dress code infractions and dining disasters?

 

 

I'm vaguely disaappointed that it has nothing to do with the song Champagne Charlie, the first performance of which caused considerable displeasure because the songwriter/performer appeared in the wrong sort of Top Hat. Isn't that splendid?😀 Expectations of dress clearly have a long history.

[siforest65]

On 12/10/2019 at 10:18 AM, exlondoner said:

 

Goodness, I should have thought the one time one really needed a jacket was for arrival at Southampton. Even in midsummer it always seems chilly. In fact, I usually take my mac, even on Med. cruises, just to be prepared for 8am Southampton. 😀

when we got off our recent Canary island cruise in Southampton, an suit jacket or blazer would have been as useful as a chocolate fireguard. A full rain proof and insulated jacket was required 🙂

[Germancruiser]

Thanks a lot, Fifer , for that great explanatioin- and for the time you took telling us!

Very interessting. I had no idea that it also had something to do with the war in Vietnam- i read about " Charlie Victor" though!

I don´t thing anybody makes a song and dance of using that word.

Some people tend to make a song and dance about everything these days, though!

As the bard so aptly wrote- " Much ado about nothing"!

Back to the dresscode. LOL!

Edited December 13, 2019 by Germancruiser

[ivanidea]

If the reason for not wearing a jacket is due to the warmer climate, does that mean Cunard will be turning off the air conditioning?

 

Cruising in the Caribbean, I've found the temperature on board to be fine for wearing a jacket.

[Bell Boy]

Exactly !  Don't know what the problem is. Been taking cruises around Australia and the Pacific for years on Cunard and never known all this nonsense about jackets .  

 

Sailed the QE2 for years !  all around Japan , and  they never had to adjust dining times . 

[Victoria2]

It would be nice occasionally if those who disparage others' experiences, could just for a minute think, they weren't there at that particular time and so their opposite definite opinions might not be totally accurate.

 

To those who are showing disbelief at the thought of non ambient temperature in parts of the ship, have you ever sailed  in Victoria's Queen's Grill, when the Maitre'd has had the long velveteen table underskirt removed for a few days to try and aid air flow for diners in a  part of the restaurant where the aircon can't lower the temperature enough?

 

I have. On a few occasions. In the Pacific and in the Indian Ocean. I don't see why this shouldn't happen in other areas of the ship too. The Britannia restaurant looks to be busy and busy rooms can get  very hot, even in cooler climes.

 

I accept there are some passengers who hate wearing their jackets and will take them off as soon as they are able even when there's no health reason to do so. That I disagree with 100% but  please,  try and accept from one whose husband  upholds the 100% jacket wearing code, just because you haven't experienced a situation doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There are odd times when it's just too darned hot for some people, especially those with weight or health issues and rather than expect them to leave their table  before they expire  because of  less than efficient air con at that time, jackets are removed with the  acceptance of the staff.

[Solent Richard]

10 hours ago, Victoria2 said:

It would be nice occasionally if those who disparage others' experiences, could just for a minute think, they weren't there at that particular time and so their opposite definite opinions might not be totally accurate.

 

To those who are showing disbelief at the thought of non ambient temperature in parts of the ship, have you ever sailed  in Victoria's Queen's Grill, when the Maitre'd has had the long velveteen table underskirt removed for a few days to try and aid air flow for diners in a  part of the restaurant where the aircon can't lower the temperature enough?

 

I have. On a few occasions. In the Pacific and in the Indian Ocean. I don't see why this shouldn't happen in other areas of the ship too. The Britannia restaurant looks to be busy and busy rooms can get  very hot, even in cooler climes.

 

I accept there are some passengers who hate wearing their jackets and will take them off as soon as they are able even when there's no health reason to do so. That I disagree with 100% but  please,  try and accept from one whose husband  upholds the 100% jacket wearing code, just because you haven't experienced a situation doesn't mean it doesn't happen. There are odd times when it's just too darned hot for some people, especially those with weight or health issues and rather than expect them to leave their table  before they expire  because of  less than efficient air con at that time, jackets are removed with the  acceptance of the staff.

 

Yes, I have sailed in the on Queen Victoria in both the Queens Grill and Princess Grill across the Indian Ocean and in the Caribbean (and Queen Mary 2 across the Pacific) and have never had any problem wearing a jacket in the widest range of temperatures or conditions: but I put it down to personal character, quality jackets worn for the occasion, and a willingness to maintain the ambiance for other like minded guests.

 

I did smile at your experience of the  Maitre'd 'having the long velveteen table underskirt removed for a few days to try and aid air flow for diners', presumably, I thought,  to cool the parts beneath the table we shouldn't perhaps be discussing. 😅😅

 

Meanwhile of course the perceived Grills aircon problem should not exist in any of the Britannia Restaurants as there are considerably higher deck-head (ceiling) levels to dissipate hot air.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Solent Richard

[Solent Richard]

15 hours ago, Bell Boy said:

Exactly !  Don't know what the problem is. Been taking cruises around Australia and the Pacific for years on Cunard and never known all this nonsense about jackets .  

 

Sailed the QE2 for years !  all around Japan , and  they never had to adjust dining times . 

 

Exactly Bell Boy. Fully agree with you.

[rakkor]

There was certaintly no issue with the Britannia dining toom being too hot on our recent Caribbean cruise, the temperature on board was noticably cooler as the outside temperature increased, on the crossing it seemed warmer, as there wasn't any aircon on.

[Desert Cruisers]

I've followed this thread with interest.  We have completed 11 sailings - mostly transatlantic - on Cunard.  We also sailed in Alaska this past June on the QE.  When we sail Cunard, we follow the dress code.  But, honestly, we aren't sure that we would do more than a 15-day cruise on Cunard because of the dress code. We also have friends who will go on Crystal but not Cunard specifically because of the dress code.  They don't dress like slobs.  One of the things that we like about Crystal, Azamara, and Oceania is that the dress code is upscale country club.  In fact, after just sailing on Azamara after getting off the QM2 transatlantic, we thought that many of the people on Azamara were better dressed for dinner than folks that we saw on the QM2.  Rumpled trousers, a mismatched jacket, and gym shoes/trainers will get you into the dining room on the QM2.  It meets the "requirement" for informal nights but is it really so much better than a nice country club look?

 

I know that there will be folks who respond negatively.  But, times are a-changing.  Cunard is surely aware that it's missing the boat in attracting upmarket folks who want a less dressy environment.  We and most of our friends are retired or semi-retired, not millenials.   

[exlondoner]

59 minutes ago, Desert Cruisers said:

I've followed this thread with interest.  We have completed 11 sailings - mostly transatlantic - on Cunard.  We also sailed in Alaska this past June on the QE.  When we sail Cunard, we follow the dress code.  But, honestly, we aren't sure that we would do more than a 15-day cruise on Cunard because of the dress code. We also have friends who will go on Crystal but not Cunard specifically because of the dress code.  They don't dress like slobs.  One of the things that we like about Crystal, Azamara, and Oceania is that the dress code is upscale country club.  In fact, after just sailing on Azamara after getting off the QM2 transatlantic, we thought that many of the people on Azamara were better dressed for dinner than folks that we saw on the QM2.  Rumpled trousers, a mismatched jacket, and gym shoes/trainers will get you into the dining room on the QM2.  It meets the "requirement" for informal nights but is it really so much better than a nice country club look?

 

I know that there will be folks who respond negatively.  But, times are a-changing.  Cunard is surely aware that it's missing the boat in attracting upmarket folks who want a less dressy environment.  We and most of our friends are retired or semi-retired, not millenials.   

 

Having always lived in cities in the U.K., I have no idea what a country club is or even if we have them here. What is special about the way members of them dress?