Norwegian Star only designated smoking area deck 14 no elevator access

[Cruising Is Bliss]

A friend who uses a wheelchair full time is on the Norwegian Star right now. When they boarded the ship, the only designated smoking area was on deck 14 accessible only by a flight of stairs. No elevator access. They're long time cruisers who have been on this ship before and were told this is a new corporate policy that started with the prior cruise. 

 

She discovered this before the ship sailed. Was told her only recourse was to complain to corporate after the cruise was over. Hah. No. Ship was still in port so she called Norwegian corporate. Many many transfers later, for this cruise only, corporate has ruled that non-ambulatory guests who can't do stairs can smoke in the casino at any time, don't have to gamble. Available for smoking even when the casino is closed. She was assured all casino employees would be told of the change. Nope, they hadn't been. Today is the first port day and in the closed casino she got an extended rude lecture from a floor supervisor who refused to check with Guest Services until after they finally wound down.

 

Yes, I know smoking is an issue and some people want smoking banned at all times, everywhere. Not the issue here. She has no problem at all smoking only in designated areas. If a business in the US (departure port was Miami) and it allows smoking anywhere, that needs to be in an accessible area. Accessibility is accessibility all the time, not just when a customer complains.

 

/signed/ Not a smoker, crappy lungs and sensitive to smoke, but I have friends who do smoke and are very considerate about when and where they smoke.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Cruising Is Bliss
spelling

[1025cruise]

Not a smoker, but I agree that smoking sections need to be accessible to all. Of course, I have read that for now, during embarkation that the Carnival Panorama will be completely smoke free. Embarkation is happening at the casino and since the ship will be refueling, no outdoor smoking.

[chengkp75]

On 12/9/2019 at 3:46 AM, Cruising Is Bliss said:

If a business in the US (departure port was Miami) and it allows smoking anywhere, that needs to be in an accessible area. Accessibility is accessibility all the time, not just when a customer complains.

Despite NCL having its corporate headquarters in the US, the ship flies the flag of the Bahamas, so their laws apply.  SCOTUS ruled in Spector v. NCL that accessibility only has to be built into a foreign flag ship, if it does not require major modifications to the ship, and that the ship's "internal policies and procedures" (in this case the smoking areas) do not fall within the purview of the ADA.  I agree it's not fair, but that's what happens when you sail on a foreign flag ship.

[GUT2407]

46 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Despite NCL having its corporate headquarters in the US, the ship flies the flag of the Bahamas, so their laws apply.  SCOTUS ruled in Spector v. NCL that accessibility only has to be built into a foreign flag ship, if it does not require major modifications to the ship, and that the ship's "internal policies and procedures" (in this case the smoking areas) do not fall within the purview of the ADA.  I agree it's not fair, but that's what happens when you sail on a foreign flag ship.

Can you explain an issue that wouldn’t fall within this exception I have seeit quoted as protecting hem from almost every requirement of the ADA

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, GUT2407 said:

Can you explain an issue that wouldn’t fall within this exception I have seeit quoted as protecting hem from almost every requirement of the ADA

Basically, the ruling in Spector says that they cannot discriminate against someone with a disability, and cannot deny accommodation to that person, nor charge that person more for an accessible cabin, and that there have to be accessible cabins available.  But you are right, that SCOTUS ruled that in the sense of "international amity" that the US cannot force it's laws on a foreign ship (in almost any category of ship operations internal to the vessel:  safety, accessibility, labor laws, etc) unless the Congress specifically legislates "extraterritorial jurisdiction", meaning that the US claims jurisdiction over it's citizens while on a foreign ship in international waters.  This "extraterritorial jurisdiction" is why the FBI investigates crimes against US citizens on cruise ships, while in international waters, but if the crime happened in some other country's waters, then it falls to that country and the flag state, and the US can only request "interested party" status in the investigation.

 

I was on the Norwegian Sky when we reflagged her to the Pride of Aloha under US flag, and we had to do quite a lot of work to make the ship meet the requirements of the ADA, even though she had been sailing out of the US for years.

[GUT2407]

22 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Basically, the ruling in Spector says that they cannot discriminate against someone with a disability, and cannot deny accommodation to that person, nor charge that person more for an accessible cabin, and that there have to be accessible cabins available.  But you are right, that SCOTUS ruled that in the sense of "international amity" that the US cannot force it's laws on a foreign ship (in almost any category of ship operations internal to the vessel:  safety, accessibility, labor laws, etc) unless the Congress specifically legislates "extraterritorial jurisdiction", meaning that the US claims jurisdiction over it's citizens while on a foreign ship in international waters.  This "extraterritorial jurisdiction" is why the FBI investigates crimes against US citizens on cruise ships, while in international waters, but if the crime happened in some other country's waters, then it falls to that country and the flag state, and the US can only request "interested party" status in the investigation.

 

I was on the Norwegian Sky when we reflagged her to the Pride of Aloha under US flag, and we had to do quite a lot of work to make the ship meet the requirements of the ADA, even though she had been sailing out of the US for years.

Thank you.